tested a couple powders, 223 with Hrn 75g match

[Shadow9mm]

So I bought some 75g Hornady OTM bullets a while back to test in 223. Saw in another thread here https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=614522 the OP was having good results with H335 with 62-65g bullets so I picked up 1lb to play with in addition to CFE223 and BL-C(2). Got some rounds loaded for initial testing and got to the range today.

Only 1 round fired each, I was doing function and pressure testing. I took chrono data just to get a ballpark idea of where velocities were at.

I was hoping to be in the 2700 ish FPS range at or near max. Based on todays testing I will be going forward with the BL-C(2) up to 26.0g based on Hodgdon's data. Next test will be 10rnds each, going down from max in 0.2g increments to check for a stable velocity node. After that it will be playing with seating depth to tune accuracy.

Mixed 223 brass
Hornady 450 Small rifle magnum Primers
Seated to 2.250 per Hornady
Firm crimp, as they are going in an AR. Lee factory collet crimp.
All charges were weighed
16in barrel, 5.56 chamber, 1:7 twist.

BL-C(2)
22.8, 2303fps
23.1, 2338fps
23.4, 2417fps
23.7, 2475fps
24.0, 2519fps
24.3, 2544fps
24.6, 2577fps
24.9, 2578fps
25.2, 2656fps

CFE223
22.5, 2306fps
22.8, 2338fps
23.1, 2385fps
23.4, 2409fps
23.7, 2451fps
24.0, 2460fps
24.3, 2512fps
24.6, 2605fps
24.9, 2587fps

H335
20.6, 2241fps
20.9, 2259fps
21.2, 2288fps
21.5, 2396fps
21.8, 2362fps
22.1, 2398fps
22.4, 2506fps
22.7, 2461fps
23.0, 2581fps

Had some odd velocity variations with H335 up near the top, 22.4 to 23.0 . Had Similar problems with CFE223 in 24.6 to 24.9g


Update
Well, i got a burr in my saddle, had the rounds loaded, went back to the range again

Once fired lake city
Cci 450 small rifle magnum primers
Bl-c(2) powder
Hornady 75g otm seated 2.250

10rnds per string
25.2 avg 2652, sd 10.19, es 35
25.4 avg 2675, sd 13.79, es 44
25.6 avg 2689, sd 21.58, es 75
25.8 avg 2687, sd 28.67, es99
26.0, avg 2710, sd 36.22, es 117

Gonna go with 25.2g and hopefully do seating test in a few days.

[HiBC]

Look to Hornady's reloading manual. I admit,mine is a few years old.Things may have changed.
Look for a page dedicated to 5.56 / AR-15 match loads.

I also chrono's several powders and fired a cursory few 5 shot groups for a general look at whether there were any accuracy disasters.

I found RE-15 gave me significant gain in velocity. Hornady did,too. With that bullet.

Its funny,with a 69 gr MK, my favorite is Varget. I stock Varget.I really wanted Varget to be a top performer with th 75 gr bullet. It was good,but RE-15 had the advantage.
If you can find some,I suggest you try it. Look to the Hornady book. I used their data

I understand there is some controversy about cimping AR-15 loads. You do things your way,no problem. A variable is,I do not crimp.

[Shadow9mm]

I have had a few bullet set back problems here and there. Im going for kind of a poor mans mk242 mod 1 load and want reliability. Johnnies reloading bench did a test with the lee factory collet crimp die and found no discernable change https://youtu.be/wnZWv38cNKw

Plus im fairly sure the BL-C(2) loads are compressed, and I dont want them growing on me.

[Nick_C_S]

Shadow9mm, What's your twist rate?

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

Shadow9mm, What's your twist rate?

1:7, so they should stabilize fine, (I edited the original post to add it, thanks)

[Nick_C_S]

1:7, so they should stabilize fine

Right answer Thanks.

[tangolima]

25.2gr powder, instead of 45.2gr, right?

It is interesting to have SD increasing with charge. Usually it is the other way around.

You may soon notice, if you haven't already, loads with small SD don't necessarily give better group. Muzzle velocity matters the most. Once you find the sweet spot in MV, improving SD will improve group further.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by tangolima

25.2gr powder, instead of 45.2gr, right?

It is interesting to have SD increasing with charge. Usually it is the other way around.

You may soon notice, if you haven't already, loads with small SD don't necessarily give better group. Muzzle velocity matters the most. Once you find the sweet spot in MV, improving SD will improve group further.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Corrected, thank you. That's what i get for posting at the range.

I have found 2 ways to tune for accuracy. One is velocity. The other is seating depth. I prefer seating depth.

When you fire the gun the barrel whips or oscillates. Finding accuracy is getting the bullet to leave the barrel at a more stable point in the oscilation.

Changing velocity changes the exit timing, but i find it to be imprecise.

