.45acp Moon Clips for Shaved (.455) Webley

[Olaf19]

I'm sorry for what might be a stupid question.

I'm trying to find moon clips that hold .45 ACP for my shaved (.455) Webley.

I've never worked with moon clips before.

Are the moon clips used for this Webley just the standard, everyday (one size fits all) moon clips that are for sale everywhere?

[105kw]

Each shaved Webley seems to be a little different.
One I had, which now belongs to 44AMP, works with S&W factory half moon clips. And doesn't very well with anything else.
Another a MkV, worked with nearly every brand of full or half moon clip I tried. I stuck with factory S&W half moons, because they were thinner and less flexible. And , fortunately I had a lot.
Try your gun to see what works.

[Olaf19]

Ok, I’m starting to understand all this. Thanks!

Question:

“Are the moon clips used for this Webley just the standard, everyday (one size fits all) moon clips that are for sale everywhere?“

Or, better said, are all .45 moon clips the same size (I understand there may be small manufacturing dissimilarities)?

[Jim Watson]

TK makes .035” clips for 1917s, .040” for 625s.
I don’t know how thick the Ranch Products clips are but they are a lot less expensive.

RIMZ says their 25 plastic clip will work in cut Webleys.

[44 AMP]

The gun I have (and thank you 105kw) was "shaved" a bit less than many, so doesn't have the clearance others do. Works fine with the S&W half moon clips, also works fine with some 2rnd clips (maker unknown) I found at a gun show. NO full moon clip I have ever found works in that gun, most prevent the gun from closing, they are just too thick.

The clips were created originally for use in the Colt and S&W 1917 revolvers, to allow ejection of the rimless .45ACP cases using the ejector star. Without them, rimless cases must be poked (or picked) out of the cylinder one at a time.

Many (most?) Webleys got shaved when the supply of surplus .455 ammo dried up by the end of the 50s and the dealers dealing in the imported surplus guns had the work done, so people would still buy them. One doesn't sell many guns there is no ammunition for. The work was done by different smiths and there was no standard so, dimensions differ.

Remember, at the time, these were not rare collectible pieces of history, they were war surplus, obsolete for military use, common, and nearly as cheap as dirt.

The conversion to be able to take .45acp ammo was a marketing decision, and ignored the face that the .455 is a lower pressure round and firing standard .45ACP was essentially a proof load pressure for the gun. Some guns survived it well enough, some didn't.

Do be aware that the only Webley .45s that were rated to use smokeless powder (in the Webley cartridge) are the Mk V and the Mk VI, and production of the Mk VI ended in the 20s after WWI.

[Jim Watson]

I once read that the reason for that is that there never was much .455 (or .380 Revolver) made. You got 12 or 18 rounds when you were issued your revolver and that was it, there was not a large resupply plan. After all, who shoots at people with a revolver except in dire emergency? Maybe some sneaky commando types and a lot of them went over to FNs.

[44 AMP]

When the Webleys came in as surplus guns, back after WWII, ammo came in too. As late as the later 50s you can look in the ads in the back of gun magazines of the time, where they are selling 1911s Luger, Webleys and virtually everything else from $30 or less. .455 ammo was for sale there, too, by the box (48rnds I believe) and the prices were not horrible by the standards of the time.

[105kw]

Sneaky Commando types had Thompsons, and Colt 45 autos. At least in their first years of operations.
Special troops pretty much got what they wanted.
Marine Raiders pretty much grabbed every Thompson they could requisition.

[Mike Irwin]

"Do be aware that the only Webley .45s that were rated to use smokeless powder (in the Webley cartridge) are the Mk V and the Mk VI, and production of the Mk VI ended in the 20s after WWI. "

And the Webley Mk IV, which was introduced in 1899 (and is often called the Boer War Model) because Mk III revolvers started coming apart with cordite-loaded ammo, which was introduced into British service in the .455 Webley Mk II cartridge in 1897.

The Mk IV revolver saw heavy use during WW I.

[Mike Irwin]

"I once read that the reason for that is that there never was much .455 (or .380 Revolver) made. You got 12 or 18 rounds when you were issued your revolver and that was it, there was not a large resupply plan. After all, who shoots at people with a revolver except in dire emergency? Maybe some sneaky commando types and a lot of them went over to FNs. "

The British never put much emphasis on production of handgun ammo post WW I, that is true.

When the Enfield .38 was adopted in the 1920s the original 200-gr. LRN bullet served until sometime in the 1930s when it was realized that its use might be against the Hague Convention, so the jacketed 180-gr. RN, the Mk II, cartridge was adopted.

When war broke out in 1939 and Britain began to mobilize it was quickly discovered that there wasn't nearly enough of the new Mk II ammo to supply the army, and many troops issued handguns went to France with the old 200-gr. LRN cartridges.

When Britain came to the United States for handguns they also came for ammo. They were (especially after Dunkirk) so desperate for ammo that they took anything US companies could produce, which led to the British getting a lot of .38 S&W ammo loaded with the more American standard 145 to 158-gr. bullets as well as "Super Police" ammo, which was loaded with 200-gr. lead bullets.

Most of that ammo was apparently used for training (although I have heard reports that some commercial American lead loads were issued to troops in Africa) while standard service ammo was loaded in Britain and contracted from Canada.

[FrankenMauser]

There is a guy that sells laser cut spacers/shims that can be soldered onto shaved Webley cylinders to return them to safe use with .455 ammo.
If you're interested in contact info, send me a private message. I doubt that the guy wants his email available to all of the bots and web crawlers.