Methods for Reloading

[LilPewPew]

So I was wondering if it'd be cheaper in the long run for me to reload like regular; Buy bullets, powder, primers, and brass (as needed). Or reloading in a "prepper" type way; cast bullets, trade brass for primers and powder. If it matters I would be reloading 5.56 mainly.

[reddog81]

Cast bullets aren't common in 5.56. It's possible but not something I'd suggest for a new reloader.

Trading surplus brass for powder and primers might work. You'd have to have a lot of brass and find someone who's willing to do the trade. Again its possible but probably not feasible for most people.

[Rangerrich99]

I agree with reddog; it's hard to find cast .223 rem, IME. I have seen them occasionally, so I know it can be done. Also casting bullets is a separate skill from reloading in general. I'd focus first on producing a decent bullet with manufactured materials. Once you're competent and know what a good bullet should look like/shoot like, then I'd maybe try my hand at casting .223 (.224) projectiles.

In the long run it might be possible for someone to trade for materials, butt at first I'd just buy everything just so you know what you're working with initially.

[Dufus]

You don't wanna shoot cast bullets in a 5.56

[FITASC]

5.56 bullets in bulk are cheap enough; buy powder in 8# jugs - 2/case; primers by the sleeve of 5,000 2+ sleeves at a time. minimizes the freight/hazmat costs

[Pathfinder45]

I have picked up so darn much once-fired 5.56 brass from the rock quarries that I think it can't be worth much more than its metal content, unless a fellow really needs some. It's like 9mm brass; people give it away to those in need as a favor. Sometimes it goes to the scrapyard because nobody wants anymore of it. Other calibers of brass often have a lot more value. It's a supply-and-demand thing. Both 5.56 and 9mm, are among the cheapest centerfire calibers to buy factory-loaded, and thus offer the least savings to reload; though there may be other incentives to do so. As far as the concept of the, "prepper", goes, there are a lot of diverse views on that idea, including some that are less than positive. However, as every good Boy Scout knows, "Be Prepared.". For what? Well I think most of us can agree that, if we have learned anything at all over the last several years, we need to be prepared for shortages.

[Don Fischer]

I wouldn't trade for materials. You trade brass for primers and then primer's for brass? What's the point. I don't know how inexpensive casting is anymore. I've got a lifetime supply of lead I collected over the years and it was free, no idea what it cost to buy it! For myself, having all that lead, if I wanted to cut cost I would go lead bullet's! But again, I wouldn't need to buy lead!

Loading your own ammo really isn't very inexpensive unless you shoot a whole lot. Problem being trying to make up for the cost of tools! But there are way's around that being those old Lee handloaders if they are still around or the Lyman hand type tools. I started with the Lee tool and it worked. My ammo was adequate, no more! But it was very shootable and inexpensive. My Lee hand tool was $9.95 in those days! You might think of a Lee, or Lyman, tool and get a powder scale rather than using those little plastic powder dipper's!

[GTOne]

Forget the prepper way.

Buy a small press like the Lee hand press, and the 2 die set. Don't go for the Lee loader(hammer powered), that just neck sizes and one might run in to trouble that way. This is to see if it is for you. The buying in bulk thing is when you are sure you are going to like doing it. It is the way to go to save money.

The main issue with cast bullets is that when you push them hard enough to cycle an AR, they start falling apart.

[hounddawg]

Don't know how some here shoot their AR when I go on a plinking spree a minimum of 100 rounds goes downrange. Of course you full length resize 100 or more rounds a week using a hand press and you could enter body building contests after a few months

[GTOne]

Yay for posts taken out of context. ^

[Dufus]

The main issue with cast bullets is that when you push them hard enough to cycle an AR, they start falling apart.

Never heard that one before.....or saw it or experienced it.

I always thought the AR was gas operated, not bullet operated.

[Nathan]

What are you asking?

The key is development a load, then buy components in bulk.

I like to load 5.56 in lots of 1000.

My last load:
Xtreme 55 gr fmj
CFE223
CCI #41

On mixed range brass bulk case prepped by me....took a few weeks to produce.

[hdwhit]

Dufus said:
Never heard that one before.....or saw it or experienced it.

I've pushed Hornady SX (thin jacket) bullets above 2800 fps and seen whisps of grey "smoke" about 50 yards downrange and no hole in the target. And since 2800 fps is well within the range of velocities that the 223/5.56 can attain, bullet disintegration is not only possible but something that has been observed in practice.

[jmorris]

For 5.56 right now, maybe cheaper just to buy cheap factory ammunition, if thats the only goal you have. It would likely be better than whatever cast ammunition you could cast/load after spending hundreds of dollars in equipment, not to mention more than a few hours learning the process.

[jmorris]

I've pushed Hornady SX (thin jacket) bullets above 2800 fps and seen whisps of grey "smoke" about 50 yards downrange and no hole in the target.

I have seen that too, with Speer bullets intended for the 1:14 twist .224 rifles but put in use in fast twist 1:7 in my case. Centrifugal force caused the bullet to come apart upon exit of the barrel, disintegrating and never making it to the target.

