COL differentials for 45 Colt

FoghornLeghorn · June 26, 2021, 11:07 AM

I've just started reloading for 45 Colt for a Winchester branded (Miroku) 1873.

I loaded some rounds using 250 grain lead bullets and now am loading using 200 grain plated. The powder is VihtuVuori N330. VihtuVuori's website gives the minimum for the cartridge/powder combination as 8.0 grains for 876 fps. The maximum is 8.6 grains for 978 fps.

SAAMI specs for the lead bullets for max length is 1.600 inches. Minimum SAAMI length is 1.515 inches. Seating the 250 grain lead bullets to the bullet cannelure gives COL of 1.594 inches.

I've loaded a few 200 grain plated bullets with the same COL of 1.594 inches. There is considerable bullet protruding from the end of the case which makes me wonder about the space inside the case between powder and bullet base.

Recommendations?

**Aguila Blanca** · June 26, 2021, 11:35 AM

What are the lengths of the bullets? When you compare the bullet lengths, it's easy to calculate the difference in case volume behind the bullet.

What COL is listed for that Vihtuvuori load you're using? Is it for the exact bullet you are using, or for some other 250-grain bullet?

FoghornLeghorn · June 26, 2021, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

What are the lengths of the bullets? When you compare the bullet lengths, it's easy to calculate the difference in case volume behind the bullet.

What COL is listed for that Vihtuvuori load you're using? Is it for the exact bullet you are using, or for some other 250-grain bullet?

Actually, VihtuVuori gives COL as 1.594 inch for both bullets.

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading.../?cartridge=54

jetinteriorguy · June 26, 2021, 11:50 AM

If your concern is too much open space, I wouldn’t worry too much. I’d load em and shoot em as long as they cycle ok in the rifle. Some powders aren’t overly position sensitive and the only way to know is to try it. One of the most accurate loads I ever shot in my .357 Henry was a small load of Titegroup and left a lot of space in the case.

milboltnut · June 26, 2021, 12:30 PM

Ok boy we'll learn ya the game.... your load is fine. I say I say you payin attention boy? Most of my loads are compressed.

603Country · June 26, 2021, 03:42 PM

We just loaded up some 255 gr hard cast bullets over Universal. COAL was per the book at 1.575”. Lots of room in the case.

Sarge · June 26, 2021, 03:49 PM

I loaded the 45 Colt for 20 years and thousands of those loads were 7 to 8 1/2 grains of conventional pistols powders appropriate for the Colt SA and clones; generally, Winchester 231 or Universal. Not a problem, ever.

**Aguila Blanca** · June 26, 2021, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoghornLeghorn

Actually, VihtuVuori gives COL as 1.594 inch for both bullets.

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading.../?cartridge=54

They give the same COL for both bullets, but the loads are VERY different. Maybe your first post left something out, but I read it to say that you used the same powder charge for both.

I also note that the 200-grain recipe is for a lead round nose bullet, not plated, and no manufacturer or bullet mold is specified. That means you don't know if your 200-grain plated bullets are the same length as the 200-grain lead bullet they used to work up that load data.

Use the case length, the bullet length, and the COL to calculate how much bullet length is inside the case.

**44 AMP** · June 26, 2021, 10:44 PM

A few points to consider...

1.600" is the industry standard max COAL (loaded cartridge). Its for all bullets, lead, plated or jacketed.

It is not a number you have to load to, it is a number you should not exceed. Bullets seated to where they are supposed to be, and measuring a bit less than 1.600" are FINE.

SAAMI standards are for reliable function in every gun. They are not safety absolutes, or even functional absolutes, they are an agreed on set of standards that will (or should) work in every different make, model, and design in each caliber.

Your particular gun may work with ammo longer than SAAMI spec. It may work with ammo shorter than SAAMI spec. It may not. Only experimenting will tell you.

The .45 Colt is a large case, from the blackpowder days, and standard factory loads run at black powder pressure and velocity levels, With nearly all smokeless powder loads there is some space in the case. This is not a problem, the round is much more tolerant of differecnes in bullet base position than smaller high pressure rounds. What is a serious worry in a "grenade in waiting" like the .40S&W is generally a "no nevermind" in the .45 Colt.

Seat the bullets where they ought to go (crimp groove at the mouth of the case) and check to be sure they're under 1.600" (with normal bullets, they will be) and you're good to go.

If the plated bullets you have are not revolver bullets (no crimp groove) it gets a little trickier, but they can be used. IF possible, get revolver bullets, not semi auto designs.

You really want a proper bullet, with a crimp groove and use a proper crimp when loading for a tube magazine rifle.

Sarge · June 28, 2021, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

A few points to consider...

1.600" is the industry standard max COAL (loaded cartridge). Its for all bullets, lead, plated or jacketed.

It is not a number you have to load to, it is a number you should not exceed. Bullets seated to where they are supposed to be, and measuring a bit less than 1.600" are FINE.

