accurate load ?

rebs · April 29, 2017, 11:26 AM

I have a load for my AR 223 that shoots just under one inch at 100 yds. Should this load be accurate for 200 and 300 yds ?

ShootistPRS · April 29, 2017, 12:32 PM

Quote:

I have a load for my AR 223 that shoots just under one inch at 100 yds. Should this load be accurate for 200 and 300 yds ?

It is likely that it will be accurate within the same MOA accuracy that you are getting at 100 yards but the only way to know is to shoot it at the longer ranges.

T. O'Heir · April 29, 2017, 02:13 PM

Like ShootistPRS says, probably. Lotta variables that affect accuracy out at 200 and 300 that may not be evident at 100 and have nothing to do with the load. The wind alone can push a .22 calibre bullet off left or right.

Nick_C_S · April 29, 2017, 02:45 PM

Interesting.

I don't know much about long range/rifle shooting. I'm a handgun guy.

But it seems to me, if you're shooting just under 1" groups at 100 yards; that'd translate to just under 2" groups at 200 yards; and just under 3" groups at 300 yards. Assuming the bullet remains stable (sufficient twist, etc.)

There's probably some things I don't know here.

rebs · April 29, 2017, 08:42 PM

I am shooting a S&W Sport 16" 1 in 8 twist 5 R rifling. I will get back to the range this week and post back the results at 200 and 300 yds.

KEYBEAR · April 29, 2017, 08:56 PM

The difference between 100 yards and 200/300 yards is more than just the Rifle or Bullet but the most important factor the shooter . You may be up to shooting well at 100 yd the only way to know anything past that is do it .

Do not forget drop the 223 really goes south after 150 yards .

rebs · April 30, 2017, 07:38 AM

Thank you for all the replies

Longshot4 · April 30, 2017, 11:24 AM

When you can keep your 5-10 shot groups at 1" at 100 Yds. I believe Theoretically at 200 Yds. the group doubles to 2" since you doubled the distance. But at 300 Yds. the theoretic group would be 400 Yds. ... But that's the way I understand the way it goes. Perhaps we can get some one to help to assure correctness.

The 223 is commonly a light bullet and the BC isn't very high. Although with the correct fast twist you should be able to stabilize a heavier bullet with a higher BC to maximize the .224 diameter bullet.

Either way a 10> MPH wind can make a big difference in bullet flight. If you are using a 12 power scope and you can shoot without flinching from a bench you should be able to see the bullet flight. If you have a bright sun to show the reflection off the bullet.

The heavier the bullet the better BC the better the wind can be bucked.
That's where the ol Kentucky windage comes in.

I'm hoping for some one to comment please.

mikejonestkd · April 30, 2017, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Do not forget drop the 223 really goes south after 150 yards .

Huh? please don't let the guys that use 223 at long range know that!!

a gun that shoots well at 100 yards will also shoot well at longer ranges, as long as the bullet remains stable.

rebs · April 30, 2017, 04:16 PM

The bullets I am shooting are Sierra 77 gr match king and sierra 69 gr match king. Both these bullets shoot under 1 inch at 100 yds.

jmr40 · April 30, 2017, 06:54 PM

MOST of the time you'll get the same MOA as range increases out to 200 or 300 yards at least in calm wind. A 1" group at 100 USUALLY means 2" at 200 and about 3" at 300. If you're getting 1.5" at 100, expect 3" at 200 and around 4.5" at 300. At some point you'll not have enough scope to see the target clearly enough to actually aim at the exact same point every time and you see MOA increase. The skill of the shooter comes into play as well. In gusty winds groups will increase as well as wind blows some bullets farther from POA.

It wouldn't be unusual to see MOA improve at longer ranges, but not actual group sizes. I've had rifles that would do no better than 1" at 100 yards, but were consistently under 2" at 200. In the 1.5-1.75" range and around 2.5" or better at 300.

This is one of those things debated hotly on the internet. I don't know the exact reason, there are lots of theories. But I've observed it as have too many others to discount it as myth.

jmr40 · April 30, 2017, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Do not forget drop the 223 really goes south after 150 yards .

Quote:

The 223 is commonly a light bullet and the BC isn't very high.

The bullets the OP is shooting have BC's about the same as 165/168 gr 308 bullets. Fired from a 223 they drop LESS than a 308 firing 165/168 gr bullets. The lighter 40-50 gr bullets drop considerably less out to at least 500 yards. This isn't a factor even with lightweight bullets until extreme ranges.

And even if they did drop more that is completely irrelevant for target shooting and only a minor inconvenience for hunters. At known ranges bullet drop is easily accounted for.

