44mag WWB ammo split cases- next steps?

[jmstr]

Hello,

Like a fool I went to the range with my new to me 4" S&W 29-2 and no range rod.

I started with cylinder of Winchester White Box that I believe is 'new old stock'. I bought it from a retailer who had his ammo set up into 4 categories: New, Professionally Remanufactured, New Old Stock [from someone's estate when they died, for example] and Amateur reloaded.

This was in the section of New Old Stock.

It fired fine but felt pretty stout. More recoil snap than I expected.

Keep in mind my frame of reference is comparing this to: Ruger SRH 7.5", SBH 7.5" barrel, SBH 5.5" barrel.

I assumed the stout feel was due to the light weight. I've never fired a .44mag with less than a 5.5" barrel before.

However, when I went to eject the shells nothing happened.

I tapped the ejector rod a couple times and the star lifted the rounds a bit, but two were stuck. I removed 5 of them there without tools but had to wait to get home to remove the 6th.

When I did I saw that it had a longitudinal split about 1" long.


I am now wondering if the ammo may be overpressured, or if this is a known concern for WWB .44mag ammo from 5+ years ago?

Or is this a matter of oversized chambers allowing the brass to expand too far?

I am debating what to do.
Fire it from my SRH?
Or pull the bullets, save the powder and reload in better brass?

If I pull the powder, does anyone know what type of powder WWB uses, so I can reference it for reloading?

[bamaranger]

I'm thinking since the retailer had his ammo set up into the noted categories, you got some hot reloaded ammo passed off as NOS. Sure could be wrong, but a split case on round #1 of supposed factory ammo....sounds wonky to me.

Honestly, I really don't want to shoot anybody's reloads but mine. Amateur Reloads.............geez...........you might as well put a sign on it that says "law suit eligible". Any retailer that would label ammo in that manner is capable of pulling off anything.....or may be so ignorant he has no idea the disaster he's courting.

All that said Winchester White box has had QC issues in recent years (reportedly). Too, your revolver may have a wonky cylinder, I'd try some other factory ammo in the 'Smith for sure. Two wonky charge holes......I'm back to suspecting the ammo.

Just one box?? I'd pull it . ditch the powder as who knows what it is or the amount, salvage the slugs. Resize, flare, charge with safe known powder and amount, and reseat the bullets. Cpunt my losses.....not buy ammo from that dude again.

[stagpanther]

The underbelly of the gun store business that I hate; sometimes some stores pass off "used" ammo that might have been acquired from estates or other businesses that went out of business. I seen stores that don't mark the difference between new ammo and what they have that is "used" or repurchased. You, the purchaser, are the guinea pig. When they do that I'll never buy ammo from that shop again. No BS excuses--that's it.

[sparkyv]

I gotta agree with @bamaranger.

[totaldla]

I've had 44mag cases split. Both nose-to-anus grizzly zapper and put-put loads. But always brass with a few load cycles on it.
I always have a knock out rod with me ( chunk of aluminum cleaning rod).

[44 AMP]

This is (sold as) factory ammo? You have the factory box?? Find the lot# on the box and contact the factory. IF they ask for it, send them the box and all unfired ammo.

Fire some other ammo from your gun and see if you get the same, or a similar problem. If so, its likely the gun, and that is the gun maker's responsibility to fix.

IF other ammo comes out fine, the problem is with that batch of ammo and the maker needs to know there was a problem (case split).

Maybe it was a problem they had some time ago, and they've fixed it. Maybe its something still going on, and they don't realize it...

You can't fix a problem if you don't know there is one. Contact Winchester and talk to them about it.

Maybe the dealer (knowingly or unknowingly) sold you someone's reloads thinking it was factory ammo???

Maybe it was a fluke, with just that one case being "bad brass"???

Contact Winchester, if they see the ammo, they could tell you if either of those apply.
Good Luck!

[cdoc42]

Just a thought. I've used a Super BlackHawk, and Super R Hawk with 180gr JHP, 240gr JHP and 300gr JHP with max loads of H110 and Mag primers since 1976; I have at least 1000 empty cases that I have continually reloaded since then. I've never had one split and I've never had to throw one away. The worst thing I ever did was buy 500 at a time.

[blackhawk44]

Have been reloading 44 mag since 1968 and the only times that I have seen case body splits is from either age or work hardened cases. They became too brittle to expand so they split.

