XL650 Primers not always feeding

Jeryray · January 20, 2017, 09:04 PM

Before dinner, made 100 rounds no problem.

After dinner made 50 rounds then realized 10 had no primers and powder was all over.

With all the alarms, this needs to be addressed.

Anyone?
Please, going crazy....

And yes the primer tube is full and I have a 45 case on top.

ed308 · January 20, 2017, 10:25 PM

Look in the manual that came with the press. The Dillon trouble shooting section will usually point you to the fix.

With time on the press, you'll know when a primer didn't seat by feel on the up stroke.

jojo4711 · January 21, 2017, 12:21 AM

Slow down and feel the primer seating

BigJimP · January 21, 2017, 01:19 AM

You don't need another alarm on the press ( and i'm not sure it would be possible -- without significant changes in press.../ i Reload at least 20,000 handgun rds a year on a 650 and I have never seen an issue like this on my press....and none of my buddies using 650's are having this issue....??

But the solution lies in the details...maybe you broke something in the primer feed mechanism....when did you last take it off the press and clean it out ( take it apart )....check all springs - in lever on top & one Under detent ball inside....make sure bolts are tight on top, make sure the priming seater is tight....is primer feed tube securely seated in mecanism with the knurled nut on top of tube holding it down....is shell plate tight.....make sure bolt holding the primer feed plate is tight.....all the little stuff...

But you should be able to easily feel when no primer is seated....

Remove it, take it apart, inspect, clean ....reinstall and check it again before continuing...

What caliber ?
What brand and kind of primers ?
How many rounds have you loaded on this press ?
( if it's. 45acp...are you sure cases are all using large pistol primers .... there are some cases out there using small pistol primers....)....

What did you mean, you have a .45 case on top....?? ...on top of what ?

Jeryray · January 21, 2017, 01:47 AM

OK, this press is 6 weeks old. 1600 rounds of 9mm. I have the .38 and the .45 head and have not set those up yet.

This is the 3rd or 4th time I had no primer seated. I have been getting some primers not seated all the way, though I was being slow and methodical..

I took the primer assembly apart, cleaned it put fresh primers in and will try another couple of 9mm tomorrow.

I did check the alignment, looks ok.

Perhaps I need more weight than a .45 shell on the primer feed tube?

BigJimP · January 21, 2017, 02:43 AM

You don't put a case on top of the primer feed tube to hold it down....there is a knurled nut, that holds the primer feed tube in place....

Then you put the alarm on the rod ...on top of the knurled nut...

Then you put the plastic rod thru the opening in top ....

Jeryray · January 21, 2017, 09:24 AM

The .45 case is on the rod that keeps pressure on the loaded primers.
Alarm is in place and working.

BigJimP · January 21, 2017, 10:09 AM

Ok ---- where did you see it recommended to put a case on top of the plastic rod ? ...

( you may be putting too much pressure on primers in tube ... causing them to jam vs flow smoothly....)..../ probably 400,000 rds thru my 650 and I have never put weight on top of that plastic rod...

jmorris · January 21, 2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

This is the 3rd or 4th time I had no primer seated. I have been getting some primers not seated all the way, though I was being slow and methodical..

I took the primer assembly apart, cleaned it put fresh primers in and will try another couple of 9mm tomorrow.

I don't think you understand what is going on exactly. Primers not seated all the way is not caused by a dirty primer assembly. It is because you did not push the handle towards the rear of the press.

The primer anvil has the ability to travel up much further than is necessary to properly seat a primer.

Rock Hammer · January 21, 2017, 01:50 PM

Jeryray......I too had this very problem it was the primer indexing arm and spring it would not retract and catch in the next hole there for not rotating the next primer my spring had somehow gotten scrunched. I took my primer assembly apart cleaned and lubed it , and i stretched out the spring a little and now its working great .....it is number 6 and 11 on page 53 of your manual.....my problem was random that is why it was hard to find .......I have a spare quick change primer system and while holding it and working it manually with my thumb I noticed how smoothly and cleanly it popped back into the next hole , unlike the one on my machine........Hope in someway this helps you and others......

BigJimP · January 21, 2017, 03:10 PM

I was loading a few boxes of 9mm myself this am....and I was wondering if you have the shell plate down as tight as it should go ...

Press on the plate - installed in the press..if it gives much at all...then it's probably too loose. Back out the set screw on the shaft...hold the shell plate down with your finger and seat the bolt tighter into the center shaft...( and back it out just a hair ) so it indexes properly - and remember to tighten the set screw again.