Kind of like taking an engine that’s good for 6000 rpm and running it to 12,000 rpm, things might come apart.

[Nathan]

For 5.56 right now, maybe cheaper just to buy cheap factory ammunition, if thats the only goal you have.

Depends how you value your time.....

Per 1000
Xtreme 55 gr - $80
CFE223 - $85 4 lbs from and 8 lb jug
CCI #41 - $50
Unprepped LC brass - $80/5 reloadings = $16
$231 per 1000. What is your time worth? What is the better accuracy worth? These are 1.25 MOA loads. XM193 is 2 MOA in my rifle.

XM193.....typically $300 per 1000 to your door.

[jmorris]

Depends how you value your time.....

Per 1000
Xtreme 55 gr - $80
CFE223 - $85 4 lbs from and 8 lb jug
CCI #41 - $50
Unprepped LC brass - $80/5 reloadings = $16
$231 per 1000. What is your time worth? What is the better accuracy worth? These are 1.25 MOA loads. XM193 is 2 MOA in my rifle.

Don’t get me wrong, I reload .223 and likely have one of the least time consuming methods here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw

Trimming is done before that load pass but is still done on a progressive, just as fast.

I buy my components in bulk but let’s use your example, you pay $231/1000 assuming all of the equipment you use to do so was given to you for free or you have to add that in. It will be a larger factor for the first thousand but by the time you hit 100,000 it doesn’t effect that last 1000 much at all.

At any rate let’s say you have $231 per 1000, how much time do you have in loading the first thousand, picking up the thousand pieces of brass, cleaning them, sizing/depriming and trimming them, then loading them again? Now you have $462 in 2000 rounds for X amount of time.

Or you could call up these guys and pay $225/1000 for a total of $450 in 2000 rounds and won’t even bend over to pick up the cases because they are worthless.
https://www.luckygunner.com/tula-223...tulablack-1000

That’s why I said, if cheap is the op’s only goal, right now, not starting is cheaper. Not to mention even that stuff would outperform pretty much any cast bullet .223 load one could come up with.

[LilPewPew]

Originally Posted by FITASC

5.56 bullets in bulk are cheap enough; buy powder in 8# jugs - 2/case; primers by the sleeve of 5,000 2+ sleeves at a time. minimizes the freight/hazmat costs

Or I could pick it up from a store and pay $0 for hazmat fees.

[FITASC]

And generally higher prices plus sales tax. Whatever works for you. Where I live, some stores think $235/8# of rifle powder is the way to go when online it is $135...........

[JeepHammer]

As a gunsmith, 'Preppers' are a never ending source of income.
That should tell you something about 'Prepper Ways' of doing things...

Barrels so leaded you can't find the rifling, lead in gas systems, brass carved up so bad they can't get it out of the chamber...

You CAN make your own black powder, I tried it ONCE... I'd use a bow & arrow rather than go through that again!
You can forget trying to make high velocity powder.

The biggest waste of time I've ever seen is trying to recycle primers!
7/10 won't work and the ones that do often squib, nothing like ejecting 6 rounds just in time to beat the bullet out of the barrel on the 7th...

'Preppers' ALWAYS do things the hardest and/or most expensive way for some reason.
I got to go with Mr. Morris on this one, if it's 'Prepper' stockpile, there is loaded ammo WAY cheaper than you can buy first quality components & build the ammo.
Keep in mind, it's actually just as easy (maybe even easier) to store loaded ammo than components.
The cheap China & Russian ammo is abundant & cheap again, while quality US made components are available, but not 'Cheap' and there is labor & loading equipment to be considered...

I buy milbrass 1/2-1 MILLION at a time, once cleaned (slow), I can process at 700-900 an hour.
Done correctly with first quality components I can crank out 1 MOA (+/-) ammo at around 700 an hour.
This is with $10,000 worth of equipment.
How much ammo can you buy with $10,000 and never touch a reloader, your labor consists of moving from cardboard boxes to ammo cans...

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I agree, learning with known, first quality components is most certainly the way to go.
You won't find loads in the manual for 'Traded Powder' or 'Recycled Primers', go with high quality components so you get the PROCESS correct, and you learn things like pressure signs.
Cranking out a case that fits the chamber *SOUNDS* simple, but you would be surprised how many screw that up on a regular basis, particularly if they are loading ammo for more than one firearm.

I STRONGLY suggest you get a manual index press, either a single die press, or something like a Lee 'Turret' (tool head, 3 or 4 dies you can rotate in a tool head) and learn the 'Slow' way of doing things.
Once you develop a process that excludes the possibility of no charge/double charge, and can produce a useable round, then work up to volume.
There are a TON of mistakes you want to work out before you try and produce a reasonable 'Standard' round... Getting in a hurry makes things 10 times more complicated.

DO NOT try to load to any 'Maximum' right off the bat!
You will find that most rifles function better when not loaded to Max, and even more find accuracy nodes BELOW the Maximum published charge weight.