[Pumpkin]

What was the specific load; do the rest of the box match the information on the box, ex. type of bullet (JHP, POWER POINT, LSWC GAS CHECK, etc.), nickel or brass case……..

Was the report and recoil the same for all six rounds fired?

If you have a friend that reloads let them look at the reminder of the box. The way the primers are seated, bullet crimping, other strange marks or shapes on the cases because of full length re-sizing could be signs of reloaded ammo. I believe fired brass can become brittle over time.

As mentioned, contacting the manufacturer with Lot No. is a good idea.

Years ago I bought an old yellow Super X box of 357Mag 158gr JHP’s that had one case that was too long. It was actually crimped over the ogive, can’t imagine what might have happened if I hadn’t noticed. Also, other than a reloader using improperly trimmed 357 Max brass it would have been hard to blame this on reloading.

I also have a Fed 9mm nylock in my collection with the primer seated 90 degrees off. It was forced into the case sideways.

Point is, manufacturers can and have made mistakes.

My first instinct would be reloads passed off as new but, you really should contact Win.

Also, try a different box of known new ammo, if it does okay you can eliminate the gun. Lastly, never shoot someone else’s reloads, it’s really not worth harming yourself, your gun or any bystanders.

[Unclenick]

The split cases could be handloads, but they could also have been WB ammo stored incorrectly. Sometime back, Slamfire described a Navy report in which the ball powder in M80 ball deteriorated in heat in a way that destroyed its deterrent faster than its nitrocellulose, so it's burn rate went up faster than the energy content went down, with the result that peak pressure increased about forty percent.

The bottom line is to pull the bullets, dump the powder, as it is either bad or something you can't be sure of identifying. Recharge an reseat.

[243winxb]

Scrap all

[olduser]

Pull a couple of the rounds down and weigh the powder they have and make a visual inspection of the powder. Identify if it is flake or ball or something else. Also weigh the bullet to see if it matches the description you have.

[44 AMP]

While all the suggestions are well meant, I would not screw around breaking down the ammo and trying to check or match things when there are other avenues available.

This ammo was sold to you as Winchester factory ammo, and either it is, or its not. Since you had a case failure, the rest of the ammo (44 rounds, right? or have you fired more??) is suspect.

You NEED to contact Winchester. They have the expertise and experience to identify and test the ammo, that you and I do not.

They can tell you if the ammo in the box is what was in the box when it left the factory or if it has been tampered with, altered, or replaced. They can test fire rounds and measure the pressure. They can test the powder in ways to determine if it had degraded in any way from what it was when loaded.

Consider this, if it is WWB factory stuff "gone bad" someone owes you another box of ammo. Either Winchester or your dealer. If it turns out to be someone's reloads, I'd say it would be your dealer.

In the old days, when defective ammo was reported to the makers, they generally thanked you for making them aware of the problem, so they could fix it, and replaced the ammo. Often they would also give you something for the hassle. Caps, shirts, or oher things.

Point here is if you tear it down, then you're going to eat the cost, won't have any proof other than your own word, the powder is worthless, the brass might be bad (one was) you probably could reuse the bullets. Is it worth the work for what you'll get?

Additionally, if it is factory stuff gone bad, WW might not have heard of it before, Giving them the information (especially the lot number on the box) might possibly save someone else from harm.

After the holidays, when the staff is all back at work, contact them, let them know what happened, with all the information you have and see what they say. Shouldn't cost you anything but the phone call, and some patience.

IF you don't like what they say, you can do whatever you want with your ammo, break it down, toss it, whatever. But i would work with WW on it before going down another path.

Yes, its just one box of ammo, but its also the principle, if that matters to you. It would, to me.

[Sarge]

Winchester's Q4240 is an excellent, accurate 44 Magnum load and one of a very few which routinely exceed published ballistics. I use it as my standard evaluation load for any 44 Magnum that comes on the place.

{Edit: Please read the board policy on posting copyrighted materials}

A good example is an old fixed Uberti Cattleman with a 7 1/2" barrel, which produced just over 1400 fps with this load and 3" 50 yard groups when I did my part.

I suspect those are not factory loads jmstr. If you have a bullet puller you can salvage the brass; if not, toss it. I suggest you get a fresh box Q4240 from a reputable distributor (Midway, Academy etc) and give that Model 29 another chance.

[mehavey]

Fire some other ammo from your gun and see
if you get the same, or a similar problem.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^
(Has the OP come back yet?)