Is there any such thing as a "quality budget 45 Gov."?

Big Al · June 11, 2000, 06:16 PM

I've got a Glock 19 for spring/winter/fall carry, a Kel-Tec P32 for summer carry, and a 44 mag (rat brand) for hunting. I've been looking to get into the world of 45's, but I don't feel like shelling out 800-1500$ for a "custom" job. A friend of mine got a Norinco that looked pretty good for 150$ new from a gun shop, and he says it shoots as good as his Gold Cup. I'd like to stay away from the Chinese stuff, though, so what about a Charles Daly? Are they any good?

Or should I just go ahead and get a Glock 30/36?

------------------
Glock 19
S&W 629 Classic
KelTec P32

"Oh yeah? Well I talk LOOOUDLY! And I carry a BIIIGGER stick! And I'll use it, too." -Yoesemite Sam

VaughnT · June 11, 2000, 06:26 PM

A springfield armory Mil-Spec 1911 will cost you about $425-500, depending on where you get it. NIB, they are very cheap but very well made.

Auto-Ordinance also makes a mil-spec that is supposed to be well regarded, but I haven't spoken with anyone that owned one. They have just been bought out by Kahr Arms.

And if you like to gamble, you could try the IMI .45's that are being advertized in the gun mags. I don't know how they are as their website is very poor and they don't seem interested in working with you. That's my opinion, maybe not justified, but I'd stick with Springfield or AO for quality, customer service, and such.

------------------
When Reason Fails.....

jimmy · June 11, 2000, 06:28 PM

At one time I'd have said that Colt's 1991A1 was a quality, budget GM. Since Colt's semi-demise, however, the price that some dealers charge for 1991A1s has increased by a third, to about $600, leaving the "budget" criterion behind.

However, I've heard that there are still 1991A1s around, somewhere, for $450-475, a reasonable price. If so, I personally would go for one.

HTH.

1911Ford · June 11, 2000, 06:33 PM

You can get into A Springfield "Loaded" or a Para-Ordnance "Limited" for under $600 easily. Well, easily I guess depending on where you live. In my neck of the woods you can. Springfield and Para-Ordnance also make models that don't have all the goodies on them that you can get a little cheaper. A little over $500. If you are looking for cheaper than that I would look at the Charles Daily model.

Red Bull · June 11, 2000, 06:50 PM

Which Springfield is the standard military mil-spec version? I was looking to get a good standard 1911 that runs well and does not cost a fortune.

Are they fairly accurate out of the box?

1911Ford · June 11, 2000, 07:00 PM

go to
www.springfield-armory.com/pistol_top.html
shows all of there pisols. Don't let the retail price fool ya. Never seen one that high yet.

------------------
www.1911forum.com

Gremlin · June 11, 2000, 10:00 PM

Is five to six hundred dollars now considered a "budget 45 Gov.". Jeez, I need to get jobs where you guys work...

I thought 'budget' meant more like half that amount.

I own a Springfield Loaded and would reccomend it in a heartbeat. If someone was looking to spend in the 250 to 300 dollar range, I recently tried one of the 'new' Charles Daly's and it performed pretty well. The frame had few sharp edges and the finish was very even. The slide to frame fit was looser than my Springfield, but something's gotta give in order to cost less.

The Daly had no bells or whistles, it was just a plain jane, but I got to shoot a clip through it and it seemed to group okay (what can you tell from 7 shots?). I was firing at 10 yards and put all seven inside of the 'eight' ring on the target. I didn't care much for their black, hard plastic grips, but that's easily rectified without plunking down a ton of cash.

I liked the Daly more than any Llama or Norinco I've handled. BUT for a $300 .45, I would forego a 1911 and grab a Ruger P97 (heresy!!!)--the Daly is only a 'shadow' of a quality 1911 while the P-97 is a reliable, good shooting pistol of a different design.

------------------
Take the long way home...

June 11, 2000, 11:25 PM

I just bought a .45 FireStorm this weekend for $300 new and it shoots great. Ask your dealer about them. They are formerly known as Llama.

taco · June 12, 2000, 11:57 PM

Years ago Springfield Armory used to sell 1911 kit gun for about $270 in 45 ACP. My friend got one and was able to put it together in 2 days and it shot very well and became totally reliable after about 500 rounds. I don't know if they still sell these kits but check it out.

Arizona Eric · June 13, 2000, 12:14 AM

"Llama" changed their name to "FireStorm?"

Geez. One hokey name to another.

Anyway, I wouldn't buy anything they made due to the almost universal problems people seem to have with them ("Llamas" that is). Ditto Auto Ordnance.

Banzai · June 13, 2000, 07:52 AM

Yeah, they're available from Springfield Armory. For what you get, in all the add ons and the work done to install them, can't beat it.
Yeah, you could get a Daly or a Firestorm or a Norinca, but for 1/2 the price, they're only 1/4 the gun. Been there, done that, sold 'em all for the SA, NEVER looked back!

