Colt's BP revolver questions

Quincy · June 29, 2016, 10:54 PM

Does anyone know who made the revolvers that Colt branded?

Also, how does the quality of those stack up to current production Uberti's, in particular the 1851's?

denster · June 29, 2016, 11:26 PM

Colt produced the ones prior to the signature series in house. The signature series were assembled by Lou Imperato's firm under licence by Colt and final finish ie: blue and case colors done in house.
That is the best of my recollection. As to quality vs Uberti both generations of Colt's are finished much better externally beyond that I can't say.

Hawg · June 30, 2016, 02:51 AM

Colt built the second gens from parts supplied by Uberti. Colt sold them, warranted them and will letter them. Colt sold the license for the third gens to a company owned by Lou Imperato called Colt's Black Powder Arms Co. Colt had nothing to do with the building, fitting or finish on the third gens. Colt didn't make them or sell them. They didn't warranty them and they won't work on them or letter them.

denster · June 30, 2016, 08:30 AM

Hawg

You are probably correct regarding the finishing of the signature series I'll have to check my reference material. Probably also correct on Colt using Uberti parts I know Imperato did and even employed Italian labor.
I wonder if anyone has ever checked the second gens and the signature series for short arbor syndrome. I've not seen it mentioned anytime this has come up.
What is your opinion on overall quality vs Uberti?

Hawg · June 30, 2016, 11:40 AM

They have short arbors. My opinion is both the second and third gens are better than the older Uberti's as far as machining goes. I think the third gens are finished the best but I don't think they're worth the price most go for. FYI Uberti contracted with ASM to supply some of the barrels for the second gens. When Colt stopped production ASM got stuck with a batch of barrels with the Colt address on them. ASM used the barrels on their own guns and Colt sued them. That's why you see some ASM's with the Colt barrel address. I think they also used a different font than Uberti.

Bishop Creek · June 30, 2016, 06:54 PM

Hawg and Denster are correct. The C Series 2nd Gen Colt's were made under the Colt dome from rough castings from Uberti. The later F Series 2nd Gens were made at the old Iver Johnson factory in NJ using Uberti parts and shipped to Colt for final inspection. Colt will letter both.

Lou Imperato was involved with Colt on the F Series guns and when Colt decided to quit making them in, I think 1982, Imperato was stuck with a lot of parts and tooling for the guns, so he talked Colt into letting him make the Signature Series revolvers by licensing from Colt through his Colt's Blackpowder Arms Co starting in 1994. According to the Colt historian, Colt initially lettered some of the Signature Series guns, but as they did not have a list of the serial numbers and date of manufacture they quit lettering them.

Before his death, Imperato stated that the Signature Series guns used rough cast barrels and cylinders from Uberti but made the frames and small parts including the screws at his Colt Blackpowder factory in the U.S.A. I have both C and F Series 2nd Gens and Signature Series revolvers and the Signature Series guns seem to be a little bit better made, although some exhibt over polishing. All of the 2nd Gens and Signature Series guns have the short arbor problem.

Fingers McGee, a poster here, is the real expert on these guns and may be along soon to add more.

45 Dragoon · June 30, 2016, 09:13 PM

As stated, the short arbor is alive and well with all the "gens" ( except the first of course). I just got done with a 2nd gen 2nd Dragoon. In my opinion though, the Uberti's are closest to correct size /shape (I mean heck, they supplied parts for 2nd and 3rd gens!!) and the action parts are excellent!! The parts in Piettas and the "gens" all look the same, from the 70's (of course but why new Piettas?). I will say also that the worst revolvers I've worked on have been Colts 2nd gens. Some have the arbor hole breaking through to the RAM slot in the barrel lug and hammer alignment problems, I just wonder sometimes if they were thought more as a collectable than a shooter!
That said, the 2nd gen 2nd Dragoon I mentioned is basically perfect (now) and was one of the better "starting point Colts".
I don't want to ruffle any feathers here but, it is what it is and they can ALL be made to work perfect! I realize that 40 yrs is plenty of time to "get things right" and for the most part, they have (they being Uberti and Pietta). So, it may be not quite fair to compare today's "best" with yesterday's "best" (presumably Colts) and as I said, they can all be set up to be "right" . . . . it just takes a little more effort on some!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

June 29, 2016, 10:54 PM	#1
Quincy Member Join Date: January 13, 2009 Posts: 70	Colt's BP revolver questions Does anyone know who made the revolvers that Colt branded? Also, how does the quality of those stack up to current production Uberti's, in particular the 1851's?

