More on primers

[Aguila Blanca]

We currently have a thread running by a member who has primers to sell (which he can't ship because he doesn't have the appropriate license) and another thread (at least one) by a member who is looking for primers. All this chatter about the scarcity of primers and the shortage of ammunition has led a friend and me to start investigating both reloading .22 LR, and possibly refurbishing spent primers.

The company that sells the kit for reloading .22 LR ( http://22lrreloader.com/ ) sells priming compound mix ( https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...iming-compound ). My friend has ordered the kit, but it hasn't arrived yet.

While we were starting to discuss the .22 reloading kit, I also stumbled across an article about reloading spent primers. That article suggested using the tips from strike-anywhere matches as the priming compound -- and that's also suggested for loading .22 LR. So that led to the notion of using the .22 Reloader Prime-All mix to rebuilt centerfire primers.

BUT ... then I watched a YouTube video on reloading .22 LR with the kit. I actually watched several videos, but one discussed the Prime-All compound in some detail. Apparently the kit does not identify what the components in the Prime-All kit are, but this YouTube video makes an educated guess that it's the same components that were used by the government arsenal many years ago to make a primer compound called H-48.

And the problem with H-48 is that it's a corrosive primer mix. It works, but it's corrosive. Better than nothing, but not an ideal solution.

Does anyone have a recipe or formula for mixing up priming compound that isn't corrosive?

[ghbucky]

That article suggested using the tips from strike-anywhere matches as the priming compound

My understanding is that this is very corrosive as well.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

My understanding is that this is very corrosive as well.

That wouldn't surprise me at all. It's academic -- I don't think any store in my state sells strike anywhere matches, and some "strike anywhere" matches I bought from Amazon should have been named "stroke nowhere."

[GE-Minigun]

I’ve never looked into reloading primers so take the following for what it’s worth…

How do you get the current primer dent out of the case to allow the next strike to function?

How do you make the anvil or replace it?

Looking from a mechanical stand point those two steps would be a nightmare to do without equipment and that equipment cannot be cheap. Add in the fact, most primers are pretty thin (at least in the base) which to me would lead to pierced primers, which will equal eroded breech faces over time. Also, placing the anvil could get VERY, VERY interesting…imagine an accidental detonation that close to the priming compound and your face…my eyes aren’t good enough to see close up without help.
I think it would be AWESOME to be able to reload primers, even if only a couple times, but as mentioned the equipment cost has me wondering if it would be worth it.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by GE-Minigun

I’ve never looked into reloading primers so take the following for what it’s worth…

How do you get the current primer dent out of the case to allow the next strike to function?

How do you make the anvil or replace it?

I haven't attempted it, either. The article I found (which, unfortunately, I didn't bookmark or I'd happily post a link to it) said that the anvils can be pried out with a sharp tool and reused, and the dents can be hammered out with a small punch.

It has to be a slow, tedious procedure and not something I would undertake except under emergency conditions. Nonetheless, if I can come up with suitable components to mix up some primer, I thought I would try making a few just as "proof of concept."

[GE-Minigun]

Roger that...holy crap that would take days to get a hundred primers ready to reload

[Unclenick]

The problem with non-corrosive mixes will be the relative sensitivity and availablility of the compounds. The old military corrosive mixes were made with potassium chlorate as the oxidizer and various fuel compounds you can buy independently without an explosives license because none of them are explosive by themselves. The modern primers use one of a couple of different forms of lead styphnate, which is a sensitive explosive in its own right, and not just an oxidizer or other component. Same with the new Federal Catalyst primers, which have nitrocellulose in them and which you would need an explosives license to buy and sell in its raw form. I am a little surprised the kit people can sell their mix at all, as it is explosive, but it would be classed as a low explosive where the other two are classed as high explosives that detonate a little too easily and would be of interest to terrorists if they were available.

The bottom line is that you are not going to be able to buy the needed raw materials for non-corrosive primers without special licenses and facilities. This leaves you to make them yourself (also hazardous) or stay with the low explosive type, which are all going to be corrosive.

[ghbucky]

What about that stuff they use to make targets go boom?

[Unclenick]

Tannerite? I don't know what its made of, so I can't say if it is corrosive or not. I would be leary of putting anything too sensitive into primers without a lot of testing to learn how to limit that sensitivity. You don't want recoil or dropping the rounds to set them off.

