38 Spl rifle load...

bjm42 · November 23, 2016, 04:39 AM

Need load data for 38 Spl, to be fired in Winchester 94, chambered for 357 Magnum. All my manuals show data for pistol, but I think the rifle-length barrel would make a difference. Appreciate advice.
Happy Thanksgiving, All.

Snyper · November 23, 2016, 04:48 AM

The loads can be identical, and the rifle will just give much higher velocities.
You can get a general idea of the increase here:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

CTSixshot · November 23, 2016, 09:13 AM

This is probably the exact page that you seek...
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html
Most load manuals (at least the older ones that I have) only give handgun and rifle data for .357 Magnum, not for .38 Special.
In .357 Magnum, the powder charges aren't different, but the listed velocities in rifle are faster (~400 fps faster with the 158gr JHP, for example. 4" versus 18.5" barrels).

reddog81 · November 23, 2016, 12:28 PM

The only concern I can think of is with real light loads and jacketed bullets. With a light enough load you could stick a bullet in the barrel. I imagine most published starting loads will be powerful enough that this is not a concern, but other than that you should be fine using any published data.

What kind of difference are you worried about?

buck460XVR · November 23, 2016, 12:52 PM

Quote:

The only concern I can think of is with real light loads and jacketed bullets. With a light enough load you could stick a bullet in the barrel. I imagine most published starting loads will be powerful enough that this is not a concern, but other than that you should be fine using any published data

This is a legitimate concern. With my handgun caliber carbines, I try to stick with published loads that produce at least 800 fps in a handgun using jacketed bullets and have yet to experience a stuck bullet.

T. O'Heir · November 23, 2016, 02:53 PM

There's usually an OAL issue coming out of the mag tube. No reason you cannot use .38 loads in .357 cases though. Velocities will, of course, be higher.
Kind of odd that Ballistics By The Inch didn't use more typical bullet weights. Still a 100% reliable source of info. Being scientific and all.

Snyper · November 23, 2016, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Kind of odd that Ballistics By The Inch didn't use more typical bullet weights.

How is it not "typical" when much of their data is using factory loads?
It's only there for comparative purposes anyway.

Average Joe · November 23, 2016, 10:58 PM

I use the same load in my .38 spl rifle that I use in my revolver, that way I don't have to worry about what round goes where.

briandg · November 25, 2016, 03:46 PM

I'd say that the key to it would be to use the heaviest load of slow powder possible. Heavy bullets,

This should give you an intense, high pressure, longer burn, all three combined, that out to give you a combination of efficiency and velocity.

Honestly, I have used standard loads 158 grain lead with accurate row in my rifle for a long time with no problems, and you could too, but best efficiency would be to build it like that, I believe.

**Unclenick** · November 25, 2016, 05:01 PM

As you might imagine, if a .22 Rimfire in a rifle barrel doesn't stick a bullet with its huge expansion ratio, how much less the chance is of sticking one in a .38 Special/357 rifle with its smaller expansion ratio using any normal data load? With soft lead bullets you can go even slower, as is demonstrated by people performing firelapping at airgun velocities.

If you shoot .38 Special lead bullets in the gun, note that leading tends to build up just forward of the case mouth. If it gets thick enough, you can have trouble chambering .357 cartridges. It can raise pressure in one that just squeezes in, so you want to watch to be sure you get the area just before the throat cleaned of lead.

SHR970 · November 25, 2016, 09:58 PM

Using starting loads for plated and jacketed bullets is asking for trouble.

The addage that longer barrel = more velocity at low pressure level loads is not grounded in reality especially with stating loads of fast burning powders at standard pressures.

If you want to go with cat sneeze rounds, use lead. If you squib at least they are easier to drive out.

Low velocity loads out of a carbine also tend to give greater S.D. based on my data and thus greater spread.

November 23, 2016, 04:39 AM	#1
bjm42 Member Join Date: April 23, 2011 Location: Placer Co, CA Posts: 47	38 Spl rifle load... Need load data for 38 Spl, to be fired in Winchester 94, chambered for 357 Magnum. All my manuals show data for pistol, but I think the rifle-length barrel would make a difference. Appreciate advice. Happy Thanksgiving, All.

November 25, 2016, 05:01 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,742	As you might imagine, if a .22 Rimfire in a rifle barrel doesn't stick a bullet with its huge expansion ratio, how much less the chance is of sticking one in a .38 Special/357 rifle with its smaller expansion ratio using any normal data load? With soft lead bullets you can go even slower, as is demonstrated by people performing firelapping at airgun velocities. If you shoot .38 Special lead bullets in the gun, note that leading tends to build up just forward of the case mouth. If it gets thick enough, you can have trouble chambering .357 cartridges. It can raise pressure in one that just squeezes in, so you want to watch to be sure you get the area just before the throat cleaned of lead. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 23, 2016, 04:48 AM	#2
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	The loads can be identical, and the rifle will just give much higher velocities. You can get a general idea of the increase here: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

November 23, 2016, 09:13 AM	#3
CTSixshot Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Location: SE CT Posts: 27	This is probably the exact page that you seek... http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html Most load manuals (at least the older ones that I have) only give handgun and rifle data for .357 Magnum, not for .38 Special. In .357 Magnum, the powder charges aren't different, but the listed velocities in rifle are faster (~400 fps faster with the 158gr JHP, for example. 4" versus 18.5" barrels).

November 23, 2016, 12:28 PM	#4
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,659	The only concern I can think of is with real light loads and jacketed bullets. With a light enough load you could stick a bullet in the barrel. I imagine most published starting loads will be powerful enough that this is not a concern, but other than that you should be fine using any published data. What kind of difference are you worried about?

November 23, 2016, 02:53 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	There's usually an OAL issue coming out of the mag tube. No reason you cannot use .38 loads in .357 cases though. Velocities will, of course, be higher. Kind of odd that Ballistics By The Inch didn't use more typical bullet weights. Still a 100% reliable source of info. Being scientific and all.

November 23, 2016, 10:58 PM	#8
Average Joe Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,332	I use the same load in my .38 spl rifle that I use in my revolver, that way I don't have to worry about what round goes where.

November 25, 2016, 03:46 PM	#9
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I'd say that the key to it would be to use the heaviest load of slow powder possible. Heavy bullets, This should give you an intense, high pressure, longer burn, all three combined, that out to give you a combination of efficiency and velocity. Honestly, I have used standard loads 158 grain lead with accurate row in my rifle for a long time with no problems, and you could too, but best efficiency would be to build it like that, I believe.

November 25, 2016, 09:58 PM	#11
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	Using starting loads for plated and jacketed bullets is asking for trouble. The addage that longer barrel = more velocity at low pressure level loads is not grounded in reality especially with stating loads of fast burning powders at standard pressures. If you want to go with cat sneeze rounds, use lead. If you squib at least they are easier to drive out. Low velocity loads out of a carbine also tend to give greater S.D. based on my data and thus greater spread.