45 acp and 9mm factory crimp dies

[oldbear1950]

I have both 45 acp and 9 mm factory crimp dies

and 45 acp and 9mm/38super/38auto taper crimp dies.

All are factory new and never used.

I have been told I needed the taper crimp dies for the 45 acp/9mm/38super/38auto.

So which dies do I need ?

[oldbear1950]

the dies I have are all three die sets.

[Marco Califo]

The Lee Factory Crimp dies are taper crimp especially for use for auto loader pistols.

[jetinteriorguy]

The Lee FCD has a carbide ring incorporated into the die for post sizing the case which sometimes can be problematic if shooting cast lead bullets. Some people will pry this ring out and turn the die into basically a taper crimp die. I only shoot coated, plated, or metal jacketed bullets in my pistols so this hasn’t caused any issues in my case.

[glider]

I like the Lee factory crimp die for 9MM, very easy to bulge those cases and that die takes care of that. I do use a Lyman go/no go check gauge on all loaded ammo, maybe every 10th round as I'm loading. I load a lot of lead, but I really haven't had any problems with lead. Lead makes fine holes in paper and targets are all I shoot.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by oldbear1950

I have both 45 acp and 9 mm factory crimp dies

and 45 acp and 9mm/38super/38auto taper crimp dies.

All are factory new and never used.

I have been told I needed the taper crimp dies for the 45 acp/9mm/38super/38auto.

So which dies do I need ?

What make/brand of dies?

The only company I know of that sells something called a "factory crimp" die is Lee. But their die sets that include a factory crimp die are 4 die sets, not 3 die sets. So I have no idea what you have.

As a rule, semi-auto cartridges are taper crimped, and revolver rounds are roll crimped (meaning the mouth of the case is rolled/bent inwards so the sharp edge can grab onto the bullet).

With a 3 die set, the crimping operation is combined with the seating operation. This makes die adjustment critical, because you want the bullet to be fully seated by the time the crimp is applied. The purpose of a separate, fourth die for crimping is to split those two operations, so the third die only needs to seat the bullets to the correct depth, and the fourth die takes care of crimping.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Marco Califo

The Lee Factory Crimp dies are taper crimp especially for use for auto loader pistols.

Lee also sells factory crimp dies for revolver rounds. They are collet style roll crimp dies.

[Nathan]

Lee also sells factory crimp dies for revolver rounds. They are collet style roll crimp dies.

Well, except 38 spcl.

There are basically 4 types of crimp dies….
Lee Seaters they use a taper crimp for auto’s and a profile crimp for revolver dies. They are great for both, imo….profile crimp for revolvers and taper for autos.

Lee FCD dies for autos are the same, except they have a carbide ring sizing the whole case. It makes good enough ammo, but some have issues with resizing bullets through the brass making them loose.

Lee taper crimp dies are cheap, work great for autos and don’t size bullets.

Lee collet factory crimp dies work well, as long as there is enough case length to make them function as roll crimps.

[markr6754]

For 9mm, 40 S&W and 45Auto I used the Hornady Taper Crimp dies. The 9mm Taper Crimp can also be used for any of the .355/.356 cases, including 38 Super, 38 Auto, even 380 Auto, although I prefer the Lee Factory Crimp die for the 380 Auto.

For rifle loads I always get the Lee Factory Crimp dies, which are collet dies. I've never tried anything else for rifle.

[oldbear1950]

this will be my first experience loading and auto loads. I have loaded quite a few 38/357 mag and 45 colt, and 32 H & R mag. But these are all revolvers and use a roll crimp as does my 45-70 loads for a lever action. I have loaded these for Marlins and now Henry's . I also loaded for Ruger #1s and a #3 all in 45-70. And they took/recommended a good tight roll crimp.

I have had a Lee factory crimp die for those loads and the roll crimps.

[mehavey]

this will be my first experience loading and auto loads.

You really don't need a separate "crimp" die for autoloaders.
Simply use the seater die with just enough of its taper engaged to straighten out the mouth flare.

[Shadow9mm]

Short answer the Factory crimp die is just fine. Lee puts the right type of taper in them for the cartridge they are made for. taper crimp for auto loaders that use the case mouth to keep them from going in too far, roll crimp for cases that use the rim to keep them from going in too far like revolver cartridges.

Lee explains it here themselves
https://support.leeprecision.net/en/...mp-explanation

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Well, except 38 spcl.

Incorrect.

Originally Posted by Nathan

There are basically 4 types of crimp dies….
Lee Seaters they use a taper crimp for auto’s and a profile crimp for revolver dies. They are great for both, imo….profile crimp for revolvers and taper for autos.

Lee FCD dies for autos are the same, except they have a carbide ring sizing the whole case. It makes good enough ammo, but some have issues with resizing bullets through the brass making them loose.

Lee taper crimp dies are cheap, work great for autos and don’t size bullets.

Lee collet factory crimp dies work well, as long as there is enough case length to make them function as roll crimps.

You are confusing crimping dies with "factory crimping dies." As I explained in my previous post, a 3-die set uses the same die for both seating and crimping. Lee's 4-die sets include a separate "factory crimp die" to separate the crimping operation from the seating operation.

https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies-hand-gun-dies

https://leeprecision.com/38-special-357-magnum-dies

38 Special or 357 Magnum pistol bullet seating die only complete. If crimp is desired, this die will apply a roll crimp.

Lee 38 Special/357 Magnum/357 MAX Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the cartridge while being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. This die applies a roll crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. Trim Length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition, as it eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.

[mehavey]

Originally Posted by The OP

I have been told I needed the taper crimp dies for the 45 acp/9mm/38super/38auto.

Going back to the original issue... "I've been told...."
Does, in fact, the OP need a separate die at all ?

