Dillon Carbide Crimp die

Stats Shooter · January 20, 2018, 07:16 AM

Quick question.

I just got a new straight walled pistol Dillon Carbide 3 Die set to load on my 550 C.
Is the Dillon taper crimp die similar to the Lee FCD? As I understand it, both are taper crimp dies and I don't want to buy the Lee FCD if I don't need too. But in my other toolheads with Lee FCD's I need not trim for a good consistent crimp. I'm hopeful Dillon is the same in their carbide pistol sets.

NoSecondBest · January 20, 2018, 10:16 AM

I have used Dillon progressive presses for quite a long time and I wasn't aware that they made a carbide crimp die. I have carbide sizing dies, but no crimp dies. If they make one it's news to me. However, I guess this old dog could learn a new trick. Are you sure it's a carbide crimping die?

rock185 · January 27, 2018, 12:57 AM

Stats, I've used Dillon equipment for many years. It is durable, well engineered equipment with top notch customer support. Within my humble experience, handgun caliber cases are rarely as long as the max. case dimension. And if a case is at max., most handgun chambers are reamed such that even a max. length case chambers without issue. I do not trim cases in any straight walled handgun caliber. I've also used the Lee FCD. I much prefer the Dillon taper crimp die, whatever it is made of. My Lee FCD is rather roughly finished internally, and that roughness is apparent during crimping, and on the loaded ammunition. I actually polished the FCD to remove some of the roughness. No offense intended to anyone who admires Lee equipment, but to me, the Lee equipment I've used is about one step above Toys-R-Us quality.......ymmv

BTW, I have used other manufacturer's dies in a Dillon 550 press, but much prefer to use Dillon dies...

BigJimP · January 27, 2018, 01:58 AM

All of Dillons 3 die sets for pistol...are carbide / even the crimp die.

I have used Dillons dies for at least 25 yrs on a 650....no, you will not need the Lee die in my experience.

I have never trimmed a handgun case either....and I load and shoot about 25,000 rds of 9mm a year ....mostly thru a match grade barrel in a 1911.....( and all the cases I reload are a mix of headstamps, that I sweep up weekly from concrete range floors .../ ...some may be once fired cases...some may be reloaded and fired 10 or more times... ).

buck460XVR · January 27, 2018, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJimP

All of Dillons 3 die sets for pistol...are carbide / even the crimp die.

I don't think so.

locknloader · January 27, 2018, 08:30 AM

@rock185 - I agree with your assessment of the lee dies. I was shocked when someone told me to check the inside of the lee dies and I saw tooling marks all over surfaces that made contact with the case in my resizing die.

Any quality tool should be free of tooling marks, especially if the surface is designed to contact something else. It should be polished up to a mirror finish.

No more lee dies for this guy (the two i do own were part of a package deal, thank god the rest were hornady dies they seem to be much better quality. though i am sure there are even better than hornady out there)

You can tell by the design that lee dies are made to be cheap as possible, they are extremely short as to minimize materials cost for the steel, and the visible tooling marks. They do get the job done, don't get me wrong, but i'd rather use better quality tools.

Stats Shooter · January 27, 2018, 09:56 AM

So far so good. The Dillon crimp die was pretty easy to setup and crimps have been consistent on my load development ammo.

I didn't want to begin a Lee die discussion.....The only Lee equipment I own are a couple collet neck dies and factory crimp dies. The rest is all Redding, Forster, RCBS, Dillon et,.

Anyway, I think the Dillon pistol carbide dies work great. The seating die, just like all Dillon seating dies, is a PITA to get setup. But once it is set it does a great job. All my test ammo has a consistent COAL.

jmorris · January 27, 2018, 10:39 AM

Quote:

All of Dillons 3 die sets for pistol...are carbide / even the crimp die.

Pretty easy to disprove that, just pull the retainer off the seating die and drop the guts out, they are not carbide and neither is the body.

gwpercle · January 27, 2018, 11:35 AM

Lee FCD's are useful for the reloader who has trouble setting up a conventional seating and crimping die. If you know how and are willing to do the proper adjustments a standard die works fine. The Lee FCD is an easy out for the reloaders who can't get the hang of die adjustment.
You don't NEED a Lee FCD to reload proper ammo. I bet I'm not the only one who doesn't own one and I've been reloading for over 50 years.
Gary

**Unclenick** · January 27, 2018, 12:13 PM

If you load heavy magnum rounds among your straight wall cases, take a look at the Redding profile crimp die. It combines a taper and a roll crimp to get maximum bullet pull to prevent bullets backing out of the case when fired in a revolver.

F. Guffey · January 27, 2018, 12:26 PM

Quote:

I agree with your assessment of the lee dies. I was shocked when someone told me to check the inside of the lee dies and I saw tooling marks all over surfaces that made contact with the case in my resizing die.

