1858 Remington 44 ?s

preboomer · February 28, 2016, 04:23 PM

Just got one of these, first black powder firearm. From what I've read there's some different opinions on what to shoot in it. 30 grains of powder or pyrodex equivalent seems to be commonly accepted. However; some say .451 ball some say .454, some say size 10 percussion caps some say 11. Will they all work ok or is there enough difference to make a difference?

swathdiver · February 28, 2016, 05:21 PM

Who made it and how old is it?

A current production (last 10 or so years) Pietta shoots best with .454 round ball and Remington #10 Percussion caps.

maillemaker · February 28, 2016, 05:29 PM

It depends on the gun.

I find CCI #10s work well with both my Uberti and Pietta 1858s. Different manufacturers are different sizes even within the same # class. You'll have to try them to find out.

Generally they will like .454 balls. The way you tell is when you seat the ball in the chamber it must shave a small ring of lead around the entire perimeter of the ball. This is how you know you have a good tight fitting ball. Loose balls will result in chain fires where multiple chambers go off simultaneously.

30 grains is the max load. You will probably find maximum accuracy at around 18 grains 3F Goex with round ball.

Steve

preboomer · February 28, 2016, 06:20 PM

Thanks for the info and load data. I should have said just ordered it. Cabela's for 249.95 with an extra Cylinder. It's supposed to be here next week. Are there any markings on them that would indicate a date of mfg. I'd think it was made in the last ten years unless they've been having trouble moving them.

I've got a lot to learn about this. I'd never shot a black powder revolver until a couple of days ago. Someone at the range had one of these 1858 Pieta 44 Remingtons. I shot it at 7 and 25 yards and it seemed as accurate as my cartridge handguns.

Model12Win · February 28, 2016, 06:34 PM

Quote:

30 grains is the max load.

No, it's not.

In a '58, it's closer to 40 grains with a round ball.

Smoke & Recoil · February 28, 2016, 06:40 PM

Any way...I shoot my 1858 with #11 caps (pinched) and 28 grains behind
a .452 ball, all go's well with mine.

Bishop Creek · February 28, 2016, 07:03 PM

When you receive your new Remington, look for two letters inside of a box like "CN" on your frame or barrel. That is the date code. CN is 2015 for instance.

Then click on this link and scroll to the bottom of the page, it shows Italian date codes from 1940 through to the future to 2030.

http://shotguns.se/html/italy.html

Hawg · February 28, 2016, 07:10 PM

I find that Remington and CCI #10 caps to work equally well but I prefer CCI. I get too many Remington caps that lose the priming compound. My normal charge is 30 grains but I have used 40 grains. By all means use .454 balls. .451's may shave a ring and still move under recoil.

2damnold4this · February 28, 2016, 07:42 PM

I shot my Pietta 1858 today and had a great time. I used .454 diameter balls and 30 grains of Goex 3f. I look forward to tinkering with the load and maybe turkey hunting with it but it was hitting pretty darn good.

spacecoast · February 28, 2016, 07:49 PM

.454 round balls work well in my original '58 Remington (1864) as well as my Pietta repro.

preboomer · February 28, 2016, 08:39 PM

Is anyone using or tried Hodgdon Pyrodex 30 gr Pellets for 44 & 45 black powder revolvers? They're getting good reviews for being cleaner and safer than black powder as well as easier/faster to load. They look to be considerably more expensive than black powder or standard pyrodex and I don't recall seeing anything about their accuracy.

BlackPowderBen · February 28, 2016, 09:30 PM

The pellets are really expensive, I've never used them. #10 caps and .454 balls is what you'll need. I use .451s for my 1858 remington because that's the mold I have for it. Go for the .454s. You can also pinch #11 caps to fit the nipples snug if thats all you can find. As for the load, the owners manual says 28 grains pyrodex p (FFFG) and 35 grains Goex FFFG powder as a max.
Have fun!

Hawg · February 28, 2016, 09:56 PM

Quote:

the owners manual says 28 grains pyrodex p (FFFG) and 35 grains Goex FFFG powder as a max.

Every Pietta I've had has had the same manual. It says 12-15 grains of FFFG. There is no mention of Pyrodex or Goex. Pyrodex is a straight across volume to volume swap with real bp. The Uberti manual says 22-30 with a .454/.457 ball and 19-25 with a conical. Again no mention of Pyrodex or Goex.

2damnold4this · February 28, 2016, 10:10 PM

My Pietta manual gives a recommended load of 12-15 grains of FFFg and a max load of 35 grains of FFFG black powder and 28 grains of Pyrodex. I'm assuming that they are talking about weights of Pyrodex instead of volume.

Hawg · February 28, 2016, 10:24 PM

That's weird. I just looked at three manuals and they all said 12-15. I guess it could be by weight but I don't know what the weight difference is.

deerslayer303 · February 29, 2016, 10:03 AM

I use .454 home cast roundball, Remington #10 caps (sportsmans warehouse keeps them in stock) and loose FFFG Real black powder. With a lubed felt wad between the powder amd ball. Look up dualist1954 on you tube. He does a great job explaining the loading sequence. As far as Pellets, save your money and buy a lb of loose FFFg amd a powder measure. I used the pellets when I first started, they work but are expensive and you wind up crushing them. Good luck. I will tell you when you first squeeze her off, the addiction begins lol.