I saw your other post on finished rounds getting hung up on the spring as they exit to the chute..( that tells me you might not have the shell plate down tight enough too ).....and I would make sure you set the press up as it was meant to be stock ( no thrust bearings, etc ) that are not proided by Dillon -- until you get this worked out.

I would basically just start over with the shell plate installed properly, take the primer system off the press, clean it, make sure the feed tube is seated all the way down, make sure the knurled nut is on tight...and reinstall it ( and make sure the primer seating mechanism is tight as well...)..

The problem you're having is not typically an issue on the 650's in my experience...so I still think its the little things ( but I would also take that spent .45 acp case off of the plastic rod ).

If you are not using Winchester or CCI primers....( you may have a primer issue as well ) ....some of the oddball brands can be an issue / change whatever you are using for CCI ..( or my 2nd choice would be Winchester ).

Jeryray · January 21, 2017, 05:49 PM

Wow, thanks for all the posts. I received the primer alignment tools today. Cleaned the plate and primer. Made sure the alignment was correct.

Made 200 rounds with only one primer that did not seat, the brass was some weird brand.

I do push forward pretty hard though. Also replaced the eject spring.
I'll be making another 500 or so tomorrow.

The plate doe not have any play, just enough to turn smooth.

I am seriously thinking of getting an extra shell plate and drilling small pilot holes so I can see if there is a primer waiting for the next shell. There is a sweet spot where I think it can be done. I look at every case as it feeds and this would be in view as well.

Should work. Small home like 1/8 on every station of course.

BigJimP · January 21, 2017, 06:02 PM

Good luck then, I hope that is the end of the issues ( but just for comparison for you .... i loaded 1,000 rds of 9mm today ...and no primers failed to advance or seat properly )...i haven't had a case go thru press with no primer in many years....about the only issue i have is an inverted primer about 1 in 4,000....but i haven't had one in awhile..../ and i load and shoot 8 - 10 boxes a week of 9mm...

So keep workkng to fine tune that press...

jmorris · January 21, 2017, 08:26 PM

Quote:

I am seriously thinking of getting an extra shell plate and drilling small pilot holes so I can see if there is a primer waiting for the next shell.

Can you not feel the difference when there is a primer being seated and nothing happening?

It should be pretty obvious. Not only should you be able to feel the primer being seated the handle will move further towards the rear of the press with no primer being seated.

jmorris · January 21, 2017, 09:00 PM

Watch this video and you can see what I am talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgW6yvWpXSs

If you have to remove the tool head and just prime 100 cases paying attention only to priming to get used to the feeling, I think that would be a good use of your time.

Jeryray · January 22, 2017, 03:54 PM

Jmorris, thanks for the video. I have about 3/8 inch difference between primer and no primer.

I don not see what stops the cam.

There is a bar that has two screws that has the spring and is the primer pusher.
This does not seem to have any adjustment.

I am thinking of setting up a micro switch that will allow me to know if the stroke goes to far telling there is no primer.

Do you have more than a 3/8 difference?

TIA

jmorris · January 22, 2017, 05:37 PM

I measure closer to 5/8" difference with/without primer to the centerline of the ball.

The bigger issue for me would be that you can't feel the difference between seating a primer and when one is not being seated.

Jeryray · January 22, 2017, 06:32 PM

Just made the measurement. 1/4 inch difference primer/no primer.

Sounds off?

Jeryray · January 23, 2017, 01:30 AM

Also looked at the spring for the primer punch, seems the coils is not compressed that far up. I think something or some adjustment needs to be made for the forward stroke?

jmorris · January 23, 2017, 09:18 AM

Remove the case from station 2, push the handle forward and take a photo of the relation of the primer punch to the portion of the shell plate the case rests on.

Right now I would be most concerned with figuring out how to feel a primer being seated.

Jeryray · January 23, 2017, 11:05 AM

OK, I took 2 photos
The primer punch as you requested
And the compression of the primer seating punch.

Hope I uploaded these properly

jmorris · January 23, 2017, 04:15 PM

That is more than sufficient for a primer seated below flush.

Jeryray · January 23, 2017, 04:22 PM

Just Called Dillon, they had me remove the primer punch. The handle was able to go another 1/2 inch.