KEYBEAR · April 30, 2017, 08:10 PM

jmr40

A 223 shooting a 77gr. bullet at 2900 FPS out the barrel dead on at 100 yards how much drop at 300 yards . Also what is the FPS at 300 yards .
What is an extreme ranges for a 223 .

NHSHOOTER · April 30, 2017, 08:25 PM

Keybear, You can find all that info on many different ballistic table websites, just do a google search

NHSHOOTER · April 30, 2017, 08:27 PM

as Jmr says, if your scope doesnt have enough power to hold that exact aimpoint no matter what the yardage your groups will suffer. I just mounted a 24 fixed power on a new heavy barreled 223 Ruger and it shoots 3 in the same hole at 100 yds. Part gun, part scope, and part shooter...Wish there was a 200 and 300 yd range at my club but no luck there.

KEYBEAR · April 30, 2017, 08:55 PM

NHSHOOTER the question was for jmr40 and his answer could be different then yours .

The original post stated at 100 yards around 1 inch . Then 200 and 300 yard was also ask about . It would be imposable to really give an answer not knowing more data things like scope rest bullet FPS and shooter and more .

Any center Fire rifle can be a long range shooter but just what is long range for the shooter and how much time and money he would like to spend .

Having shot 223 for a lot of years it is more then possible to shoot well at 300 yards (OP,s question) But I think you know a lot of things need to change from 100 yards to shooting 300 yards and more .

A 77 gr. bullet will drop 14.8 inches more at 200 yards and 71.8 inches more on out to 500 yards . I think you know it is very hard to do without the right equipment and good shooting skills (let alone long range)

Metal god · April 30, 2017, 10:12 PM

If the load shoots well at 100yds it will keep shooting well at greater distances . One thing to keep in mind is the bullet decelerates much faster percentage wise then the spin decelerates . So if it's stable at 100yds it should be stable throughout it's flight path until it encounters a destabilizing force .

That said generally speaking 1/2moa at 100yds will shoot about the same at 200yds . How ever every 100yds after that the groups will open up a bit . If the rifle , ammo and shooter are up to it . The difference is not incrementally large but the groups do start to open up on average . Why ? JUST CUASE

308cal , 175gr SMK @ 2650fps drops 4" 200yds , 14.5" at 300yds , 32.8" at 400yds , 59.9" at 500yds and 395" at 1k . This load stays super sonic throughout it's flight path .

223cal , 77gr SMK @ 2700fps drops 4" at 200yds , 15.1" at 300yds , 34.9" @ 400yds , 65.4" at 500yds and 495" at 1k . This load passes the transonic barrier ( destabilizing force ) around 800yds

The 223 goes south after 600yds really as far as drop goes but as you can see out to 500yds it's virtually the same as a 308 in there most commonly used long range bullet weights respectively .

rebs · May 1, 2017, 08:42 AM

Thank you guys, this has been a very informative thread and I appreciate all the replies and help.

April 29, 2017, 11:26 AM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	accurate load ? I have a load for my AR 223 that shoots just under one inch at 100 yds. Should this load be accurate for 200 and 300 yds ?

April 29, 2017, 02:45 PM	#4
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,618	Interesting. I don't know much about long range/rifle shooting. I'm a handgun guy. But it seems to me, if you're shooting just under 1" groups at 100 yards; that'd translate to just under 2" groups at 200 yards; and just under 3" groups at 300 yards. Assuming the bullet remains stable (sufficient twist, etc.) There's probably some things I don't know here. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

April 30, 2017, 06:54 PM	#11
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,973	MOST of the time you'll get the same MOA as range increases out to 200 or 300 yards at least in calm wind. A 1" group at 100 USUALLY means 2" at 200 and about 3" at 300. If you're getting 1.5" at 100, expect 3" at 200 and around 4.5" at 300. At some point you'll not have enough scope to see the target clearly enough to actually aim at the exact same point every time and you see MOA increase. The skill of the shooter comes into play as well. In gusty winds groups will increase as well as wind blows some bullets farther from POA. It wouldn't be unusual to see MOA improve at longer ranges, but not actual group sizes. I've had rifles that would do no better than 1" at 100 yards, but were consistently under 2" at 200. In the 1.5-1.75" range and around 2.5" or better at 300. This is one of those things debated hotly on the internet. I don't know the exact reason, there are lots of theories. But I've observed it as have too many others to discount it as myth. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