Rookie21 · February 29, 2016, 04:31 PM

I use 17gr by weight not volume. I'm using 3Fg Goex, corn meal as a filler and seating a .454 ball that I cast with a Lee mold, just below the surface of the cylinder. Shot a 99 on an international target at 25 yards with it.

wogpotter · February 29, 2016, 05:52 PM

FWIW many .44s are in a "sweet spot" at 27~30 Gr, but its not a max load.
Brass frames need lighter loads & I doubt the manuals are different so they just went with a safe overall load maybe?

Hawg · February 29, 2016, 06:10 PM

You can weigh real bp, that's not a problem.

2damnold4this · February 29, 2016, 06:21 PM

Quote:

That's weird. I just looked at three manuals and they all said 12-15. I guess it could be by weight but I don't know what the weight difference is.

I took a look at my Lee powder dipper chart and it claims the 2.2cc dipper holds 35 grains of fffg and 27 grains of Pyrodex P.

rodwhaincamo · February 29, 2016, 06:21 PM

I've not tried the weaker "target" loads in mine as it's a hunting sidearm. I found that 30 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford or Triple 7 give me the best groups at 15 yds with a ball or my 170 or 195 grn bullets (the 195 grn bullet is just 0.460" long), and this is not a max load, which opened up the group a bit.

Mine is a 2013 Pietta model.

brotherg · February 29, 2016, 07:10 PM

My half cent. Uberti 1858 steel frame. Shot 40 grains Goex fffg for a long time, was what the gun store sold me on my powder flask. Gatofeo wad and 454 round ball. Bought a Uberti colt and switched to 30 grains. Have used both 10 and 11 Remington caps. I also have a "can" of Pyrodex p and other than it stinks different really can't tell the difference. Much prefer the old fashioned stench of the real stuff.

preboomer · March 1, 2016, 01:32 PM

PMs, I've received a couple of informative PMs on this topic. I attempted to respond yesterday but somehow managed to send the originals back to the sender. Tried to respond this morning but when I finished the response found out I'd been logged out and the response was gone when I logged back in. I don't have time to figure this out right now but I appreciate the input and will try to get back to senders later today. Thanks.

drobs · March 2, 2016, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preboomer

Is anyone using or tried Hodgdon Pyrodex 30 gr Pellets for 44 & 45 black powder revolvers? They're getting good reviews for being cleaner and safer than black powder as well as easier/faster to load. They look to be considerably more expensive than black powder or standard pyrodex and I don't recall seeing anything about their accuracy.

If you want instant gratification - try out the pellets. While spendy - them plus caps and 454 ball = instant gratification.

At least for 100rds.

rodwhaincamo · March 2, 2016, 05:38 PM

Or you can make paper cartridges and use exactly what you want.

35 grns of 3F Olde E or T7 work well in my ROA, and 30 grns of either in my NMA, though I've only tried increments of 5 grns starting with 20. They are slightly more energetic than the pellets.

February 28, 2016, 05:21 PM	#2
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Who made it and how old is it? A current production (last 10 or so years) Pietta shoots best with .454 round ball and Remington #10 Percussion caps. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

February 28, 2016, 06:20 PM	#4
preboomer Member Join Date: February 9, 2016 Posts: 31	1858 Remington 44s Thanks for the info and load data. I should have said just ordered it. Cabela's for 249.95 with an extra Cylinder. It's supposed to be here next week. Are there any markings on them that would indicate a date of mfg. I'd think it was made in the last ten years unless they've been having trouble moving them. I've got a lot to learn about this. I'd never shot a black powder revolver until a couple of days ago. Someone at the range had one of these 1858 Pieta 44 Remingtons. I shot it at 7 and 25 yards and it seemed as accurate as my cartridge handguns.

February 28, 2016, 06:40 PM	#6
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 731	Any way...I shoot my 1858 with #11 caps (pinched) and 28 grains behind a .452 ball, all go's well with mine. __________________ Sent from my Tandy 1000

February 28, 2016, 09:30 PM	#12
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	The pellets are really expensive, I've never used them. #10 caps and .454 balls is what you'll need. I use .451s for my 1858 remington because that's the mold I have for it. Go for the .454s. You can also pinch #11 caps to fit the nipples snug if thats all you can find. As for the load, the owners manual says 28 grains pyrodex p (FFFG) and 35 grains Goex FFFG powder as a max. Have fun! __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

March 1, 2016, 01:32 PM	#23
preboomer Member Join Date: February 9, 2016 Posts: 31	1858 Remington 44s PMs, I've received a couple of informative PMs on this topic. I attempted to respond yesterday but somehow managed to send the originals back to the sender. Tried to respond this morning but when I finished the response found out I'd been logged out and the response was gone when I logged back in. I don't have time to figure this out right now but I appreciate the input and will try to get back to senders later today. Thanks.

