9mm bullet accuracy tests???

litenite99 · February 19, 2016, 06:07 PM

has anyone here done any extensive accuracy testing with 9mm. Im curious about the accuracy differences in bullet profiles and weights. I have been loading 9mm for about a year. I started off loading 115gr berrys rn, and moved to 124s. Im now trying 147s. The 124 seemed to me to be more accurate than the 115 grain of the same profile. this all has me thinking if any of the other bullet profiles might be more accurate than the round nose ive been shooting, or if a different weight may be a big factor. If anyone has any insight or knows of any related threads id appreciate any info.

cryogenic419 · February 19, 2016, 06:26 PM

What distance are you looking to shoot?

litenite99 · February 19, 2016, 06:31 PM

25-30yrds mostly

MarkCO · February 19, 2016, 06:33 PM

I have probably tested 50 different bullets in 9mm through 6 different pistols.

Consistently, 124/125 grain hollow points have provided the best accuracy. I even went so far as to machine a cavity in several 135 grain 9mm bullets and yep, they were more accurate than the stock bullets.

While I can "mess" with the results a tad by using faster or slower powders, changing spring rates etc., my best groups are all with optimized 124 to 130 grain HP in 9mm. There are some pistols where the 115s are better and some where the 147s are better, but those are usually explainable by something in the group of parameters and in a rare case or two, just an odd pistol.

Notice I did not say "jacketed". While it follows, there are plated and lead HP bullets that are economical to shoot in high volume if you so desire. My two favorites are the Xtreme 124HP and the Hornady 125 HAP.

jag2 · February 19, 2016, 06:40 PM

There are so many variables (powder, person, pistol, just to name a few) any results would really be meaningless.

litenite99 · February 19, 2016, 07:11 PM

MarkCO thanks for the info ill have to try the hollow points, i have not tried them yet.

firewrench044 · February 19, 2016, 07:20 PM

I load for personal use and for my son and granddaughter
( they shoot in competition ) I was using WIN. 115gr FMJ
We use 115gr because they have less recoil ( muzzle flip )
to get back on target faster and at 1100 FPS still have enough
energy to knock down the steel plate targets
the rifling in some guns do not like lead or plated bullets
I purchased in bulk ( 3 cases (3660 bullets per case ) )
When my supplier could not supply another case of bullets I tried
115gr FMJ concave base from Everglades Ammo
same head stamp cases same primer same powder and charge
( WIN. 231 & HP38 )
I found that the concave base bullets had a 50% smaller pattern
I am about to order my third batch of them ( 4000 bullets per batch )

Wreck-n-Crew · February 19, 2016, 07:47 PM

Rifling twist rate is another effect on bullet accuracy. However I've watched people much better than me plink targets at 100 yards with a 9mm using 115gr and 124 gr with the same gun with ease.

Ive found in my loads that most accuracy begins at the middle of the road loads and up. I mostly run 15-124 gr and cast coated bullets with different profiles.

Ive used several powders and varying accuracy is minimal at best fme. Ymmv.

Mobuck · February 19, 2016, 08:29 PM

Once upon a time, I attempted to use a convertible Ruger Blackhawk(9mm cylinder) w/ 3X scope to test accuracy of 9mm ammo. Nothing shot well enough to even make testing worthwhile. Most likely this was the result of .355 bullets and .357-.358 bore. If this wasn't the reason, my only other conclusion is: 9mm ammo just isn't very accurate.

Tsquared · February 19, 2016, 11:14 PM

I have had the best accuracy with hard cast bullets running at about 950-1050 fps with a fast burning powder. My current plinking ammo is a plated conical flat nose that is a close second. I have found the 124/125 grain to be in the sweet spot. Anything heavier or lighter seams to be less accurate or have other issues.

Dufus · February 19, 2016, 11:43 PM

I cast a 135 grn. HP sized to .357". HS6 and VV N340 are by far the best powders I have shot with this bullet.

I am not a fan of hard cast and my bullets run BHN 8 to close to BHN 10.

