Powder valley providing a 'state of the industry'

[ghbucky]

PV has provided an update on how things are from the perspective.

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/relo...dustry-update/

A comment made there caught my attention:

One CEO made it clear he does not care about us. “home loaders”, as customers and that originally we were just a dump when there was surplus after WWII. That it was never intended to be a market. That if they control the production there will no longer be surplus and get few if any primers from now on. The industry wants to restructure loading.

I've never heard anything like this before. Did I miss something or is just internet ramblings?

[Old_School]

Probably just ramblings. It was in a comment to their article.

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[Unclenick]

Sounds like a disgruntled reloader trying to find a reason to believe the shortages are the result of "someone in control" having malevolent intent. Pretty much a form of conspiracy theory, since it would take more than one industry head to make it happen.

I've come to view the Internet as being to information what Photoshop is to photographs. It can be used to make them sharper and clearer or it can be used to make totally believable-looking fakes.

[hounddawg]

an anonymous poster quoting a unnamed CEO of a un named company, uh yeah sure. I gotta bridge........

[hooligan1]

Through all of this, Ive stopped my presses.
Reason being range time, life happens, and powders Id like to use are slim.
What I do is shift focus to other facets of my hobbies, and I dont have any new rifles to load for, so I can wait it out with no discomfort

[IMtheNRA]

Whoever wrote that comment, has no idea what he's talking about.

Except for the part about one industry CEO not giving a rat's ass about hand loaders. That would be Federal. the guy made it pretty clear in his video a couple of months ago.

[ghbucky]

Except for the part about one industry CEO not giving a rat's ass about hand loaders. That would be Federal.

So, apparently there is some truth to the comment. This is what I was looking for.

Thanks.

[edit] I just watched a video from the Federal CEO, and I'm not sure where the dismissive attitude about handloaders is. He basically said everything I already knew, which is that primers are going into trying to keep up with over the top ammo demand so there is no excess primer capacity to reach the market.

[Unclenick]

That's Jason Vanderbrink who is President of not just Federal but also Speer, CCI, and now the Remington ammunition plant. I suspect the comment about not giving a rat's ass for handloaders is based on his description of the primer problem in the second half of this video. He never says he doesn't care. He makes the statement the huge demand uptick (described in the first half of the same video) for ammunition is consuming all their primer capacity. He explains the handloading market has always been fed by the excess primer capacity the companies had after its ammunition demand was met, historically.

Vanderbrink also explains that up until March last year, there was plenty of that excess primer capacity. This past year and continuing into this one, primer capacity is being used up because his choice is, run the ammunition facility for all its worth or let it go idle part of the time to leave primers available for handloaders, while those wanting loaded ammunition would get less. So he has to rob Peter to pay Paul or Paul to pay Peter, and he's chosen to do the one that keeps the most employees working the most hours and that profits the company most. No surprise there; that's his job.

Vanderbrink also explains it takes at least a couple of years to get an additional primer manufacturing facility working. (I know from other reading, the building and environmental permits alone can take over a year to get). Also, as Forbes reported, in the shortage during the first half of the administration before last, the ammunition industry did add capacity. Then, when the last administration arrived and everyone felt their 2nd Amendment rights were safe, people stopped buying, and manufacturers got stuck with a lot of excess capacity that wasn't paying for itself. Forbes says nobody in the industry is looking for a repeat of that.

So no new capacity is planned at this time. This is where I suspect the commenter's conclusion comes from that Vanderbrink doesn't care about handloaders. It is probably why he thinks Vanderbrink wants to create an excess-free business model with no capacity for us. But, again, that's not what Vanderbrink is actually saying. It just is what the situation is right now and he's got to be concerned the rabid demand will back off again at some point and they will once again have all the excess capacity they can handle. I imagine his strategy is to wait to see where the market actually settles out.

[StripesDude]

I’d do the same thing that Vanderbrink is doing. If there is no surplus of components, why sell primers when you can sell loaded ammo? There is a far bigger market for loaded ammo than there is for components sold individually.

[ghbucky]

I’d do the same thing that Vanderbrink is doing. If there is no surplus of components, why sell primers when you can sell loaded ammo? There is a far bigger market for loaded ammo than there is for components sold individually.

He'd be derelict in his duties if he did anything else.

[STORM2]

It appears to me the old “follow the money” rule will win. The demand for ammo and/or components is not gonna fade into the sunset so….I suspect someone somewhere will decide to build new or additional production capacity. There is simply too much money available with almost unlimited customers. It may be offshore, but it’s bound to happen. The prices will not be popular but the money always wins.

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

PV has provided an update on how things are from the perspective.

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/relo...dustry-update/

A comment made there caught my attention:


I've never heard anything like this before. Did I miss something or is just internet ramblings?

The quote was probably taken out of context, so without seeing it or not, it doesn't matter what he says. The CEO is concerned with only one thing, his ass and profits.

If still around when I hit the Reply button, Remington isn't making much profit at reloading components. [I can't remember the last time I bought their primers, but I never even used them.] With that being said, they profit off their ammunition more than anything. Winchester, from my sources, tells me that their primers are made overseas, shipping has had significant issues during the pandemic, so I'm sure that has been a substantial contributor to shortages besides the hoarding.

[IMtheNRA]

Uncle Nick, it makes no difference how much he actually cares about the handloader. The point is he has completely forsaken one subset of his regular customers to serve another one. In the same video, he has the temerity to demand that we "buy American" while starving the hand loaders of a critically needed component. When Federal primers return to the market at $40, and I see that S&B are available for $39, I'll hit the buy button under S&B just to give him my symbolic middle finger.

[ghbucky]

Uncle Nick, it makes no difference how much he actually cares about the handloader. The point is he has completely forsaken one subset of his regular customers to serve another one.

So, your demand is that he forsake other customers for our benefit?

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

So, your demand is that he forsake other customers for our benefit?

Sounds like it. Everyone else can go suck a lemon as long as I get my primers.

Federals profits are not most people's concern irregardless of the fact that the CEO has to do what is most profitable for his company and shareholders.

[IMtheNRA]

Originally Posted by reddog81

Sounds like it. Everyone else can go suck a lemon as long as I get my primers.

Federals profits are not most people's concern irregardless of the fact that the CEO has to do what is most profitable for his company and shareholders.

No.

Lol. You guys have quite an imagination.

[higgite]

The point is he has completely forsaken one subset of his regular customers to serve another one. In the same video, he has the temerity to demand that we "buy American" while starving the hand loaders of a critically needed component.

Or he could have just cut back on excess primer production in the good times and not sold you any primers in the first place.

[IMtheNRA]

Yep. That's an awesome business model, for sure.