[ghbucky]

From wikipedia:

The product, developed by Daniel Jeremy Tanner, and initially formulated in 1996,[3] consists of two components: a fuel mixed with a catalyst or sensitizer, and a bulk material or oxidizer. The fuel/catalyst mixture is 90% 600-mesh dark flake aluminium powder, combined with the catalyst that is a mixture of 5% 325-mesh titanium sponge and 5% 200-mesh zirconium hydride[1] (with another patent document[7] listing 5% zirconium hydroxide). The oxidizer is a mixture of 85% 200-mesh ammonium nitrate and 15% ammonium perchlorate.[1] The patents on these formulations were applied for on August 20, 2001.[1][7]

But, it is so stable that it takes a high velocity impact to detonate it. Shotguns or low velocity rounds won't do it, so I doubt a firing pin would do it either.

[robhic]

While we were starting to discuss the .22 reloading kit, I also stumbled across an article about reloading spent primers. That article suggested using the tips from strike-anywhere matches as the priming compound -- and that's also suggested for loading .22 LR. So that led to the notion of using the .22 Reloader Prime-All mix to rebuilt centerfire primers.

Didn't the poster (who's been gone a while) "The Guy From South America" or something like that use matches and stuff to make primers and/or gunpowder? How did he do? Was there any merit to that sort of hard work?

[Aguila Blanca]

Here's a link to one article on the topic. This is not the one I read initially, and this one doesn't make any mention of a foil separator, so I don't know what holds the priming compound in the cup with this method:

https://goneoutdoors.com/make-primer...s-8031176.html

This is the article I read that got me thinking along these lines:

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resourc...imercourse.pdf

[ThomasT]

I had posted a thread asking about the legality of selling some of the small rifle primers I have on hand but have about decided that I am better off keeping them. If you go over to the sister forum thehighroad there is a poster in the black powder section who is making his own powder and IIRC his own percussion caps. But I don't remember his screen name but he is a Texas boy.

And I think he had a link in on of his post for the primer mix and I read over it. Way more work than I care to do myself. The Russian peasants have been reloading 22 rounds for many years using strike anywhere matches. But those matches are gone now as far as I can tell. I think it cost too much to ship them because they are considered and explosive, at least thats what I have read.

But like all things this will be over and you will be able to buy them again. I hope when you all can get them you put back a rainy day stash. Thats what I did after the 1996 primer scare when the rumor went around that primers would be made with just a 6 month shelf life. I was caught short then and said never again.

I looked on THR and the poster I was thinking of is Theoutlawkid. He may even post here.

[Deltadart]

I am not too sure about the .22 reloader kit. I have used it, you mix a small, very small amount of 4 components together to make the primer material. It is fairly safe until mixed, then it is shock sensitive. A tiny amount is dropped into the .22 LR case, a drop of acetone is dropped in, and the primer material is pushed into the rim with a brass rod, or wooden rod. I did this more of a fun project than a necessity, and just to see if I could. I had about a 70% rate of rounds function. Also you need to find a way to lube the .22 bullets you cast. I used Lee tumble lube. Per instructions I used Pyrodex P. There is a bright orange residue on the fired cases. The expended rounds were left on the shooting table for a few days, I went back to get them and they were badly corroded. I don't know if the corrosion is from the priming compound or the Pyrodex or both. An option powder is Unique or 700. I would use Unique next time, the Pyrodex does have a long lock time.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by ghbucky

…so I doubt a firing pin would do it either.

I think you are right. Also, the presence of perchlorate means it will be corrosive. It's chlorine salts that cause a problem. In this czse, the chlorine will combine with hydrogen from disassembled ammonia radicals to make hydrochloric acid that will activate the surface of the steel.

[Deltadart]

Just a little information from CCI. I spoke with them on the telephone a few minutes ago, currently they run 24/7 and are shipping millions of primers to the reloading industry distributors every day. They suggest just keep checking with your dealer, sooner or later you will find some primers.

[Deltadart]

If using the compounds for priming that are corrosive, what is the best way to neutralize the corrosive residue on the rifle? Using on a percussion muzzle loader, or Cap and Ball revolver. Normally I use boiling water and then Ballistol.