SAAMI standards are for reliable function in every gun. They are not safety absolutes, or even functional absolutes, they are an agreed on set of standards that will (or should) work in every different make, model, and design in each caliber.

Your particular gun may work with ammo longer than SAAMI spec. It may work with ammo shorter than SAAMI spec. It may not. Only experimenting will tell you.

The .45 Colt is a large case, from the blackpowder days, and standard factory loads run at black powder pressure and velocity levels, With nearly all smokeless powder loads there is some space in the case. This is not a problem, the round is much more tolerant of differecnes in bullet base position than smaller high pressure rounds. What is a serious worry in a "grenade in waiting" like the .40S&W is generally a "no nevermind" in the .45 Colt.

Seat the bullets where they ought to go (crimp groove at the mouth of the case) and check to be sure they're under 1.600" (with normal bullets, they will be) and you're good to go.

If the plated bullets you have are not revolver bullets (no crimp groove) it gets a little trickier, but they can be used. IF possible, get revolver bullets, not semi auto designs.

You really want a proper bullet, with a crimp groove and use a proper crimp when loading for a tube magazine rifle.

I in the past 15 years I have loaded more 40 S&W than any other cartridge. If it was a 'grenade in waiting' I would have kicked it to the curb long ago. It is not, but it does require a bit of common sense in loading- like any other pistol cartridge.

June 26, 2021, 11:07 AM	#1
FoghornLeghorn Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2011 Posts: 1,000	COL differentials for 45 Colt I've just started reloading for 45 Colt for a Winchester branded (Miroku) 1873. I loaded some rounds using 250 grain lead bullets and now am loading using 200 grain plated. The powder is VihtuVuori N330. VihtuVuori's website gives the minimum for the cartridge/powder combination as 8.0 grains for 876 fps. The maximum is 8.6 grains for 978 fps. SAAMI specs for the lead bullets for max length is 1.600 inches. Minimum SAAMI length is 1.515 inches. Seating the 250 grain lead bullets to the bullet cannelure gives COL of 1.594 inches. I've loaded a few 200 grain plated bullets with the same COL of 1.594 inches. There is considerable bullet protruding from the end of the case which makes me wonder about the space inside the case between powder and bullet base. Recommendations?

June 26, 2021, 11:35 AM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,042	What are the lengths of the bullets? When you compare the bullet lengths, it's easy to calculate the difference in case volume behind the bullet. What COL is listed for that Vihtuvuori load you're using? Is it for the exact bullet you are using, or for some other 250-grain bullet? __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

June 26, 2021, 03:49 PM	#7
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,495	I loaded the 45 Colt for 20 years and thousands of those loads were 7 to 8 1/2 grains of conventional pistols powders appropriate for the Colt SA and clones; generally, Winchester 231 or Universal. Not a problem, ever. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

June 26, 2021, 10:44 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,467	A few points to consider... 1.600" is the industry standard max COAL (loaded cartridge). Its for all bullets, lead, plated or jacketed. It is not a number you have to load to, it is a number you should not exceed. Bullets seated to where they are supposed to be, and measuring a bit less than 1.600" are FINE. SAAMI standards are for reliable function in every gun. They are not safety absolutes, or even functional absolutes, they are an agreed on set of standards that will (or should) work in every different make, model, and design in each caliber. Your particular gun may work with ammo longer than SAAMI spec. It may work with ammo shorter than SAAMI spec. It may not. Only experimenting will tell you. The .45 Colt is a large case, from the blackpowder days, and standard factory loads run at black powder pressure and velocity levels, With nearly all smokeless powder loads there is some space in the case. This is not a problem, the round is much more tolerant of differecnes in bullet base position than smaller high pressure rounds. What is a serious worry in a "grenade in waiting" like the .40S&W is generally a "no nevermind" in the .45 Colt. Seat the bullets where they ought to go (crimp groove at the mouth of the case) and check to be sure they're under 1.600" (with normal bullets, they will be) and you're good to go. If the plated bullets you have are not revolver bullets (no crimp groove) it gets a little trickier, but they can be used. IF possible, get revolver bullets, not semi auto designs. You really want a proper bullet, with a crimp groove and use a proper crimp when loading for a tube magazine rifle. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 26, 2021, 11:50 AM	#4
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,475	If your concern is too much open space, I wouldn’t worry too much. I’d load em and shoot em as long as they cycle ok in the rifle. Some powders aren’t overly position sensitive and the only way to know is to try it. One of the most accurate loads I ever shot in my .357 Henry was a small load of Titegroup and left a lot of space in the case.

June 26, 2021, 12:30 PM	#5
milboltnut member Join Date: March 22, 2011 Posts: 121	Ok boy we'll learn ya the game.... your load is fine. I say I say you payin attention boy? Most of my loads are compressed.

June 26, 2021, 03:42 PM	#6
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 4,039	We just loaded up some 255 gr hard cast bullets over Universal. COAL was per the book at 1.575”. Lots of room in the case.