French? gun?

thirtysixford · January 19, 2018, 09:50 PM

Inherited several firearms Most easy to identify

this one a wall hanger. very crude repairs would not ever attempt to fire it.
seems converted to cartridge 11mm
my father said he bought it in Saudi Arabia

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cavhctwmqp..._2697.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/544gipmvf0..._2700.JPG?dl=0

Chief Engineer · January 19, 2018, 10:23 PM

Chassepot?

shuvelrider · January 19, 2018, 10:29 PM

Model 1866 Chassepot rifle, they used that model rifle in the Franco-Prussion war. I have a bayonet for that rifle hanging on the wall.

James K · January 19, 2018, 10:31 PM

Take a look at http://www.virdea.net/french/74.html for more info. The gun started out as a Modele 1866, using a paper cartridge, then was converted to use an 11mm cartridge and renamed the Modele 1866/1874.

Jim

thirtysixford · January 20, 2018, 12:06 AM

you guys are super My wife said no one will ever know anything about the rifle.

Ha

I have quite a few more pistols, shotguns etc mostly 1920's up

What forum should I post

FrankenMauser · January 20, 2018, 01:48 AM

If you're looking for more IDs, post in The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research sub-forum.

**Mike Irwin** · January 20, 2018, 08:48 AM

There's a nice picture of the two cartridges here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...?1516451960438

The cartridge on the bottom is what your rifle was originally chambered for. It was a "needle gun" in that the firing pin was a very thin steel needle that pierced the rear of the cartridge to hit a primer that was mounted inside the cartridge. In that sense, it was very similar to the German Dryse (although the primer for the Dryse cartridge was buried much deeper into the cartridge).

Functionally, the Chassepot rifle was superior to the Dryse rifle. Unfortunately, the French tactics and leadership were far inferior to the Prussians.

The metallic cartridge on top is what your rifle was converted to -- the 11mm Gras cartridge. It served the French as its primary military cartridge until the adoption of the 8mm Lebel cartridge in 1886.

The 11mm Gras found a new lease on life during World War I as a heavy machine gun cartridge to be used in shooting down German observation balloons. It was far more effective than the smaller caliber bullets of the time because it could hold a much larger incindiary charge.

Eddie Rickenbacker talks about using the 11mm Vickers balloon gun to shoot down German balloons in his autobiography.

thirtysixford · January 20, 2018, 02:53 PM

Thanks everyone

Fascinating to see the history of such an old and obscure item is available to anyone who takes the time to look.

I'm going to keep my eye out for one of those bayonets in the link. It would make the weapon look awesome on my wall.

thirtysixford · February 7, 2018, 06:36 PM

Just a final reply, Shuvelrider got my attention when he said he had a bayonet on his wall that goes along with the rifle

I started looking and found this one. Sword is in great condition but scabbard a little ruff, but so is the rifle. Will look great on my wall.

I cant even imagine what it must have been like to have some crazy Frenchman chasing you with this in his hands.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ywejdj9f9..._1927.jpg?dl=0

thanks

January 19, 2018, 09:50 PM	#1
thirtysixford Member Join Date: January 2, 2018 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 37	French? gun? Inherited several firearms Most easy to identify this one a wall hanger. very crude repairs would not ever attempt to fire it. seems converted to cartridge 11mm my father said he bought it in Saudi Arabia https://www.dropbox.com/s/cavhctwmqp..._2697.JPG?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/544gipmvf0..._2700.JPG?dl=0

January 20, 2018, 01:48 AM	#6
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,778	If you're looking for more IDs, post in The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research sub-forum. __________________ -Unwilling Range Officer -Unwilling Match Designer -NRL22/PRS22/PRO -Something about broccoli and carrots

January 20, 2018, 08:48 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	There's a nice picture of the two cartridges here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...?1516451960438 The cartridge on the bottom is what your rifle was originally chambered for. It was a "needle gun" in that the firing pin was a very thin steel needle that pierced the rear of the cartridge to hit a primer that was mounted inside the cartridge. In that sense, it was very similar to the German Dryse (although the primer for the Dryse cartridge was buried much deeper into the cartridge). Functionally, the Chassepot rifle was superior to the Dryse rifle. Unfortunately, the French tactics and leadership were far inferior to the Prussians. The metallic cartridge on top is what your rifle was converted to -- the 11mm Gras cartridge. It served the French as its primary military cartridge until the adoption of the 8mm Lebel cartridge in 1886. The 11mm Gras found a new lease on life during World War I as a heavy machine gun cartridge to be used in shooting down German observation balloons. It was far more effective than the smaller caliber bullets of the time because it could hold a much larger incindiary charge. Eddie Rickenbacker talks about using the 11mm Vickers balloon gun to shoot down German balloons in his autobiography. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 7, 2018, 06:36 PM	#9
thirtysixford Member Join Date: January 2, 2018 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 37	got bayonet Just a final reply, Shuvelrider got my attention when he said he had a bayonet on his wall that goes along with the rifle I started looking and found this one. Sword is in great condition but scabbard a little ruff, but so is the rifle. Will look great on my wall. I cant even imagine what it must have been like to have some crazy Frenchman chasing you with this in his hands. https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ywejdj9f9..._1927.jpg?dl=0 thanks Last edited by thirtysixford; February 7, 2018 at 07:17 PM.

January 19, 2018, 10:23 PM	#2
Chief Engineer Member Join Date: February 19, 2008 Location: Maine Posts: 71	Chassepot?

January 19, 2018, 10:29 PM	#3
shuvelrider Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Location: West Coast of Michigan Posts: 136	Model 1866 Chassepot rifle, they used that model rifle in the Franco-Prussion war. I have a bayonet for that rifle hanging on the wall.

January 19, 2018, 10:31 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Take a look at http://www.virdea.net/french/74.html for more info. The gun started out as a Modele 1866, using a paper cartridge, then was converted to use an 11mm cartridge and renamed the Modele 1866/1874. Jim

January 20, 2018, 12:06 AM	#5
thirtysixford Member Join Date: January 2, 2018 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 37	you guys are super My wife said no one will ever know anything about the rifle. Ha I have quite a few more pistols, shotguns etc mostly 1920's up What forum should I post

January 20, 2018, 02:53 PM	#8
thirtysixford Member Join Date: January 2, 2018 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 37	Thanks everyone Fascinating to see the history of such an old and obscure item is available to anyone who takes the time to look. I'm going to keep my eye out for one of those bayonets in the link. It would make the weapon look awesome on my wall.