They also say the spring should have been compressed more. Put the punch in a vise and it bottoms out way before the spring compresses much. We tried a thin metal rule between the punch and the frame piece. did not help. Seems this particular punch is not up to specs. They will check one today and send me a new one.

ohiobuck74 · January 24, 2017, 01:21 PM

I had the same problem with my 650. Ended up being a slight bur on the primer plate, and a weak spring changed them out good as new! At least 60,000 rounds ran through mine. Works flawlessly!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Jeryray · January 25, 2017, 01:46 AM

Where was the weak spring?
Bur on the plate that rotates, or the punch?

January 20, 2017, 09:04 PM	#1
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	XL650 Primers not always feeding Before dinner, made 100 rounds no problem. After dinner made 50 rounds then realized 10 had no primers and powder was all over. With all the alarms, this needs to be addressed. Anyone? Please, going crazy.... And yes the primer tube is full and I have a 45 case on top.

January 21, 2017, 01:19 AM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You don't need another alarm on the press ( and i'm not sure it would be possible -- without significant changes in press.../ i Reload at least 20,000 handgun rds a year on a 650 and I have never seen an issue like this on my press....and none of my buddies using 650's are having this issue....?? But the solution lies in the details...maybe you broke something in the primer feed mechanism....when did you last take it off the press and clean it out ( take it apart )....check all springs - in lever on top & one Under detent ball inside....make sure bolts are tight on top, make sure the priming seater is tight....is primer feed tube securely seated in mecanism with the knurled nut on top of tube holding it down....is shell plate tight.....make sure bolt holding the primer feed plate is tight.....all the little stuff... But you should be able to easily feel when no primer is seated.... Remove it, take it apart, inspect, clean ....reinstall and check it again before continuing... What caliber ? What brand and kind of primers ? How many rounds have you loaded on this press ? ( if it's. 45acp...are you sure cases are all using large pistol primers .... there are some cases out there using small pistol primers....).... What did you mean, you have a .45 case on top....?? ...on top of what ? Last edited by BigJimP; January 21, 2017 at 01:30 AM.

January 21, 2017, 01:50 PM	#10
Rock Hammer Member Join Date: October 15, 2016 Posts: 39	Jeryray......I too had this very problem it was the primer indexing arm and spring it would not retract and catch in the next hole there for not rotating the next primer my spring had somehow gotten scrunched. I took my primer assembly apart cleaned and lubed it , and i stretched out the spring a little and now its working great .....it is number 6 and 11 on page 53 of your manual.....my problem was random that is why it was hard to find .......I have a spare quick change primer system and while holding it and working it manually with my thumb I noticed how smoothly and cleanly it popped back into the next hole , unlike the one on my machine........Hope in someway this helps you and others...... Last edited by Rock Hammer; January 21, 2017 at 02:32 PM.

January 21, 2017, 09:00 PM	#15
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	Watch this video and you can see what I am talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgW6yvWpXSs If you have to remove the tool head and just prime 100 cases paying attention only to priming to get used to the feeling, I think that would be a good use of your time. Last edited by jmorris; January 21, 2017 at 09:14 PM.

January 20, 2017, 10:25 PM	#2
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Look in the manual that came with the press. The Dillon trouble shooting section will usually point you to the fix. With time on the press, you'll know when a primer didn't seat by feel on the up stroke.

January 21, 2017, 12:21 AM	#3
jojo4711 Member Join Date: March 16, 2015 Posts: 85	Slow down and feel the primer seating

January 21, 2017, 01:47 AM	#5
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	OK, this press is 6 weeks old. 1600 rounds of 9mm. I have the .38 and the .45 head and have not set those up yet. This is the 3rd or 4th time I had no primer seated. I have been getting some primers not seated all the way, though I was being slow and methodical.. I took the primer assembly apart, cleaned it put fresh primers in and will try another couple of 9mm tomorrow. I did check the alignment, looks ok. Perhaps I need more weight than a .45 shell on the primer feed tube?

January 21, 2017, 02:43 AM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You don't put a case on top of the primer feed tube to hold it down....there is a knurled nut, that holds the primer feed tube in place.... Then you put the alarm on the rod ...on top of the knurled nut... Then you put the plastic rod thru the opening in top ....

January 21, 2017, 09:24 AM	#7
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	The .45 case is on the rod that keeps pressure on the loaded primers. Alarm is in place and working.

January 21, 2017, 10:09 AM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Ok ---- where did you see it recommended to put a case on top of the plastic rod ? ... ( you may be putting too much pressure on primers in tube ... causing them to jam vs flow smoothly....)..../ probably 400,000 rds thru my 650 and I have never put weight on top of that plastic rod...

