Shotgun Presses; My head Is Spinning

[Shane Tuttle]

I'm about to enter the world of reloading 12 and eventually 20 gauge shotgun. When I started reloading for common cartridges such as 9mm, 45ACP, etc., I bought Lee's Challenger Kit and it held me over until I could afford presses that were of better quality.

That was back in the early-mid 90's. Now, I'm looking into try reloading for my shotguns. The .410 is for my single shot Stevens. Not used very often. If I have to continue to buy off the shelf, that's fine. However, I'd prefer to reload for a 12ga shotgun that's arriving at my FFL soon. Took me months to wrap my head around loading for center-fire ammo. Now, I'm back at square-one with shotgun.

To the point: Is the Lee Load-All 2 a good starter press? I have no problem loading single stage for shotgun. Midway has one for $65. Seems like the next jump is a MEC. But I'm looking at several hundred dollars more to compare to the Lee. I don't have problems spending money for a better quality product to a certain degree. But, does the Lee perform admirably to stay with it or is it a piece of junk and better off looking at an MEC? I would venture to guess I wouldn't shoot more than a few hundred rounds a year if that helps. More for going to the range and occasional hunting than anything else. I purchase Self Defense ammo in lieu of loading my own and single stage is fine for me.

[mehavey]

With the Lee, you are doing most everything "by feel"

With the MEC 600JR, you set the various adjustment points: Wad rammer depth/pressure,
Pre crimp/starter, crimp depth, crimp closure . . . and walk away.
The 410 is particularly finnicky in these areas unless you have that pre-set ability.

Unhesitatingly recommend MEC in that regard.

See https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...#post-12142908

[nhyrum]

I had a mec 600jr and really liked it, and a Pacific 366. I really liked the Pacific machine. I say it's best to find a used mec, the 410 ones are tough to find, and even harder to find parts to convert a 12 gauge or other to 410, but they can be had on eBay for not much. They're dead simple machines and are like the Energizer Bunny(maybe not the bottles) I just checked and there are a number of 12 gauge mecs on eBay for under 100, the 410 ones for 150 for a whole machine, or just the conversion. I'd recommend an adjustable charge bar, since I absolutely despise bushings. I always had to buy three to get just a single one I needed.

I think the biggest issue with reloading shotshell is the high price of shot. When I sold my stuff a few years back(2018 ish) shot was basically 2 bucks a pound online, or I could pay about a buck a pound for reclaimed shot locally

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[eastbank]

mec all the way for me.

[totaldla]

Buy used if possible. The LEE works. The MEC works a little better. If you start with new primed hulls, then all you will care about is crimping and the Lee will do as good as the Mec.
You don't actually need a press - https://youtu.be/affy7nkO3fs

[MarkCO]

I "had" a Lee Load all. It works, but not well and I gave it away. Frankly, it is easier to single load with hand tools and a roll crimper on a drill. I roll crimp for slugs and I have started to roll crimp for some birdshot. Takes about a minute a shell from a fired hull.

I have a MEC and a Texan set up for 12g 1 ounce loads. I don't use either (yet) as I still have shotshells left from pre-panic. It was costing me the same to buy on sale as it was to load for about 15 years, but that appears to have changed.

I do load 16g and 12 into brass hulls using large pistol primers, cards, poly wads and glue. Those brass hulls last a good long time and I can load 25 in about 30 minutes, so a low volume affair.

If I was going to start out, I'd find a good solid roll crimp recipe, spend the $30 on a roll crimp bit and use handtools to deprime and prime and a bench vise with some PVC inserts to hold the hull if you don't want to hold it with a gloved hand while roll crimping. Then save up for a MEC.

I have the Lee adjustable shot dipper that allows me to load 16 and 12 g with a shot cup and I a regular powder dropper for the powder measure. This for the brass hulls and the roll crimping.

[stinkeypete]

For the .410, I am like you. I use about one box of shells every 10 years.

There is a very good video on using the Lee Loader die kit to load .410. Very similar to loading a handgun cartridge without a press.

Deprime, resize the shell, put in primer, powder, then stuff in the wad, then shot, then crimp it shut.

The crimping depends on the volume of powder, length of the wad and volume of shot all stacking up to an exact length for the crimp, so the shell crimps just like factory ammunition.

In some applications, there are fiber wad plugs and tagboard circles that can be used…. So sometimes people will prefer a “roll crimp” (a historical and aesthetic crimp) that requires a round card to hold the shot in place. Sometimes in frustration a fella might use an over shot card to keep those few bits of shot from falling out the end of a crimp.

So… say I wanted to make a .410 load using TSS (tungsten super steel… denser than lead, more expensive than a boat)… I would get a Lee Loader, measure and pour it all by hand, for experimenting.