[Aguila Blanca]

Windex followed by boiling water generally works.

[TruthTellers]

I think it would be better to focus on reloading .22 rimfire and forget about centerfire. If it's possible, I would focus on using the compound to load .22 Mag and I would shoot it from a rifle. Clean the bore good and the corrosive issue won't be much of one.

At least after this latest panic us reloaders will have learned to keep at least 10k small pistol primers on hand at all times.

IDK when the primer situation is going to get straightened out, but at the rate we're going I'm gonna seriously consider taking up shooting matchlocks.

[rc]

I wouldn't waste my time to make sub standard primers and trying to reload 22 LR for a little bit of unreliable ammo. You would have to be end of days desperate for that kind of activity. Be patient, it will come back into stock and learn to stock up when things are good. I over bought small rifle primers 5 or 6 years ago knowing they are versatile enough to work in many pistol loads too! Been using them to load 38 super and some 357 loads saving my softer primers for other calibers.

[Deltadart]

Very true, I can tell from personal experience reloading .22LR is painfully slow. I did it as a fun project and to see if I could. It does work, sorta, the rounds are accurate at 50 yds and you can vary the powder charge to get high velocity or sub sonic for a fairly quite shot. The kit cast two styles of bullets. The standard heeled 40 is my choice, over the CB cap projectile, however it needs to be lubed, there is a groove for that, but I just used the Lee tumble lube. The very slow part is the priming. I tried dropping in a 3/16 punch, light tap with a brass hammer to pop out the old dent from the previous shot. That is a waste of time, and may weaken the case. Then you need to clean the rim, with the small bass tool included in the kit. This takes a little time, not much but is one more step, as in reloading a rifle case. The mixed priming compound is dropped in and acetone drop behind that. Priming compound must be worked into the rim, takes a little time, but is critical. Allowed to dry for 30 minutes to several hours depending on RH. Then a scoop of powder, the double ended scoop is included. By using one or both ends of the scoop a variety of loads can be achieved from different powders. Put the bullet in and crimp. All in all it is reloading like any basic kit, not like on a Dillon 550. While .22LR are available at low prices it is not a great idea. However, a few years ago .22s were very difficult if not impossible to get in our neck of the woods. Who knows how long this frustration will go on. The kit works and I think with some practice production can be speeded up significantly. The priming compound is corrosive. It can also be used to make percussion caps with the old Tap O Cap or the similar tool from .22reloader. This is a fairly quick process using soda pop cans to punch primer cups from, mix compound, drop into the cup, a drop of acetone, and let them dry. They go bang very well.

[TruthTellers]

This has me interested now because, while I'd never bother doing it with .22 LR, I would for .22 Mag. It's more powerful than .22 LR, costs more than .22 LR, and with it not being a heeled bullet there's a lot of options out there for 30 to 50 grain projectiles.

Are there any good videos of people reloading .22 (or other rimfire calibers) on the internet?

[mehavey]

Strike anywhere ....

Description: Phosphorus sesquisulfide, free from yellow and white
phosphorus appears as a yellow crystalline solid. ... Forms sulfur dioxide
and phosphorus pentaoxide during combustion. Reacts with water
to form phosphoric acid, a corrosive material.

Bad juju.....

[Deltadart]

The company that makes the .22 LR reloading kit has a .22 magnum kit as well. I no longer have a .22 magnum so I did not try that kit. It appears the kit has similar bullet molds, however the projectiles are the same. As you said there are several bullet options, plus dies for lubing on a RCBS or Lyman lube sizer. In the LR kit one is a 40 and the other a 29 gr. I think procedures are the same just adjust powder weight.

22lrreloader.com

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Truth Tellers

This has me interested now because, while I'd never bother doing it with .22 LR, I would for .22 Mag. It's more powerful than .22 LR, costs more than .22 LR, and with it not being a heeled bullet there's a lot of options out there for 30 to 50 grain projectiles.

https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...f-reloader-kit

They also sell a sizing die for the .22 magnum,

Are there any good videos of people reloading .22 (or other rimfire calibers) on the internet?

There are several on YouTube. I haven't watched them all so I can't say how good or bad most of them are. Of those I have watched, only one has mentioned that the Prime-All compound is probably corrosive, and the company that sells the stuff doesn't mention that on their web site.