June 30, 2016, 09:13 PM	#7
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 657	As stated, the short arbor is alive and well with all the "gens" ( except the first of course). I just got done with a 2nd gen 2nd Dragoon. In my opinion though, the Uberti's are closest to correct size /shape (I mean heck, they supplied parts for 2nd and 3rd gens!!) and the action parts are excellent!! The parts in Piettas and the "gens" all look the same, from the 70's (of course but why new Piettas?). I will say also that the worst revolvers I've worked on have been Colts 2nd gens. Some have the arbor hole breaking through to the RAM slot in the barrel lug and hammer alignment problems, I just wonder sometimes if they were thought more as a collectable than a shooter! That said, the 2nd gen 2nd Dragoon I mentioned is basically perfect (now) and was one of the better "starting point Colts". I don't want to ruffle any feathers here but, it is what it is and they can ALL be made to work perfect! I realize that 40 yrs is plenty of time to "get things right" and for the most part, they have (they being Uberti and Pietta). So, it may be not quite fair to compare today's "best" with yesterday's "best" (presumably Colts) and as I said, they can all be set up to be "right" . . . . it just takes a little more effort on some!!! Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks Last edited by 45 Dragoon; June 30, 2016 at 09:27 PM.

June 29, 2016, 11:26 PM	#2
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Colt produced the ones prior to the signature series in house. The signature series were assembled by Lou Imperato's firm under licence by Colt and final finish ie: blue and case colors done in house. That is the best of my recollection. As to quality vs Uberti both generations of Colt's are finished much better externally beyond that I can't say.

June 30, 2016, 02:51 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	Colt built the second gens from parts supplied by Uberti. Colt sold them, warranted them and will letter them. Colt sold the license for the third gens to a company owned by Lou Imperato called Colt's Black Powder Arms Co. Colt had nothing to do with the building, fitting or finish on the third gens. Colt didn't make them or sell them. They didn't warranty them and they won't work on them or letter them.

June 30, 2016, 08:30 AM	#4
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Hawg You are probably correct regarding the finishing of the signature series I'll have to check my reference material. Probably also correct on Colt using Uberti parts I know Imperato did and even employed Italian labor. I wonder if anyone has ever checked the second gens and the signature series for short arbor syndrome. I've not seen it mentioned anytime this has come up. What is your opinion on overall quality vs Uberti?

June 30, 2016, 11:40 AM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	They have short arbors. My opinion is both the second and third gens are better than the older Uberti's as far as machining goes. I think the third gens are finished the best but I don't think they're worth the price most go for. FYI Uberti contracted with ASM to supply some of the barrels for the second gens. When Colt stopped production ASM got stuck with a batch of barrels with the Colt address on them. ASM used the barrels on their own guns and Colt sued them. That's why you see some ASM's with the Colt barrel address. I think they also used a different font than Uberti.

June 30, 2016, 06:54 PM	#6
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 568	Hawg and Denster are correct. The C Series 2nd Gen Colt's were made under the Colt dome from rough castings from Uberti. The later F Series 2nd Gens were made at the old Iver Johnson factory in NJ using Uberti parts and shipped to Colt for final inspection. Colt will letter both. Lou Imperato was involved with Colt on the F Series guns and when Colt decided to quit making them in, I think 1982, Imperato was stuck with a lot of parts and tooling for the guns, so he talked Colt into letting him make the Signature Series revolvers by licensing from Colt through his Colt's Blackpowder Arms Co starting in 1994. According to the Colt historian, Colt initially lettered some of the Signature Series guns, but as they did not have a list of the serial numbers and date of manufacture they quit lettering them. Before his death, Imperato stated that the Signature Series guns used rough cast barrels and cylinders from Uberti but made the frames and small parts including the screws at his Colt Blackpowder factory in the U.S.A. I have both C and F Series 2nd Gens and Signature Series revolvers and the Signature Series guns seem to be a little bit better made, although some exhibt over polishing. All of the 2nd Gens and Signature Series guns have the short arbor problem. Fingers McGee, a poster here, is the real expert on these guns and may be along soon to add more.