[Nathan]

@Shadow9mm. I know you are a serious reloader. Have you had any accuracy or setback issues with the fcd for autos? I had some and going to a plain taper crimp die eliminated the issue.

You really don't need a separate "crimp" die for autoloaders.

For many folks, this is true.

[Nathan]

Incorrect.

Have you tried it? I did. It didn’t work. I called Lee, too. They said 38 spcl is even too short to make a custom die.

Read closely….38 is missing…

https://leeprecision.com/carbide-fac...imp-die-38-357

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Have you tried it? I did. It didn’t work. I called Lee, too. They said 38 spcl is even too short to make a custom die.

Read closely….38 is missing…

https://leeprecision.com/carbide-fac...imp-die-38-357

You're joking, right?

The die you have highlighted on that page is named "38/357 Carbide Factory Crimp Die." So .38 certainly isn't missing there. And then the description says:

Lee 38 Special/357 Magnum/357 MAX Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the cartridge while being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. This die applies a roll crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. Trim Length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition, as it eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.

[Aguila Blanca]

Getting back to the original question: Oldbear1950, you wrote that you have factory crimp dies, but you also wrote that your dies are all 3-die sets. If these are Lee, their 3-dies sets don't include the factory crimp die. Only the 4-die sets include the factory crimp die.

What do you have?

[Metal god]

It was my understanding that in those four die sets the factory crimp die is simply the correct crimp for the cartridge . If the designated cartridge requires a roll crimp then the Lee factory crimp die in the set is a roll crimp die and the same if the cartridge requires a taper crimp, then the factory crimp die in the set is a taper crimp die ?

I could be wrong, but that is my understanding .

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Metal god

It was my understanding that in those four die sets the factory crimp die is simply the correct crimp for the cartridge . If the designated cartridge requires a roll crimp then the Lee factory crimp die in the set is a roll crimp die and the same if the cartridge requires a taper crimp, then the factory crimp die in the set is a taper crimp die ?

If discussing Lee dies, that is correct.

For handguns (which I believe is all they offer the 4-die sets for) the factory crimp die adds a carbide full-length resizing ring intended to iron out any case bulges. But the crimp is the correct type of crimp (roll or taper) for the cartridge.

I would still like to know how Oldbear1950 got 3-die sets with factory crimp dies.

[BJung]

Has the Lee Factory crimp die shown a consistent improvement in your loads? I returned from the range yesterday and tested .357-160 FRN cast bullets with a crimp or the first time. The first set had a light crimp, or in other words I took out the flare and turned the die down 1/8 turn. The second set was the same but I turned the die down 1/4 turn with my RCBS seating die. The third set I used the LEE FCD and that group was the most consistent. The bad groups could be my shooting off benched and on a sandbag.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by BJung

Has the Lee Factory crimp die shown a consistent improvement in your loads?

I can't answer that, because I have no basis for comparison. I load almost exclusively for handguns. When I first started reloading, I wasn't certain I'd stay with it so I didn't want to invest a lot of money. I elected to start off with a Fee starter kit, which included a press and several accessories, and a Lee 4-die set for .45 ACP. The 4-die set, of course, included a factory crimp die. The ammunition I loaded with that setup went "Bang" and made holes basically where I was aiming, so when I began loading 9mm I again went with the 4-die set that included a factory crimp die.

To me, it makes perfect sense to use the seating die to seat and a crimping die to crimp, rather than try to use one die to perform both jobs. So I have never tried omitting the factory crimp die as a comparison.

[oldbear1950]

Aguila blanca I purchased the 3 die sets originally, and ordered the factory crimp dies separately. Then someone mentioned needed the taper crimp dies and ordered them separately also.
So now I have both. That taper crimp die for 9 mm also does 38 super/38 auto, and 380. At least that is what the paper it came with says.

[oldbear1950]

I have never loaded anything but revolvers before. And since they are all straight walled cases, they require a roll crimp, similiar to my 45-70 rifle loads.
I load, 32 H & R mag, 38 special, 357 mag, and 45 colt. I have factory crimp dies for all those cartridges, course the 38/357 is the same crimp die, just adjusted differently

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by oldbear1950

Aguila blanca I purchased the 3 die sets originally, and ordered the factory crimp dies separately. Then someone mentioned needed the taper crimp dies and ordered them separately also.

The 9mm factory crimp die does the same thing as the 9mm taper crimp die, with the addition of a carbide resizing ring to iron out any bulging of the case that may result from seating the bullet. The seating/crimping die in the 3-die set also applies a taper crimp. So you now have three dies, all of which apply the same taper crimp.

So now I have both. That taper crimp die for 9 mm also does 38 super/38 auto, and 380. At least that is what the paper it came with says.

9mm, .38 Super, and .380 ACP are all the same caliber. The SAAMI bullet diameter for 9mm is 0.3555", for .38 Super is 0.3560", and for .380 ACP is 0.3565". I have used bullets intended for .380 ACP in 9mm cases, and I use the same bullets for 9mm and for .38 Super. The taper crimp die has enough range to handle that much variation.

But the taper crimp die takes the flare out of the case mouth, so it's the case diameter that matters. And those are different for 9mm, .38 Super, and for .380 ACP. The 9mm case has a pronounced taper, from 0.3913 near the case head to 0.3810 at the case mouth (SAAMI nominal dimensions). .38 Super has no taper; the case diameter is 0.3840". .380 ACP looks like a straight wall case, but it also has a slight taper, from 0.3739 near the case head to 0.3730" at the case mouth.

This is why the same taper crimp die will work on all three, but you can't use the same carbide factory crimp die for all three.

In reality, I probably could use my 9mm carbide factory crimp die or my .38 Super factory crimp die as a taper crimp die for .380 ACP, but the carbide sizer ring won't do anything, because it's larger than the .380 ACP case diameter.