Tom

[This message has been edited by Banzai (edited June 13, 2000).]

Noban · June 13, 2000, 08:12 AM

I recommend that you stay away from the cheaper .45s like the Llama and Charles Daly. The finish and especially fit of these pistols is constantly berated on other discussion boards as sub-standard. The metals used in these pistols are reported to be "soft" and the critical components (e.g., sear, safety, slide stop, springs) are prone to breakage or are misshapen.

You will wind up spending the extra $200-400 to bring these pistols up to spec. After all, a carry piece MUST NOT give you any hesitation of its worth.

I recommend a low-end Kimber or Springfield, save your pennies, and have a competent 1911 smith do an upgrade. I know this is contrary to your desire, but in the end will be most rewarding.

Regards,

Noban

[This message has been edited by Noban (edited June 13, 2000).]

HarryB · June 13, 2000, 08:56 AM

It will be interesting to see the quality of the AutoOrdinance product now that Kahr has bought them out. They are supposed to begin shipping in July. No idea if they improved the quality or just bought the name.

**James K** · June 13, 2000, 11:31 AM

Since the importation of pistols from China has been stopped, there is no way buying a Norinco can now help or hurt the Chinese. Mine was bought used and nearly 2000 rounds later I can report only boredom. It is acceptably accurate and feeds and fires every time. If you can get one for anywhere near the price you mentioned, go for it.

Jim

IZZY · June 13, 2000, 11:39 AM

I agree with Banzai,

If you cant afford to buy a decent .45 then wait and save up. Around here you can get a loaded Springfield FBI style with Cocobolo grips for 550 or so (before tax...) look carfuly and look for a lightly used .45...they are out there!

jimmy · June 13, 2000, 03:14 PM

Agreed with HarryB--I'm also interested in learning more about the Kahr A-O pistols. I've wanted to like the A-O 1911, but the quality was not there.

Also, I understand that the A-O frame and maybe the slide used to be made in Spain. There's nothing wrong with that. But I'm curious to know if Kahr will continue using imported components or make the pistol entirely in the U.S.

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited June 13, 2000).]

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June 11, 2000, 06:16 PM	#1
Big Al Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2000 Location: West "By God" Virginny, USA Posts: 364	I've got a Glock 19 for spring/winter/fall carry, a Kel-Tec P32 for summer carry, and a 44 mag (rat brand) for hunting. I've been looking to get into the world of 45's, but I don't feel like shelling out 800-1500$ for a "custom" job. A friend of mine got a Norinco that looked pretty good for 150$ new from a gun shop, and he says it shoots as good as his Gold Cup. I'd like to stay away from the Chinese stuff, though, so what about a Charles Daly? Are they any good? Or should I just go ahead and get a Glock 30/36? ------------------ Glock 19 S&W 629 Classic KelTec P32 "Oh yeah? Well I talk LOOOUDLY! And I carry a BIIIGGER stick! And I'll use it, too." -Yoesemite Sam

June 11, 2000, 06:26 PM	#2
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	A springfield armory Mil-Spec 1911 will cost you about $425-500, depending on where you get it. NIB, they are very cheap but very well made. Auto-Ordinance also makes a mil-spec that is supposed to be well regarded, but I haven't spoken with anyone that owned one. They have just been bought out by Kahr Arms. And if you like to gamble, you could try the IMI .45's that are being advertized in the gun mags. I don't know how they are as their website is very poor and they don't seem interested in working with you. That's my opinion, maybe not justified, but I'd stick with Springfield or AO for quality, customer service, and such. ------------------ When Reason Fails.....

June 11, 2000, 06:28 PM	#3
jimmy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 1,796	At one time I'd have said that Colt's 1991A1 was a quality, budget GM. Since Colt's semi-demise, however, the price that some dealers charge for 1991A1s has increased by a third, to about $600, leaving the "budget" criterion behind. However, I've heard that there are still 1991A1s around, somewhere, for $450-475, a reasonable price. If so, I personally would go for one. HTH.

June 11, 2000, 06:33 PM	#4
1911Ford Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 224	You can get into A Springfield "Loaded" or a Para-Ordnance "Limited" for under $600 easily. Well, easily I guess depending on where you live. In my neck of the woods you can. Springfield and Para-Ordnance also make models that don't have all the goodies on them that you can get a little cheaper. A little over $500. If you are looking for cheaper than that I would look at the Charles Daily model.

June 11, 2000, 06:50 PM	#5
Red Bull Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 1999 Posts: 564	Which Springfield is the standard military mil-spec version? I was looking to get a good standard 1911 that runs well and does not cost a fortune. Are they fairly accurate out of the box?