Accuracy has been in the 2-3" range between 3 pistols.

The HP bullet will expand to almost double caliber at maybe 25 yds.

Over all the N340 is the cleanest powder I have shot thru them and during night shooting, there has been no detectable flash from the muzzle.

Chronographed 10 shots @ 1074 fps with an ES of 11 with the N340.

FrankenMauser · February 20, 2016, 12:23 AM

122-135 gr bullets work best for most people that I know.
Hollow base bullets usually shoot quite well.

For cast bullets, I like that same weight range (122-135 gr).
For plated bullets, I prefer 120-125 gr.
For jacketed bullets, on the very rare occasion that I load them, I use 124 or 125 gr HPs, or jump to 147 gr FMJs.

If you ask the self-appointed "experts" within my shooting group, you'll hear that no truncated cone or conical flat point will ever shoot well. But, those idiots have only ever tried those designs in commercial cast super-hard alloys. And their only complaints at the time were of extreme barrel leading (caused by bad bore-to-bullet fit, the hard alloy, and +P velocities; you dimwits!).
So, in my opinion, they never gave the bullets a fair chance.

If you shoot cast bullets, continue reading. If you plan to stick with plated or jacketed bullets, feel free to skip the rest of this post.

Personally, I shoot primarily 122 gr LFPs (conical flat point). They're good enough for potatoes and rabbits at 15 yards, and that's all I can expect. With handguns, even a "bad" load is more accurate than I am.

Right now, I'm still working through a large supply of BHN 17 commercial cast bullets that I bought a few years ago. They're harder than I like, and do cause some notable barrel leading (which does degrade accuracy), but they're still good enough and the price was unbelievable.

In the limited amount of accuracy testing that my skill will allow (and drawing experience from other cartridges and firearms), I have found that softer alloys usually perform better.
In handgun cartridges running 25,000 psi or more (9mm is 35k), I like my bullets right around 9-10.5 BHN (even for full power .44 Mag). That's super-ultra-mega-extra-soft, compared to most commercial bullets; and even softer than clip-on-wheel-weight alloy. But it seals the bore better, and results in significantly less leading (if any).

I have a new 135 gr HP mold (0.357" diameter) sitting here. Soon, I'll give some of those a try in an alloy around BHN 8-9.

9x45 · February 20, 2016, 08:34 AM

Montana Gold JHPs were the most accurate I have ever used. Part of it is geometry in that a hollow point presents more surface area to the rifling than flat point/round nose of the same weight.

spEKTre · February 21, 2016, 05:49 PM

I've done some pretty extensive testing of different powders and bullets shapes/weights with a 9mm STI Range Master with custom bull barrel made by Ray Pulver here in Australia. I found some powders just didn't burn well and some did. WST is awesome in it but can get dirty quick, I found a good combination of a 100gr SWC with 2.7gr of WST or AP50N at the same weight produced 1" groups @ 50 Yards. 115gr SWC with the same powders worked very well as did the 130gr SWC projectile, the impact point on the 130 was a little lower but they all come out within 1" @ 50 yards scoped and sandbagged.

I never tried any jacketed ammo as my range bans their use, however the conicals and round nose shaped projectiles never worked as good as the SWC. Plus the SWC flew around 1100 fps and they cut very nice holes in my cards, when I run out of WST as its almost impossible to get here I will test out some Vihtavuori N320 as I tried the N330 and it spat powder out the end of the barrell.

Powders that simply didn't work on low charges were AP70N ( Hodgons Universal ) Power Pistol and Blue Dot which are too slow. Now I will point out that the STI is modded pretty heavily to shoot the WA1500 match and the slide spring is about 8lbs so to cycle on low charge rounds for accuracy.

BigJimP · February 21, 2016, 08:05 PM

Most accurate bullets I've tested were Montana Gold 115 gr FMJ RN.../ and I only did this for my own curiosity - not meant to be scientific. I tested Montana Gold, Berry's and Rainier ...because in my area its what I could get easily / my buddies shoot some of all 3 ...and we were debating this issue over lunch. Most of my buddies picked bullets based on cost...when they needed some.