And I said the seating die does not have case body support

And then there was the reloader that had a mad-on for Herter dies, he despised them. I explained to him Herter made different dies for different purposes, he purchased neck sizing die thinking the dies were full length sizing dies, the criteria he used when purchasing dies was 'THE CHEAPEST'. He never thanked me for my help. There was no reason for finishing the die.

F. Guffey

BigJimP · January 27, 2018, 01:10 PM

https://www.dillonprecision.com/dill...8_4_24445.html

Dillon says they are carbide...and they sure look like carbide to me.

NoSecondBest · January 27, 2018, 02:27 PM

They may be carbide, but Dillon doesn't specifically say they are. In the first description they specifically mention the carbide sizing ring in the sizing die. They do not mention it in the crimping die description. I'd think a phone call would be in order to find out for sure. Lee specifically says their crimping die is carbide in their description. (I've been looking around. I guess someone, at least Lee, makes carbide crimping dies).

Jim Watson · January 27, 2018, 02:54 PM

Seems like we have a failure to communicate here.

The only carbide in a Dillon (and most other) carbide die set is the sizing ring at the very mouth of the sizing die. Hardened steel on brass is adequate for expand, seat, and crimp dies.
Dillon (and most other) crimp die does nothing but crimp the mouth of the case on the bullet.

The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp is the oddball.
It has a carbide sizing ring at the mouth of the die, just like the insert on the sizing die. In fact, the first CFC dies were pretty much free for them, they had a "closet full" of reject slightly oversize inserts not usable for full length case sizing.

This insert has nothing to do with the crimp on the case mouth.
What it does is "post size" the loaded round. It will iron out lumps and bulges from thick brass, oversize bullets, and crooked seating alignment. It also has less taper and radius and will size farther down on the case wall than the Dillon sizing die. My 9mm CFC die hardly ever even touches the case neck over the bullet, but leaves a burnished band a little above the extractor groove.

You will be told that this also distorts the bullets and impairs accuracy. Maybe so, but if I am out for best accuracy, I am loading matched brass and quality bullets that don't need the post sizing. But when I am loading cheap bulk ammo, I am more interested in reliable feeding and free chambering than I am the X ring.

In fact there are people with philosophical objections to the device who have knocked the carbide insert out and used the crimp sleeve for a plain conventional taper or roll crimp.

BigJimP · January 27, 2018, 04:05 PM

That makes sense Jim...thanks.

rodfac · January 27, 2018, 09:54 PM

Quote:

The only carbide in a Dillon (and most other) carbide die set is the sizing ring at the very mouth of the sizing die. Hardened steel on brass is adequate for expand, seat, and crimp dies. Dillon (and most other) crimp die does nothing but crimp the mouth of the case on the bullet.

Yep...Rod

T. O'Heir · January 28, 2018, 02:55 PM

"...Dillon says they are carbide..." Carbide die sets mean the sizer die has a carbide insert. It doesn't mean the whole set is made with carbide inserts. Bullet seating and crimping doesn't require lube and therefore they don't need to be carbide. You'll note that Dillion's picture clearly shows just the sizer has the insert.
Carbide isn't easily machined and is brittle stuff too.

January 20, 2018, 07:16 AM	#1
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	Dillon Carbide Crimp die Quick question. I just got a new straight walled pistol Dillon Carbide 3 Die set to load on my 550 C. Is the Dillon taper crimp die similar to the Lee FCD? As I understand it, both are taper crimp dies and I don't want to buy the Lee FCD if I don't need too. But in my other toolheads with Lee FCD's I need not trim for a good consistent crimp. I'm hopeful Dillon is the same in their carbide pistol sets.

January 27, 2018, 12:57 AM	#3
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,119	Stats, I've used Dillon equipment for many years. It is durable, well engineered equipment with top notch customer support. Within my humble experience, handgun caliber cases are rarely as long as the max. case dimension. And if a case is at max., most handgun chambers are reamed such that even a max. length case chambers without issue. I do not trim cases in any straight walled handgun caliber. I've also used the Lee FCD. I much prefer the Dillon taper crimp die, whatever it is made of. My Lee FCD is rather roughly finished internally, and that roughness is apparent during crimping, and on the loaded ammunition. I actually polished the FCD to remove some of the roughness. No offense intended to anyone who admires Lee equipment, but to me, the Lee equipment I've used is about one step above Toys-R-Us quality.......ymmv BTW, I have used other manufacturer's dies in a Dillon 550 press, but much prefer to use Dillon dies... __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

January 27, 2018, 01:58 AM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	All of Dillons 3 die sets for pistol...are carbide / even the crimp die. I have used Dillons dies for at least 25 yrs on a 650....no, you will not need the Lee die in my experience. I have never trimmed a handgun case either....and I load and shoot about 25,000 rds of 9mm a year ....mostly thru a match grade barrel in a 1911.....( and all the cases I reload are a mix of headstamps, that I sweep up weekly from concrete range floors .../ ...some may be once fired cases...some may be reloaded and fired 10 or more times... ). Last edited by BigJimP; January 27, 2018 at 02:06 AM.