June 11, 2000, 07:00 PM	#6
1911Ford Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2000 Posts: 224	go to www.springfield-armory.com/pistol_top.html shows all of there pisols. Don't let the retail price fool ya. Never seen one that high yet. ------------------ www.1911forum.com

June 11, 2000, 10:00 PM	#7
Gremlin Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 1999 Location: Just left of center Posts: 544	Is five to six hundred dollars now considered a "budget 45 Gov.". Jeez, I need to get jobs where you guys work... I thought 'budget' meant more like half that amount. I own a Springfield Loaded and would reccomend it in a heartbeat. If someone was looking to spend in the 250 to 300 dollar range, I recently tried one of the 'new' Charles Daly's and it performed pretty well. The frame had few sharp edges and the finish was very even. The slide to frame fit was looser than my Springfield, but something's gotta give in order to cost less. The Daly had no bells or whistles, it was just a plain jane, but I got to shoot a clip through it and it seemed to group okay (what can you tell from 7 shots?). I was firing at 10 yards and put all seven inside of the 'eight' ring on the target. I didn't care much for their black, hard plastic grips, but that's easily rectified without plunking down a ton of cash. I liked the Daly more than any Llama or Norinco I've handled. BUT for a $300 .45, I would forego a 1911 and grab a Ruger P97 (heresy!!!)--the Daly is only a 'shadow' of a quality 1911 while the P-97 is a reliable, good shooting pistol of a different design. ------------------ Take the long way home...

June 11, 2000, 11:25 PM	#8
PreserveFreedom Guest Posts: n/a	I just bought a .45 FireStorm this weekend for $300 new and it shoots great. Ask your dealer about them. They are formerly known as Llama.

June 12, 2000, 11:57 PM	#9
taco Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: USA Posts: 936	Years ago Springfield Armory used to sell 1911 kit gun for about $270 in 45 ACP. My friend got one and was able to put it together in 2 days and it shot very well and became totally reliable after about 500 rounds. I don't know if they still sell these kits but check it out.

June 13, 2000, 12:14 AM	#10
Arizona Eric Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 1999 Posts: 125	"Llama" changed their name to "FireStorm?" Geez. One hokey name to another. Anyway, I wouldn't buy anything they made due to the almost universal problems people seem to have with them ("Llamas" that is). Ditto Auto Ordnance.

June 13, 2000, 07:52 AM	#11
Banzai Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 275	Yeah, they're available from Springfield Armory. For what you get, in all the add ons and the work done to install them, can't beat it. Yeah, you could get a Daly or a Firestorm or a Norinca, but for 1/2 the price, they're only 1/4 the gun. Been there, done that, sold 'em all for the SA, NEVER looked back! Tom [This message has been edited by Banzai (edited June 13, 2000).]

June 13, 2000, 08:12 AM	#12
Noban Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Posts: 662	I recommend that you stay away from the cheaper .45s like the Llama and Charles Daly. The finish and especially fit of these pistols is constantly berated on other discussion boards as sub-standard. The metals used in these pistols are reported to be "soft" and the critical components (e.g., sear, safety, slide stop, springs) are prone to breakage or are misshapen. You will wind up spending the extra $200-400 to bring these pistols up to spec. After all, a carry piece MUST NOT give you any hesitation of its worth. I recommend a low-end Kimber or Springfield, save your pennies, and have a competent 1911 smith do an upgrade. I know this is contrary to your desire, but in the end will be most rewarding. Regards, Noban [This message has been edited by Noban (edited June 13, 2000).]

June 13, 2000, 08:56 AM	#13
HarryB Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: Mesa Arizona Posts: 327	It will be interesting to see the quality of the AutoOrdinance product now that Kahr has bought them out. They are supposed to begin shipping in July. No idea if they improved the quality or just bought the name.

June 13, 2000, 11:31 AM	#14
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,135	Since the importation of pistols from China has been stopped, there is no way buying a Norinco can now help or hurt the Chinese. Mine was bought used and nearly 2000 rounds later I can report only boredom. It is acceptably accurate and feeds and fires every time. If you can get one for anywhere near the price you mentioned, go for it. Jim

June 13, 2000, 11:39 AM	#15
IZZY Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Florida Posts: 898	I agree with Banzai, If you cant afford to buy a decent .45 then wait and save up. Around here you can get a loaded Springfield FBI style with Cocobolo grips for 550 or so (before tax...) look carfuly and look for a lightly used .45...they are out there!

June 13, 2000, 03:14 PM	#16
jimmy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 1,796	Agreed with HarryB--I'm also interested in learning more about the Kahr A-O pistols. I've wanted to like the A-O 1911, but the quality was not there. Also, I understand that the A-O frame and maybe the slide used to be made in Spain. There's nothing wrong with that. But I'm curious to know if Kahr will continue using imported components or make the pistol entirely in the U.S. [This message has been edited by jimmy (edited June 13, 2000).]