....and I tested them against Montana Gold 124gr FMJ RN, Berry's 115gr plated & 124gr plated RN -- and Rainier Ballistics 115gr and 124gr RN.....in a variety of my guns....Sig 226, Wilson Combat 5" 1911, KImber 4" 1911 and a Sig 239...at 8 Yds ( to take my eyes out of the equation )...

and changing guns just muddied the results significantly ...especially in the shorter barrel Sig 239's.../ and different triggers, etc.../ I knew the most accurate gun in 9mm I have is the Wilson 5"...

So I went back and tested them in my primary 9mm - the Wilson Combat 5", 1911 only.../ shooting at a 3" bulls eye target at 8 yds / off hand, standing / 5 shot strings so it wasn't eye fatigue that was changing the results. I loaded everything myself...4.6gr TiteGroup...same overall length...my press is a Dillon 650. I loaded 100 rds of each bullet ( 2 boxes). I tested 20 bullets from each type ....in 5 shot groups. I saved the rest - for my buddies to shoot a few rounds and see if they concurred.

The least accurate were Rainier...and if you take a handful of Rainiers plated bullets and weigh each one ...you get more variation than the other bullets / some varied by 4 grains or more..../ some of them were a little abnormal in terms of shape ..and I know their electro plating is pretty thin and presumably not consistent. I got the most "flyers" from Rainier bullets in my gun - groups with flyers were about 5".

Berry's were 30% or so tighter groups than Rainier...their weights were more consistent...plating is thicker....they were consistent - and I didn't get many flyers - groups were about 3.5" ...or about 1.5" tighter groups.

Montana Gold 115 and 124gr were very close to the same. They were by far the most consistent in terms of weight - when you grab a handful out of a case. They were about 40% better than Berry's...no flyers..and 2" groups. Some 5 shot strings were closer to 1" groups.
---------------
My buddies shot some of the ammo in the same 5 shot strings...Springfield 1911, another Wilson 1911, a Sig 229, a Glock 17 and 34, an XD....

They all had the best results with either 115gr or 124gr Montana Gold....they all shot bigger groups ( 25% or so bigger ) with Berry's and Rainier...and for the most part, they shot the worst groups with the Rainier.
---------------
While we are all "shooters"...we are also all over 60 yrs old.../ and they bought me lunch when we were done...

/ and I've kept shooting Montana Gold and whipping their butts most weeks in our "Tactical timed drills" - drawing from holsters - having a few laughs..at our local range..

...when their stock of Rainiers were gone..they all went to Berry's or Montana Gold ( whatever was cheaper when they needed a couple of cases). Most of us still shoot 6 - 10 boxes a week ...for training...for fun...

75% of us shoot the 115gr 9mm...one or two guys like the 124 gr...
-----------------
Not scientific...but take from it whatever works for you...

spEKTre · February 22, 2016, 02:45 AM

BigJim I assume you meant you tested your loads at 50 Yards ? 8 yards testing would have the muzzle flash burn the targets.

What I have found is pretty much anything shoots ok out of a 9mm up to 25 yards and you can load bullets backwards and you can hit the 9 ring.

Up after about 30-40 yards things get a little different and @ 50 yards most 9mm would be lucky to group @ dinner plate size or worse. Out of the box Sigs tend to shoot well stock but most other 9mm's I have seen do the dinner plate thing.

I don't know what match you shoot but over here you can't get away from shooting a match that doesn't have a 50 yard or 50 metre string with the 9mm being calibre of choice. The WA1500 Match you have 48 shots @ 50 yards so if your gun can't group like a golf ball at that distance your toast.