January 27, 2018, 12:13 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,733	If you load heavy magnum rounds among your straight wall cases, take a look at the Redding profile crimp die. It combines a taper and a roll crimp to get maximum bullet pull to prevent bullets backing out of the case when fired in a revolver. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 20, 2018, 10:16 AM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	I have used Dillon progressive presses for quite a long time and I wasn't aware that they made a carbide crimp die. I have carbide sizing dies, but no crimp dies. If they make one it's news to me. However, I guess this old dog could learn a new trick. Are you sure it's a carbide crimping die?

January 27, 2018, 08:30 AM	#6
locknloader Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2017 Posts: 164	@rock185 - I agree with your assessment of the lee dies. I was shocked when someone told me to check the inside of the lee dies and I saw tooling marks all over surfaces that made contact with the case in my resizing die. Any quality tool should be free of tooling marks, especially if the surface is designed to contact something else. It should be polished up to a mirror finish. No more lee dies for this guy (the two i do own were part of a package deal, thank god the rest were hornady dies they seem to be much better quality. though i am sure there are even better than hornady out there) You can tell by the design that lee dies are made to be cheap as possible, they are extremely short as to minimize materials cost for the steel, and the visible tooling marks. They do get the job done, don't get me wrong, but i'd rather use better quality tools.

January 27, 2018, 09:56 AM	#7
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	So far so good. The Dillon crimp die was pretty easy to setup and crimps have been consistent on my load development ammo. I didn't want to begin a Lee die discussion.....The only Lee equipment I own are a couple collet neck dies and factory crimp dies. The rest is all Redding, Forster, RCBS, Dillon et,. Anyway, I think the Dillon pistol carbide dies work great. The seating die, just like all Dillon seating dies, is a PITA to get setup. But once it is set it does a great job. All my test ammo has a consistent COAL.

January 27, 2018, 11:35 AM	#9
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,914	Lee FCD's are useful for the reloader who has trouble setting up a conventional seating and crimping die. If you know how and are willing to do the proper adjustments a standard die works fine. The Lee FCD is an easy out for the reloaders who can't get the hang of die adjustment. You don't NEED a Lee FCD to reload proper ammo. I bet I'm not the only one who doesn't own one and I've been reloading for over 50 years. Gary

January 27, 2018, 01:10 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	https://www.dillonprecision.com/dill...8_4_24445.html Dillon says they are carbide...and they sure look like carbide to me.

January 27, 2018, 02:27 PM	#13
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	They may be carbide, but Dillon doesn't specifically say they are. In the first description they specifically mention the carbide sizing ring in the sizing die. They do not mention it in the crimping die description. I'd think a phone call would be in order to find out for sure. Lee specifically says their crimping die is carbide in their description. (I've been looking around. I guess someone, at least Lee, makes carbide crimping dies).

January 27, 2018, 02:54 PM	#14
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,167	Seems like we have a failure to communicate here. The only carbide in a Dillon (and most other) carbide die set is the sizing ring at the very mouth of the sizing die. Hardened steel on brass is adequate for expand, seat, and crimp dies. Dillon (and most other) crimp die does nothing but crimp the mouth of the case on the bullet. The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp is the oddball. It has a carbide sizing ring at the mouth of the die, just like the insert on the sizing die. In fact, the first CFC dies were pretty much free for them, they had a "closet full" of reject slightly oversize inserts not usable for full length case sizing. This insert has nothing to do with the crimp on the case mouth. What it does is "post size" the loaded round. It will iron out lumps and bulges from thick brass, oversize bullets, and crooked seating alignment. It also has less taper and radius and will size farther down on the case wall than the Dillon sizing die. My 9mm CFC die hardly ever even touches the case neck over the bullet, but leaves a burnished band a little above the extractor groove. You will be told that this also distorts the bullets and impairs accuracy. Maybe so, but if I am out for best accuracy, I am loading matched brass and quality bullets that don't need the post sizing. But when I am loading cheap bulk ammo, I am more interested in reliable feeding and free chambering than I am the X ring. In fact there are people with philosophical objections to the device who have knocked the carbide insert out and used the crimp sleeve for a plain conventional taper or roll crimp.

January 27, 2018, 04:05 PM	#15
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	That makes sense Jim...thanks.

January 28, 2018, 02:55 PM	#17
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...Dillon says they are carbide..." Carbide die sets mean the sizer die has a carbide insert. It doesn't mean the whole set is made with carbide inserts. Bullet seating and crimping doesn't require lube and therefore they don't need to be carbide. You'll note that Dillion's picture clearly shows just the sizer has the insert. Carbide isn't easily machined and is brittle stuff too.