But the shotgun guys don’t experiment. (Maybe a tiny fraction do, pipe up cowboys.)

You pick a type of shell you will always use, a specific primer, powder and wad. Much time is spent picking collets that drop the closest amount of material as the collet set allows to your recipe. Much time is spent adjusting the crimp settings for perfect crimp.

Then you go about making 100 shells a week, week after week, for weekend clays shooting.

I had bought a MEC Jr with an adjustable throw bar. I was told that it’s better to have two presses than to spend the time switching back and forth, so a JR for 12 and another for 20 may be the way to go.

The adjustable throw bar is good if you want to measure your powder and shot down to the grain. I reload metallic cartridges so that seemed natural.

In practical fact, I set the bar once and never touched it again. Collets are the way to go, in my opinion.

Once I stopped shooting skeet, I sold my press. 20 years later, I wish I had it back. But my wife is gad it wasn’t gathering dust in the basement for 20 years.

I may look for a used MEC JR if someone at the club is selling one used. I could see getting a Lee Load All. My volume would be 25 or 50 shells a week at most, occasionally. Most weeks none at all. Low volume, compared to the serious clays guys. Shipping them is expensive. They’re bulky.

Economically, I don’t care. I don’t like throwing perfectly good shells in the landfill. It’s much more “green” to get good use out of the plastic before discarding it. Besides, it’s much easier to store a couple thousand primers and wads and powder than shot shells… because once this shortage clears up, it’s just the circle of life… there will be another shortage someday and then you’re set.

The Lee unit works, but the MEC is not much more money… esp. considering the price of my shotgun.

Oh, don't forget.. for very low volume there are brass cases for .410 that load like... prime it, dump in the stuff, push in the over powder card then wad with the back end of a pencil and glue the overshot card in place with a couple drops of Elmer's glue.

[mehavey]

Buy used if possible.

MEC 600JRs ~ $75 on eBay

[FITASC]

Quote:
Buy used if possible.
MEC 600JRs ~ $75 on eBay

Maybe 5-10 years ago. Now, most are double that - still a decent enough deal compared to new.

Shane - forget the Lee go with at least a MEC. What volume of shooting do you anticipate? Follow the load recipes available at Alliant and Hodgdon. Shotshell reloading is a lot less exacting compared to metallic - more like "close enough for government work". Remember you do not "work up" loads like metallic. Also realize that the MEC bushing chart showing which bushing to use for which powder is generally incorrect and off by 1 or 2 numbers.

Honestly, though, since you said a few hundred rounds a year, even at today's prices, a flat (250) runs about $100; it will cost you more to get set up in primer costs, powder costs, wad costs, shot costs and the machine itself. I reload a 12 gauge 3/4oz load (cause I'm cheap and do not like recoil). At TODAY'S prices, my reloads will cost my $7/box and my machines were paid for decades ago - and that is buying components in bulk. Personally, for all that hassle, I'd buy a few flats and call it good

[MarkCO]

^Solid advice.

[mehavey]

Maybe 5-10 years ago. Now, most are double that

See https://www.ebay.com/itm/32509679133...sAAOSwwndiLByX
60 sec ago

Absolutely nothing worse than fighting a problem w/o the right tool.

$6/box 12 today's prices (pickup discarded Rem Gun Club) -- $60/case
Double that at this point to buy commercial (when found)
1-1/2 cases to amortize the cost.

OP's call as to worth the time at that point....

[zplinker]

I started with a MEC 600 JR; it worked, but after forcing the hull into the sizing die, THEN BACK OUT, and not having a primer feed, I got rid of it. The Sizemaster that replaced it hasn't missed a lick in 30 years. Buy once, cry once.

[Shane Tuttle]

Thanks for everyones' input. This is helping me put it into perspective and a lot of info I didn't know about (very little time invested in working up loads, etc.).

If a MEC can be had on ebay for a couple hundred bucks, I'll go that route over the Lee.

Originally Posted by FITASC

What volume of shooting do you anticipate? ... Personally, for all that hassle, I'd buy a few flats and call it good

I would venture to guess maybe 500rds/yr. My mother-in-law bought a shotgun recently as well. I'll be loading for her, too. She'll estimate about half that. Valid point on the hassle. I really love to reload. I know it won't be cost effective for some time. It's a hobby that I don't expect to pay for itself. Just something else I'd like to learn while still here on Earth.

[rg1]

Like my Mec Sizemaster. Bought it set up for 12 gauge and bought 20 gauge conversion set. Takes very little time to change from one gauge to the next. Buy the shell checker to adjust the collet sizing die.