Changing seating depth also changes the exit timing, but is much more controlled imho. I do 5-7 groups of 5 rounds, seating the bullet deeper 0.003 each group. I took a 1.25in group down to a 0.75in group at 100yds, same powder charge , different seating depths with my 30-06

[m&p45acp10+1]

If you can find it. I advise trying Reloader15 for 75 grain bullets. Varget works well too. I know the way things are going now, you have to do what you can with what you have on hand.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by m&p45acp10+1

If you can find it. I advise trying Reloader15 for 75 grain bullets. Varget works well too. I know the way things are going now, you have to do what you can with what you have on hand.

I had considered it, and its available in my area so is tac and ar comp. But i was waiting for the rl 15.5 to hit the shelves in my area. The more temperature stable version.

I use varget for 30-06. What little I have left is being saved for loads i already have worked up. If i can get any i will test with it as well.

[Shadow9mm]

so I just did some testing with H335 with 55 and 62g bullets. Over all between this performance and the performance with the 75 I don't think I will be using this powder going forward.

16in barrel AR
Hornady FMJ 55g seated 2.200, start 20.8, max 23.2 (Hornady 11th)
Hornady FMJ 62g seated 2.229, start 21.0, max 22.9 (Hornady 11th)
Lake city once fired
CCI 450 small rifle magnum primers

I did 1 round at each charge weight looking for pressure signs in my rifle, so no SD/ES data.

55g
20.8, 2432 fps
21.1, 2447 fps
21.4, 2501 fps
21.7, 2479 fps
22.0, 2543 fps
22.3, 2549 fps
22.6, 2568 fps
22.9, 2634 fps
23.2, 2647 fps

62g
20.2, 2370 fps
20.5, 2341 fps
20.8, 2360 fps
21.1, 2397 fps
21.4, 2436 fps
21.7, 2467 fps
22.0, 2446 fps
22.3, 2508 fps
22.6, 2528 fps
22.9, 2640 fps

[Nathan]

You might try H322 or H4895. Quickload seems to prefer H322.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by Nathan

You might try H322 or H4895. Quickload seems to prefer H322.

I have been getting excellent results with CFE223, despite what is said about it. I can't get H4895, or my preferred, Benchmark. Next on my list is 748, Always seen and heard great things, but I have never tried it myself.

[Metal god]

The standard load for H-335 and the 55gr bullet is 25gr . I do 25.5 and have tested to 26.5gr with no issues . I forget off the top of my head but either 25 or 25.5 get right to 3000fps from a 16” AR

H-335 is my plinking powder . I’ve never ever tried it with heavy match bullets . I have about 20lbs on hand and will run through that a lot quicker then I originally thought I would .

[ciwsguy]

In my bolt rifle, that bullet works well with AR Comp and Varget. With AR comp, I’ve shot a 0.64 inch five shot group at 100 yards

[Shadow9mm]

cant speak to accuracy, at this point I only tested for pressure signs and grabbed some velocities at the same time. I pulled data from Hornady as I was using their bullets and their seating depths. Did some digging through my manuals. I'll give it another go with a bit more of a push and see what I can get but I don't have high hopes.

Hornady 10th and 11th
55 max 23.2
62 max 22.9

Hodgdon
55g speer sp, max 25.3g
62g sft scir, max 21.4g

Speer #15
55g gold dot, max 23.5g
62g gold dot, max 22.4g

Lee end edition (revised 2021)
55g fmj, max 25.3g
62g fmj, max 21.4g

Lyman 50th
55g jsp, max 27.0g
62g ss109 fmj, max 25.0g

sierra 6th
55g fmj, max 25.7
63g sp, max 25.6

[HiBC]

You probably realize this.but the Hornady book has a separate page/listing for 5.56 AR-15 Match loads .

Thats where I found the RE-15 loads. I think bbl length is 20 in. Max vel was 2850 for the RE-15 75 gr load.

We found Benchmark worked very well for the 60 gr Nosler varmint bullet.

Benchmark is in the same family as Varget. It is a step quicker burning. Varget works very well with 69 gr bullets.

You go ahead and do things your way, but IMO , for the 75 gr bullet, Benchmark is a step in the wrong direction. Too quick. Varget was OK for 75's, but try as I might, Varget would not deliver the velocity of RE-15.

You mentioned its available.(Re-15) One pound is not a big risk

Its been several years, but I did the incremental loads with several powders and the 75 Hornady BTHP. Have fun!!

[Shadow9mm]

In going through my Hornady manual i have the following listings.

223 remington (35g to 62g)
223 remington service rifle data (68g to 80g)
5.56 nato (55g to 90g)

The 5.56 data has 62g listed up to 25.4g h335, but no h335 listing for 55g.

Benchmark is my preferred with 55s. Never tried it with 75s figured it would be too fast. Been using cfe223 for 55s as it was the only thing i could get a good supplybof at the time.