April 30, 2017, 10:12 PM	#17
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 7,135	If the load shoots well at 100yds it will keep shooting well at greater distances . One thing to keep in mind is the bullet decelerates much faster percentage wise then the spin decelerates . So if it's stable at 100yds it should be stable throughout it's flight path until it encounters a destabilizing force . That said generally speaking 1/2moa at 100yds will shoot about the same at 200yds . How ever every 100yds after that the groups will open up a bit . If the rifle , ammo and shooter are up to it . The difference is not incrementally large but the groups do start to open up on average . Why ? JUST CUASE 308cal , 175gr SMK @ 2650fps drops 4" 200yds , 14.5" at 300yds , 32.8" at 400yds , 59.9" at 500yds and 395" at 1k . This load stays super sonic throughout it's flight path . 223cal , 77gr SMK @ 2700fps drops 4" at 200yds , 15.1" at 300yds , 34.9" @ 400yds , 65.4" at 500yds and 495" at 1k . This load passes the transonic barrier ( destabilizing force ) around 800yds The 223 goes south after 600yds really as far as drop goes but as you can see out to 500yds it's virtually the same as a 308 in there most commonly used long range bullet weights respectively . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; April 30, 2017 at 10:42 PM.

April 29, 2017, 02:13 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Like ShootistPRS says, probably. Lotta variables that affect accuracy out at 200 and 300 that may not be evident at 100 and have nothing to do with the load. The wind alone can push a .22 calibre bullet off left or right.

April 29, 2017, 08:42 PM	#5
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I am shooting a S&W Sport 16" 1 in 8 twist 5 R rifling. I will get back to the range this week and post back the results at 200 and 300 yds.

April 29, 2017, 08:56 PM	#6
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	The difference between 100 yards and 200/300 yards is more than just the Rifle or Bullet but the most important factor the shooter . You may be up to shooting well at 100 yd the only way to know anything past that is do it . Do not forget drop the 223 really goes south after 150 yards .

April 30, 2017, 07:38 AM	#7
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thank you for all the replies

April 30, 2017, 11:24 AM	#8
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2014 Posts: 868	When you can keep your 5-10 shot groups at 1" at 100 Yds. I believe Theoretically at 200 Yds. the group doubles to 2" since you doubled the distance. But at 300 Yds. the theoretic group would be 400 Yds. ... But that's the way I understand the way it goes. Perhaps we can get some one to help to assure correctness. The 223 is commonly a light bullet and the BC isn't very high. Although with the correct fast twist you should be able to stabilize a heavier bullet with a higher BC to maximize the .224 diameter bullet. Either way a 10> MPH wind can make a big difference in bullet flight. If you are using a 12 power scope and you can shoot without flinching from a bench you should be able to see the bullet flight. If you have a bright sun to show the reflection off the bullet. The heavier the bullet the better BC the better the wind can be bucked. That's where the ol Kentucky windage comes in. I'm hoping for some one to comment please.

April 30, 2017, 04:16 PM	#10
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	The bullets I am shooting are Sierra 77 gr match king and sierra 69 gr match king. Both these bullets shoot under 1 inch at 100 yds.

April 30, 2017, 08:10 PM	#13
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	jmr40 A 223 shooting a 77gr. bullet at 2900 FPS out the barrel dead on at 100 yards how much drop at 300 yards . Also what is the FPS at 300 yards . What is an extreme ranges for a 223 .

April 30, 2017, 08:25 PM	#14
NHSHOOTER Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2012 Location: Concord NH Posts: 1,027	Keybear, You can find all that info on many different ballistic table websites, just do a google search

April 30, 2017, 08:27 PM	#15
NHSHOOTER Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2012 Location: Concord NH Posts: 1,027	as Jmr says, if your scope doesnt have enough power to hold that exact aimpoint no matter what the yardage your groups will suffer. I just mounted a 24 fixed power on a new heavy barreled 223 Ruger and it shoots 3 in the same hole at 100 yds. Part gun, part scope, and part shooter...Wish there was a 200 and 300 yd range at my club but no luck there.

April 30, 2017, 08:55 PM	#16
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	NHSHOOTER the question was for jmr40 and his answer could be different then yours . The original post stated at 100 yards around 1 inch . Then 200 and 300 yard was also ask about . It would be imposable to really give an answer not knowing more data things like scope rest bullet FPS and shooter and more . Any center Fire rifle can be a long range shooter but just what is long range for the shooter and how much time and money he would like to spend . Having shot 223 for a lot of years it is more then possible to shoot well at 300 yards (OP,s question) But I think you know a lot of things need to change from 100 yards to shooting 300 yards and more . A 77 gr. bullet will drop 14.8 inches more at 200 yards and 71.8 inches more on out to 500 yards . I think you know it is very hard to do without the right equipment and good shooting skills (let alone long range)

May 1, 2017, 08:42 AM	#18
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thank you guys, this has been a very informative thread and I appreciate all the replies and help.