February 28, 2016, 04:23 PM	#1
preboomer Member Join Date: February 9, 2016 Posts: 31	1858 Remington 44 ?s Just got one of these, first black powder firearm. From what I've read there's some different opinions on what to shoot in it. 30 grains of powder or pyrodex equivalent seems to be commonly accepted. However; some say .451 ball some say .454, some say size 10 percussion caps some say 11. Will they all work ok or is there enough difference to make a difference?

February 28, 2016, 05:29 PM	#3
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	It depends on the gun. I find CCI #10s work well with both my Uberti and Pietta 1858s. Different manufacturers are different sizes even within the same # class. You'll have to try them to find out. Generally they will like .454 balls. The way you tell is when you seat the ball in the chamber it must shave a small ring of lead around the entire perimeter of the ball. This is how you know you have a good tight fitting ball. Loose balls will result in chain fires where multiple chambers go off simultaneously. 30 grains is the max load. You will probably find maximum accuracy at around 18 grains 3F Goex with round ball. Steve

February 28, 2016, 07:03 PM	#7
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 568	When you receive your new Remington, look for two letters inside of a box like "CN" on your frame or barrel. That is the date code. CN is 2015 for instance. Then click on this link and scroll to the bottom of the page, it shows Italian date codes from 1940 through to the future to 2030. http://shotguns.se/html/italy.html

February 28, 2016, 07:10 PM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	I find that Remington and CCI #10 caps to work equally well but I prefer CCI. I get too many Remington caps that lose the priming compound. My normal charge is 30 grains but I have used 40 grains. By all means use .454 balls. .451's may shave a ring and still move under recoil.

February 28, 2016, 07:42 PM	#9
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,606	I shot my Pietta 1858 today and had a great time. I used .454 diameter balls and 30 grains of Goex 3f. I look forward to tinkering with the load and maybe turkey hunting with it but it was hitting pretty darn good.

February 28, 2016, 07:49 PM	#10
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	.454 round balls work well in my original '58 Remington (1864) as well as my Pietta repro.

February 28, 2016, 08:39 PM	#11
preboomer Member Join Date: February 9, 2016 Posts: 31	1858 Remington 44s Is anyone using or tried Hodgdon Pyrodex 30 gr Pellets for 44 & 45 black powder revolvers? They're getting good reviews for being cleaner and safer than black powder as well as easier/faster to load. They look to be considerably more expensive than black powder or standard pyrodex and I don't recall seeing anything about their accuracy.

February 28, 2016, 10:10 PM	#14
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,606	My Pietta manual gives a recommended load of 12-15 grains of FFFg and a max load of 35 grains of FFFG black powder and 28 grains of Pyrodex. I'm assuming that they are talking about weights of Pyrodex instead of volume.

February 28, 2016, 10:24 PM	#15
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	That's weird. I just looked at three manuals and they all said 12-15. I guess it could be by weight but I don't know what the weight difference is.

February 29, 2016, 10:03 AM	#16
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,704	I use .454 home cast roundball, Remington #10 caps (sportsmans warehouse keeps them in stock) and loose FFFG Real black powder. With a lubed felt wad between the powder amd ball. Look up dualist1954 on you tube. He does a great job explaining the loading sequence. As far as Pellets, save your money and buy a lb of loose FFFg amd a powder measure. I used the pellets when I first started, they work but are expensive and you wind up crushing them. Good luck. I will tell you when you first squeeze her off, the addiction begins lol.

February 29, 2016, 04:31 PM	#17
Rookie21 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 212	I use 17gr by weight not volume. I'm using 3Fg Goex, corn meal as a filler and seating a .454 ball that I cast with a Lee mold, just below the surface of the cylinder. Shot a 99 on an international target at 25 yards with it.

February 29, 2016, 05:52 PM	#18
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	FWIW many .44s are in a "sweet spot" at 27~30 Gr, but its not a max load. Brass frames need lighter loads & I doubt the manuals are different so they just went with a safe overall load maybe?

February 29, 2016, 06:10 PM	#19
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,376	You can weigh real bp, that's not a problem.

February 29, 2016, 06:21 PM	#21
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	I've not tried the weaker "target" loads in mine as it's a hunting sidearm. I found that 30 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford or Triple 7 give me the best groups at 15 yds with a ball or my 170 or 195 grn bullets (the 195 grn bullet is just 0.460" long), and this is not a max load, which opened up the group a bit. Mine is a 2013 Pietta model.

February 29, 2016, 07:10 PM	#22
brotherg Member Join Date: February 6, 2016 Location: Payne Springs, Texas Posts: 56	My half cent. Uberti 1858 steel frame. Shot 40 grains Goex fffg for a long time, was what the gun store sold me on my powder flask. Gatofeo wad and 454 round ball. Bought a Uberti colt and switched to 30 grains. Have used both 10 and 11 Remington caps. I also have a "can" of Pyrodex p and other than it stinks different really can't tell the difference. Much prefer the old fashioned stench of the real stuff.

March 2, 2016, 05:38 PM	#25
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Or you can make paper cartridges and use exactly what you want. 35 grns of 3F Olde E or T7 work well in my ROA, and 30 grns of either in my NMA, though I've only tried increments of 5 grns starting with 20. They are slightly more energetic than the pellets.