Using bl-c2 with the 75s. Preliminary testing is giving me right around 1moa. I am also working a load up with ramshot tac that looks promising but its too early to tell.

I bought 335 to try another powder. Figured it would not do well with 75s but i was curious as another user said he was having good results with 68s. Wanted to test 55s and 62s as an alternative to cfe223

[jetinteriorguy]

If you can find some H4895 give it a try. It’s my go to for 68gr, haven’t tried with 75gr.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

If you can find some H4895 give it a try. It’s my go to for 68gr, haven’t tried with 75gr.

Been looking for h4895, benchmark, and varget for close to a year. No luck so far

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Been looking for h4895, benchmark, and varget for close to a year. No luck so far

I’m getting a little low on H4895 as well, down to about 4lbs. The good thing is I have about 10lbs of Varget which shoots so close to H4895 in my rifle that I should be good for a couple more years. I’m trying to develop a load for my 62gr bullets with H335 to save my remaining H4895 for the 68gr bullets, I have close to 16lbs of H335 on hand so if it works out I’m golden for a long time to come.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

I’m getting a little low on H4895 as well, down to about 4lbs. The good thing is I have about 10lbs of Varget which shoots so close to H4895 in my rifle that I should be good for a couple more years. I’m trying to develop a load for my 62gr bullets with H335 to save my remaining H4895 for the 68gr bullets, I have close to 16lbs of H335 on hand so if it works out I’m golden for a long time to come.

Cfe223, at hornady 223 max, got me up to 2947fps with 62s, a result i was quite happy with. Still 0.3 more i could go with hornadys 5.56 max. Need to test for a consistent load, that will be next range outing.

[kilotanker22]

Interesting that your ES/SD increased by so much with BLC-(2). I use the same powder and 75 grain Hornady. I am loading the same 26 grain charge you tested with a bit more velocity, CCI 450, Lake City 2021 cases all from the same batch, 22 inch barrel. My spreads are much lower. SD was 9fps if memory serves me correctly. You are correct though that the 26 grain charge of BLC-(2) is compressed at standard mag length for an AR, but only slightly in my cases. With my bolt gun though I am loading a little longer.

Are all of your Lake City cases from the same batch? Maybe my longer barrel and 223 Rem chamber are why my spread is so much better, but who knows.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by kilotanker22

Interesting that your ES/SD increased by so much with BLC-(2). I use the same powder and 75 grain Hornady. I am loading the same 26 grain charge you tested with a bit more velocity, CCI 450, Lake City 2021 cases all from the same batch, 22 inch barrel. My spreads are much lower. SD was 9fps if memory serves me correctly. You are correct though that the 26 grain charge of BLC-(2) is compressed at standard mag length for an AR, but only slightly in my cases. With my bolt gun though I am loading a little longer.

Are all of your Lake City cases from the same batch? Maybe my longer barrel and 223 Rem chamber are why my spread is so much better, but who knows.

So my LC are sort of mix and match. I considered sorting by weight however I was not feeling it at the time and just sorted out 100pcs with the same year LC 19, and put them in a reloading box.

As far as the brass goes it was once fired when I got it and it was in fairly rough shape smashed case mouths big dings in the shoulders and sides of cases. From what I was told it had most likely gone through a belt fed machine gun... I selected brass with none to minimal case dings for my batch of 100. Did a wet tumble, full length small base resize and trimmed. some of the brass was a touch hard to size, seemed a little bloated if that makes any sense.

One other note, I did put a firm crimp on these using the lee factory crimp die. I do the same for all my ammo going through ARs. Not sure how that would effect SD/ES, but it is something to consider. and something I need to test at some point.

I did notice a lot of soot on the brass after firing. Filthy dirty, not really sure what that indicates but it seemed a bit inconsistent with some of my other loads. I am hoping to get an annealer this summer. that might help things a bit.

Your longer barrel may be giving you better consistency. I have done some testing with my 38spl snubbie in relation to powder burn rates and consistency. what I found is that, faster powders provide less velocity, but burn more consistently. while powders that provide the best velocity, often have high SD and ES due to not fully burning in the barrel.

As I understand it compressing powders can also slow the burn rate which could account for the less consistent velocities as well.

But over all I am happy with the 25.2g loading. The velocity is within the acceptable range for what I was trying to accomplish.

[jetinteriorguy]

I’d suggest lose the crimp. I used to crimp all my AR ammo, but after trying without a crimp I had a noticeable increase in accuracy and have never had any problems with enough neck tension. But, I also size first with a body sizing die followed by neck sizing with a Lee collet die. I’ve also turned the necks and anneal on a regular basis. I use nothing but LC brass and I do not bother sorting them. I have developed two loads for 55gr and 62gr bullets that shoot sub MOA consistently, and two loads for 68gr bullets that are 3/4 MOA or under pretty consistently. I’ve also loaded up ten dummies in all the bullets and cycled them manually several times through my AR’s and have had no setback or change in concentricity.