February 19, 2016, 06:07 PM	#1
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	9mm bullet accuracy tests??? has anyone here done any extensive accuracy testing with 9mm. Im curious about the accuracy differences in bullet profiles and weights. I have been loading 9mm for about a year. I started off loading 115gr berrys rn, and moved to 124s. Im now trying 147s. The 124 seemed to me to be more accurate than the 115 grain of the same profile. this all has me thinking if any of the other bullet profiles might be more accurate than the round nose ive been shooting, or if a different weight may be a big factor. If anyone has any insight or knows of any related threads id appreciate any info.

February 19, 2016, 06:33 PM	#4
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,316	I have probably tested 50 different bullets in 9mm through 6 different pistols. Consistently, 124/125 grain hollow points have provided the best accuracy. I even went so far as to machine a cavity in several 135 grain 9mm bullets and yep, they were more accurate than the stock bullets. While I can "mess" with the results a tad by using faster or slower powders, changing spring rates etc., my best groups are all with optimized 124 to 130 grain HP in 9mm. There are some pistols where the 115s are better and some where the 147s are better, but those are usually explainable by something in the group of parameters and in a rare case or two, just an odd pistol. Notice I did not say "jacketed". While it follows, there are plated and lead HP bullets that are economical to shoot in high volume if you so desire. My two favorites are the Xtreme 124HP and the Hornady 125 HAP. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

February 20, 2016, 12:23 AM	#12
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,471	122-135 gr bullets work best for most people that I know. Hollow base bullets usually shoot quite well. For cast bullets, I like that same weight range (122-135 gr). For plated bullets, I prefer 120-125 gr. For jacketed bullets, on the very rare occasion that I load them, I use 124 or 125 gr HPs, or jump to 147 gr FMJs. If you ask the self-appointed "experts" within my shooting group, you'll hear that no truncated cone or conical flat point will ever shoot well. But, those idiots have only ever tried those designs in commercial cast super-hard alloys. And their only complaints at the time were of extreme barrel leading (caused by bad bore-to-bullet fit, the hard alloy, and +P velocities; you dimwits!). So, in my opinion, they never gave the bullets a fair chance. If you shoot cast bullets, continue reading. If you plan to stick with plated or jacketed bullets, feel free to skip the rest of this post. Personally, I shoot primarily 122 gr LFPs (conical flat point). They're good enough for potatoes and rabbits at 15 yards, and that's all I can expect. With handguns, even a "bad" load is more accurate than I am. Right now, I'm still working through a large supply of BHN 17 commercial cast bullets that I bought a few years ago. They're harder than I like, and do cause some notable barrel leading (which does degrade accuracy), but they're still good enough and the price was unbelievable. In the limited amount of accuracy testing that my skill will allow (and drawing experience from other cartridges and firearms), I have found that softer alloys usually perform better. In handgun cartridges running 25,000 psi or more (9mm is 35k), I like my bullets right around 9-10.5 BHN (even for full power .44 Mag). That's super-ultra-mega-extra-soft, compared to most commercial bullets; and even softer than clip-on-wheel-weight alloy. But it seals the bore better, and results in significantly less leading (if any). I have a new 135 gr HP mold (0.357" diameter) sitting here. Soon, I'll give some of those a try in an alloy around BHN 8-9. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