January 21, 2017, 03:10 PM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I was loading a few boxes of 9mm myself this am....and I was wondering if you have the shell plate down as tight as it should go ... Press on the plate - installed in the press..if it gives much at all...then it's probably too loose. Back out the set screw on the shaft...hold the shell plate down with your finger and seat the bolt tighter into the center shaft...( and back it out just a hair ) so it indexes properly - and remember to tighten the set screw again. I saw your other post on finished rounds getting hung up on the spring as they exit to the chute..( that tells me you might not have the shell plate down tight enough too ).....and I would make sure you set the press up as it was meant to be stock ( no thrust bearings, etc ) that are not proided by Dillon -- until you get this worked out. I would basically just start over with the shell plate installed properly, take the primer system off the press, clean it, make sure the feed tube is seated all the way down, make sure the knurled nut is on tight...and reinstall it ( and make sure the primer seating mechanism is tight as well...).. The problem you're having is not typically an issue on the 650's in my experience...so I still think its the little things ( but I would also take that spent .45 acp case off of the plastic rod ). If you are not using Winchester or CCI primers....( you may have a primer issue as well ) ....some of the oddball brands can be an issue / change whatever you are using for CCI ..( or my 2nd choice would be Winchester ).

January 21, 2017, 05:49 PM	#12
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Wow, thanks for all the posts. I received the primer alignment tools today. Cleaned the plate and primer. Made sure the alignment was correct. Made 200 rounds with only one primer that did not seat, the brass was some weird brand. I do push forward pretty hard though. Also replaced the eject spring. I'll be making another 500 or so tomorrow. The plate doe not have any play, just enough to turn smooth. I am seriously thinking of getting an extra shell plate and drilling small pilot holes so I can see if there is a primer waiting for the next shell. There is a sweet spot where I think it can be done. I look at every case as it feeds and this would be in view as well. Should work. Small home like 1/8 on every station of course.

January 21, 2017, 06:02 PM	#13
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Good luck then, I hope that is the end of the issues ( but just for comparison for you .... i loaded 1,000 rds of 9mm today ...and no primers failed to advance or seat properly )...i haven't had a case go thru press with no primer in many years....about the only issue i have is an inverted primer about 1 in 4,000....but i haven't had one in awhile..../ and i load and shoot 8 - 10 boxes a week of 9mm... So keep workkng to fine tune that press...

January 22, 2017, 03:54 PM	#16
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Jmorris, thanks for the video. I have about 3/8 inch difference between primer and no primer. I don not see what stops the cam. There is a bar that has two screws that has the spring and is the primer pusher. This does not seem to have any adjustment. I am thinking of setting up a micro switch that will allow me to know if the stroke goes to far telling there is no primer. Do you have more than a 3/8 difference? TIA

January 22, 2017, 05:37 PM	#17
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	I measure closer to 5/8" difference with/without primer to the centerline of the ball. The bigger issue for me would be that you can't feel the difference between seating a primer and when one is not being seated.

January 22, 2017, 06:32 PM	#18
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Just made the measurement. 1/4 inch difference primer/no primer. Sounds off?

January 23, 2017, 01:30 AM	#19
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Also looked at the spring for the primer punch, seems the coils is not compressed that far up. I think something or some adjustment needs to be made for the forward stroke?

January 23, 2017, 09:18 AM	#20
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	Remove the case from station 2, push the handle forward and take a photo of the relation of the primer punch to the portion of the shell plate the case rests on. Right now I would be most concerned with figuring out how to feel a primer being seated.

January 23, 2017, 04:15 PM	#22
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	That is more than sufficient for a primer seated below flush.

January 23, 2017, 04:22 PM	#23
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Just Called Dillon, they had me remove the primer punch. The handle was able to go another 1/2 inch. They also say the spring should have been compressed more. Put the punch in a vise and it bottoms out way before the spring compresses much. We tried a thin metal rule between the punch and the frame piece. did not help. Seems this particular punch is not up to specs. They will check one today and send me a new one.

January 24, 2017, 01:21 PM	#24
ohiobuck74 Junior Member Join Date: April 7, 2015 Posts: 5	I had the same problem with my 650. Ended up being a slight bur on the primer plate, and a weak spring changed them out good as new! At least 60,000 rounds ran through mine. Works flawlessly! Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

January 25, 2017, 01:46 AM	#25
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Where was the weak spring? Bur on the plate that rotates, or the punch?