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If you want to stockpile for cheap, try pulled bullets.
A 'Soft' bullet, copper over lead core, can be pretty screwed up and still be 'Safe' to shoot.
Keep in mind, anything in front of the 'Ogive' doesn't really matter since it doesn't contact the bore.
People load bullets backwards in the cases and they still 'Shoot', so the point can be missing and the bullet still 'Shoot'.
(Ogive, the point on the bullet where it gets large enough to contact the bore)

Most pulled bullets will show pull marks, but they are fine to shoot, not many will be seriously mangled.

Pulled bullets are WAY below scrap weight since they are mixed metals, but be prepared to buy 10,000 at a time.
They won't cost much, but consider what 10,000 bullets weigh before you buy.
Some lots of pulled bullets can easily be 50,000 to 500,000, so be ready for that and check the weight before you buy...

For instance,
55 grain FMJ, military standard bullets, around 127 to the pound,
2,000/2,500 pounds in a bulk bin isn't uncommon.
2,000 pounds is about 254,000 bullets. (Bring friends!)
The bad news is several dozen to several hundred pounds at a time, the good news, 10 to 30 cents a pound. That's cents, not dollars.


Pulled powder is pretty cheap also, I don't mess with it but there is a lot of it available.
Keep in mind to buy pulled powder, you WILL have to clear a government background check...
Which, in typical government style, takes 6-8 weeks.

Be careful when you work your loads up, sometimes it's mixed powder so you want to check/work up when you open a new jug.
I've heard horror stories, never actually seen it since I don't use pulled powder.

This is going to sound crazy, so bolt yourself down...
Brass comes out of the tear down process with the primer intact sometimes, but don't assume decommissioned brass will still have the primer in place, check the lot before you buy it.
Useable brass takes a government background check, again 6-8 weeks.

If the primers are in place, the first thing you want to do is dry them out.
Food dehydrator for a few hours usually does the trick.
Test several, simply chamber the brass and let the firing pin hit it.
If they all fire, they are probably dry and will work.
Military primers are a little 'Hard' when compared to civilian primers, but they are also hot enough to ignite about all powders.

I've seen people put primed cases in the oven! I don't recommend this for obvious reasons!

I've never used a decommissioned primer, and never will. I won't even consider a primer that's been installed then punched back out.
I've seen them, the decommissioned primers are virtually free, I still won't use them.

[T. O'Heir]

Less expensive to buy components locally in bulk, but not until you have worked up a load.
Trading .223 brass for primers isn't cost effective. Midway wants $59.99 per 500 for once fired .223 brass as well as 1,000 CCI SR BR primers. Both are easy to come by.
"...You CAN make your own black powder..." Yep. You're making a low grade explosive that will settle out into its 3 components during travel.

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by LilPewPew

Or I could pick it up from a store and pay $0 for hazmat fees.

If your buying a couple pounds at a time that makes sense. If your buying 5 lbs or more online is the way to go.

[Rangerrich99]

Wow. Some of you guys are paying a lot more than I am for powder and primers. I just picked up 8 lbs. of CFE223 for $154 and a box of CCI no. 41 primers for $35 from my local shooters supply.. For once I feel like I'm getting a bit of a deal . . .

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

You're making a low grade explosive that will settle out into its 3 components during travel.

If that were true, commercially-made black powder couldn't be shipped to stores or carried in a powder horn, much less have traveled in rattling old-fashioned horse-drawn wagons, as once it was. Only if you ground the constituents coarsely and didn't mix them intimately would there be any serious separation issue, and powder that coarse doesn't burn very well in the first place.


Running bare cast bullets through a gas gun will see lead gas cutting at the bullet bases as they pass over the gas port, depositing the lead in the port until it clogs. You could try it with cast bullets with gas checks, but I suspect you'll find powder charges that operate the gas system properly are too high for the bullets in many instances. There are people who are able to get cast bullets up to jacketed bullet velocities, but it takes some careful work and experimentation.

I've tried casting .22 bullets before and found it a PITA as it can be difficult to cast fast enough to keep up a good mold temperature, and every little inclusion or other defect is, percentage-wise, a bigger issue with a little bullet than with a larger one. Same with mold gaps or inexact registration. So, perfecting little cast bullet balance is difficult, and thus good accuracy from them can be elusive. Besides, if you find you are having to buy some special items to make these little guys work well, then you haven't really broken your dependency on the supply chain anyway, so why not just stockpile a bunch of jacketed bullets in place of special bullet lubes and gas checks or buying gas check making dies or stocking up on powder coat resin? Plus, most bullet casting furnaces run on electricity or propane, neither of which would necessarily be available in an apocalyptic scenario. You'd be way better off with ten or twenty-thousand finished bulk bullets. Stored in sealed boxes with a desiccant, they won't go bad for centuries. Your powder will, but those bullets will be practically forever. The powder is something you'll have to figure out how to keep frozen to ensure long life.

[Don Fischer]

Someone say's 5.56 and we immediately assume it's an auto. I've had two 223's and never shot 5.56 in them but if I still had one I would give it a try! I don't believe a 5.56 would damage a strong bolt action rifle. I've never shot 5.56 because loading 223 is so inexpensive. Get cast bullet's and a supply of 5.56 mty case's and load for a bolt action using 223 data, bet it works fine.