Kroil in Ed’s red

[echo154]

I’m getting ready to mix up a gallon of Ed’s Red, first time as my department provided Sweets 7.62 and Kroil.
I looked for and failed to find anything about using Kroil in the mix, I have a full gallons of it but need to go in town to get the tranny fluid (is that a politically acceptable term). It’s not that I question the formulation, just trying to avoid city folks and all!

[Aguila Blanca]

There is no Kroil in Ed's Red.

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharri...sRedRecipe.htm

Some discussion of the ingredients in ER is helpful to understand the properties of the cleaner and how it works. Pratts Astral Oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. Today you would ask for "K1" kerosene of the type sold for use in indoor space heaters.

An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron III automatic transmission fluid. Prior to 1950 most ATF's were sperm oil based. During WWII sperm oil was mostly unavailable, so highly refined, dewaxed hydrofinished petroleum oils were developed, which had excellent thermal stability. When antioxidants were added to prevent gumming these worked well in precision instruments.

With the high demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATFs in the needed quantities needed, so the wartime expedients were mass produced. ATFs have been continually improved over the years. The additives contained in Dexron include detergents or other surfactants which are highly suitable for inclusion in an all-purpose cleaner, lubricant and preservative.

Hatcher's Frankford Arsenal No. 18 used gum spirits of turpentine, but turpentine is both expensive and also highly flammable, so I chose not to use it. Much safer and more inexpensive are "aliphatic mineral spirits," which are an open-chain organic solvent, rather than the closed-chain, benzene ring structure, common to "aromatics," such as naphtha or "lighter fluid." Sometimes called "safety solvent," aliphatic mineral spirits are used for thinning oil based paint, as automotive parts cleaner and is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol".

Acetone is included to provide an aggressive, fast-acting solvent for caked smokeless powder residues. Because acetone readily evaporates and the fumes are harmful in high concentrations, it is recommended that it be left out if the cleaner will be used indoors, in soak tanks or in enclosed spaces lacking forced air ventilation. Containers should be kept tightly closed when not in use. ER is still effective without acetone, but not as "fast-acting."

"Ed's Red" does not chemically dissolve copper fouling in rifle bores, but it does a better job of removing carbon and primer residue than most other cleaners. Many users have told me, that frequent and exclusive use of "ER" reduces copper deposits, because it removes the old impacted powder fouling left behind by other cleaners. This reduces the abrasion and adhesion of jacket metal to the bore, leaving a cleaner surface condition which reduces subsequent fouling. Experience indicates that "ER" will actually remove metal fouling in bores if it is left to "soak," for a few days so the surfactants will do the job, when followed by a repeat cleaning. You simply have to be patient.

Addition of lanolin to ER is optional, because the cleaner works perfectly well and gives adequate corrosion protection and lubrication without it. Inclusion of lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the hands, increases its lubricity and film strength and improves corrosion protection if firearms, tools or equipment will be routinely exposed to salt air, water spray, or corrosive urban atmospheres.

I recommend the lanolin included if you intend to use the cleaner as a protectant for long term storage or for a "flush" after water cleaning of black powder firearms or those fired with military chlorate primers. This is because lanolin has a great affinity for water and readily emulsifies so that the bore can be wiped of residual moisture, leaving a protective film. If you inspect your guns and wipe them down twice yearly, you can leave out the lanolin and save about $10 per gallon.

Of course, the more sources you check the more "authentic" formulas you find.

https://gunsmithingclubofamerica.com/article/eds-red/

Ed’s Red is infamous in the gun world as one of the best (THE best?) homemade bore cleaners and solvents. It compares favorably to military grade firearm solvents and has a number of minor variations that have crept in over the years and as used by different people.
The Formula
The base formula for Ed’s Red is actually an old military mix, listed as Frankford Arsenal Nitro Solvent #18 in Hatcher’s Notebook (Julian Hatcher was the Chief of the Small Arms Division in the Ordnance Department and the Assistant Commandant of the Ordnance School for the US ARMY. Every gun enthusiast can benefit from his notebook.). The original mixture listed there is:

Acetone, 1 part
Kerosene (Pratt’s Astral Oil) , 1 part
Sperm Oil, 1 part
Mineral Spirits (turpentine), 1 part
To every 800 c.c. add 250g Anhydrous Lanolin

Since sperm oil, which is oil made from the spermaceti organ and blubber of a sperm whale, and hasn’t been used since the development of synthetic lubricants during WWII, is rather hard to get, automatic transmission fluid (ATF) such as the General Motors specification for Dexron is the current substitute. Also, many users will leave out the anhydrous lanolin, which is about the only thing you won’t normally find at your local hardware or big box retailer. So, for most users, a modern formula would be:

Acetone, 1 quart
Kerosene, 1 quart
ATF, 1 quart
Mineral spirits or turpentine, 1 quart

Here's the formula from Ed himself:

https://www.vkhgc.ca/documents/Ed%20gun%20cleaner.pdf

[echo154]

I know Kroil is not in the recipe, I have plenty of Kroil on hand and was wondering if anybody had used it in, or as a substitute, in their mix. Just trying to save $8 and a trip into town…..better part of an hour each way……but only a few neighbors and I can shoot in my yard!
I just saw the part about lanolin, I’m gonna order some via Amazon and try it too!

[JohnKSa]

I made up a mix I called "The Dip" out of Acetone, Kroil and ATF. I used to soak really nasty parts in it to remove fouling. I could never tell that it was all that impressive in terms of a cleaning solution, and it was smelly and messy.

Now I use MPRO-7 or Hoppes Elite. Cleans better and doesn't smell.

[Jim Watson]

Since you HAVE the Kroil, why not make up a small batch and try it out?
I can't see where changing one hydrocarbon will make a heck of a lot of difference.

There was a recent thread about using Marvel Mystery Oil instead of ATF to reduce the odor. I bet it cleaned, too.

[echo154]

I did exactly that, my neighbor gave me a quart of tranny fluid, circa 1970 something, so it’s gotta be good! I mixed up a gallon the took a quart of that and put in about 1/2 can….smaller squeeze type. I refilled the it with the mix and labeled it as such…..now to go out and get some guns dirty!

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by echo154

I know Kroil is not in the recipe, I have plenty of Kroil on hand and was wondering if anybody had used it in, or as a substitute, in their mix. Just trying to save $8 and a trip into town…..better part of an hour each way……but only a few neighbors and I can shoot in my yard!

What are you going to substitute the Kroil for -- the kerosene? I don't think Kroil is a good substitute for the ATF.

[echo154]

I ended up doing the original formula but took some and added about 2.5 oz to a quart of the Ed’s to see if it would be better at lead removal. But yes my original plan was to use Kroil in place of the tranny fluid as I didn’t have any on hand. My neighbor, down the road a fair piece, generously gave me a quart of Tranny fluid! I know Kroil and tranny fluid have good penetrating properties so I wondered if anybody had tried it. I will see how the mixture of Ed’s and Kroil works on my 629 which needs the throats opened up as it’s smaller than the bbl and leads something terrible

[tangolima]

Removing lead? I'd put hope on something else. It probably will work better removing carbon. But one would never know till he tries. Keep us updated please.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[echo154]

I’m hoping it’ll penetrate under the lead allowing it to scrub out easier, I have almost a gallon of it works great on copper!

[Hawg]

For removing lead I wrap a piece of copper scrubbing pad around a bronze brush.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Hawg

For removing lead I wrap a piece of copper scrubbing pad around a bronze brush.

Basically, a poor man's Lewis Lead Remover.

https://www.brownells.com/tools-clea...-handgun-kits/

[Disclaimer: I am not in any way affiliated with Brownells.]

[echo154]

I bought a Lewis, mostly to polish forcing cones, but it’s much easier to get lead out with it if the lead is “loosened” up a bit…..plus I get to put Hoppes on a patch for ambiance while I clean…..Ed’s not so much, so I soak the bbl out in the shop and let it sit overnight, dry patch it, and then use Hoppes on it….I know overkill….but if I don’t smell Hoppes I don’t feel the clean It’s a childhood thing, my wife calls it something else