[Metal god]

I just started loading 12ga last year maybe 1 and half years ago . Bought the Lee and it seems to work . Just by chance a friend inherited a old MEC but does not load shotgun so he gave it to me . I've not used it yet but it is clearly lightyears better then the Lee based on mechanical feel and sturdiness .



I don't even know how to compare really or give an example because standard presses are all kinda the same but there is no comparison between the plastic Lee and all steel MEC . Maybe a good comparison would be the Lee auto disc and a Redding , RCBS or Hornady powder measure . Yeah the lee works but ........

[Gdawgs]

My $.02

We had a Lee when I was a kid(over 30 years ago). It was an exercise in futility. They are not worth messing with. Soon after my dad gave up on it, he bought a Ponsness Warren 375. What a difference that made. Shells looked as good as factory loads.

I currently have a Mec 600 Jr for 410, and a Ponsness Warren 375 that I use for 20 gauge. I bought the Mec soon after we bought our son a Mossberg 500 and we were going through 2-3 boxes a week. I bought it new from a guy who got it in a box of stuff from an estate sale. Paid that thing off in no time.

The Ponsness Warren is a superior machine to the MEC, much heavier duty, precise, much better tooling, etc. They also cost considerably more as well. BUT, the MEC is perfectly usable and proven. I've loaded many hundreds of 410 and it works great and many many people use them with good success.

Conclusion - You are MUCH better off getting a used MEC, PW, or other high quality presses than getting a new Lee, even if it costs 3-4X.

[HiBC]

I don't even load shotshell, but I'll suggest this. Spend some time at Ballistic Products website.

Those folks know shotshell loading. There is a LOT of knowledge there.

[ocharry]

i have a old MEC 650....god i would hate to think how many thousands of shells it has loaded....me and my ex brother in law used to buy shot by the ton...we did shoot a lot and this old 650 has been there for the whole time cranking out quality shot shells

MEC used to set up a booth at the grand or the ohio state shoot and they would rebuild and up date one of their loaders for free plus parts....my loader was freshened up by them and up graded....and it has loaded another mountain of shot shells since....i would suggest if you get a MEC to get the adjustable bar and skip the bushings.......but if you need bushings i have a sack full from the days before the adjustable bar......which i will probably never use again

my .02

ocharry

[Shane Tuttle]

Thanks, all.

I "sourced" a NOS Lee Loadmaster for a song. I'm going to set it up and check it out. At the same time, I'm going to keep an eye out for a deal on a MEC. Even if the Lee works out, I'll be happy with 2 presses.

Good to know about the adjusting bar in lieu of the bushings.

[Gdawgs]

Originally Posted by HiBC

I don't even load shotshell, but I'll suggest this. Spend some time at Ballistic Products website.

Those folks know shotshell loading. There is a LOT of knowledge there.

This is true. I live fairly close to them and I stop by every once in a while to buy supplies. The guy at the desk is very helpful and a nice dude. If you have issues or questions, he'll be glad to help. The last time I walked in, he remembered what town I lived in. I don't know how he remembered. I hadn't been there in well over a year, and I've only been there a handful of times.

[Gdawgs]

Originally Posted by Shane Tuttle

Thanks, all.

I "sourced" a NOS Lee Loadmaster for a song. I'm going to set it up and check it out. At the same time, I'm going to keep an eye out for a deal on a MEC. Even if the Lee works out, I'll be happy with 2 presses.

Good to know about the adjusting bar in lieu of the bushings.

Hopefully it works for you. If I remember correctly, there was a certain hull and load that worked well in it. But we couldn't get anything else to work well. Most likely you could probably get others to work with some shot column height adjustment(using overshot cards and filler wads). Let us know how it works for you.

[big al hunter]

Even if the Lee works out, I'll be happy with 2 presses.

Careful, that leads to 3 presses. You'll run out of room on your reloading bench.

I started a few years ago with a Lee Load All in 20 GA. Then found a MEC 9000 progressive used for way too little $ to resist. When I arrived to check it out, it was in great shape. And he tossed in 200 empty hulls, 600 wads and an unopened 8 lb jug of powder. The powder was worth more than he was asking for the press. Never been so lucky on a deal. Then I ordered 2 more MEC 600 Jr's for loading 3 inch in 12 and 20 ga.

They're like rabbits.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Mec use here. 410 -20- 12-ga. Tied other shotgun reloaders cheap to expensive. Mec brand are the best tools for my application. And too Ballistic Products is a 10 minute ride away. Components and Mec adapters close by >helps

[Shane Tuttle]

MidSouth has the 600JR in stock. But it says it's adjustable for 3" shells. A bunch of my shells are 2 3/4". Can I still use this one?

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...le-stage-press

[mehavey]

It comes already factory setup for standard 2-3/4.
You can then adjust for larger 3" if desired.

Table-mounting is as simple as a single C-Clamp.