February 21, 2016, 08:05 PM	#15
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Most accurate bullets I've tested were Montana Gold 115 gr FMJ RN.../ and I only did this for my own curiosity - not meant to be scientific. I tested Montana Gold, Berry's and Rainier ...because in my area its what I could get easily / my buddies shoot some of all 3 ...and we were debating this issue over lunch. Most of my buddies picked bullets based on cost...when they needed some. ....and I tested them against Montana Gold 124gr FMJ RN, Berry's 115gr plated & 124gr plated RN -- and Rainier Ballistics 115gr and 124gr RN.....in a variety of my guns....Sig 226, Wilson Combat 5" 1911, KImber 4" 1911 and a Sig 239...at 8 Yds ( to take my eyes out of the equation )... and changing guns just muddied the results significantly ...especially in the shorter barrel Sig 239's.../ and different triggers, etc.../ I knew the most accurate gun in 9mm I have is the Wilson 5"... So I went back and tested them in my primary 9mm - the Wilson Combat 5", 1911 only.../ shooting at a 3" bulls eye target at 8 yds / off hand, standing / 5 shot strings so it wasn't eye fatigue that was changing the results. I loaded everything myself...4.6gr TiteGroup...same overall length...my press is a Dillon 650. I loaded 100 rds of each bullet ( 2 boxes). I tested 20 bullets from each type ....in 5 shot groups. I saved the rest - for my buddies to shoot a few rounds and see if they concurred. The least accurate were Rainier...and if you take a handful of Rainiers plated bullets and weigh each one ...you get more variation than the other bullets / some varied by 4 grains or more..../ some of them were a little abnormal in terms of shape ..and I know their electro plating is pretty thin and presumably not consistent. I got the most "flyers" from Rainier bullets in my gun - groups with flyers were about 5". Berry's were 30% or so tighter groups than Rainier...their weights were more consistent...plating is thicker....they were consistent - and I didn't get many flyers - groups were about 3.5" ...or about 1.5" tighter groups. Montana Gold 115 and 124gr were very close to the same. They were by far the most consistent in terms of weight - when you grab a handful out of a case. They were about 40% better than Berry's...no flyers..and 2" groups. Some 5 shot strings were closer to 1" groups. --------------- My buddies shot some of the ammo in the same 5 shot strings...Springfield 1911, another Wilson 1911, a Sig 229, a Glock 17 and 34, an XD.... They all had the best results with either 115gr or 124gr Montana Gold....they all shot bigger groups ( 25% or so bigger ) with Berry's and Rainier...and for the most part, they shot the worst groups with the Rainier. --------------- While we are all "shooters"...we are also all over 60 yrs old.../ and they bought me lunch when we were done.../ and I've kept shooting Montana Gold and whipping their butts most weeks in our "Tactical timed drills" - drawing from holsters - having a few laughs..at our local range.. ...when their stock of Rainiers were gone..they all went to Berry's or Montana Gold ( whatever was cheaper when they needed a couple of cases). Most of us still shoot 6 - 10 boxes a week ...for training...for fun... 75% of us shoot the 115gr 9mm...one or two guys like the 124 gr... ----------------- Not scientific...but take from it whatever works for you...

February 19, 2016, 06:26 PM	#2
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	What distance are you looking to shoot?

February 19, 2016, 06:31 PM	#3
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	25-30yrds mostly

February 19, 2016, 06:40 PM	#5
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	There are so many variables (powder, person, pistol, just to name a few) any results would really be meaningless.

February 19, 2016, 07:11 PM	#6
litenite99 Member Join Date: March 11, 2015 Location: louisiana Posts: 79	MarkCO thanks for the info ill have to try the hollow points, i have not tried them yet.

February 19, 2016, 07:20 PM	#7
firewrench044 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Location: Fort Pierce, Florida Posts: 381	I load for personal use and for my son and granddaughter ( they shoot in competition ) I was using WIN. 115gr FMJ We use 115gr because they have less recoil ( muzzle flip ) to get back on target faster and at 1100 FPS still have enough energy to knock down the steel plate targets the rifling in some guns do not like lead or plated bullets I purchased in bulk ( 3 cases (3660 bullets per case ) ) When my supplier could not supply another case of bullets I tried 115gr FMJ concave base from Everglades Ammo same head stamp cases same primer same powder and charge ( WIN. 231 & HP38 ) I found that the concave base bullets had a 50% smaller pattern I am about to order my third batch of them ( 4000 bullets per batch )

February 19, 2016, 07:47 PM	#8
Wreck-n-Crew Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,820	Rifling twist rate is another effect on bullet accuracy. However I've watched people much better than me plink targets at 100 yards with a 9mm using 115gr and 124 gr with the same gun with ease. Ive found in my loads that most accuracy begins at the middle of the road loads and up. I mostly run 15-124 gr and cast coated bullets with different profiles. Ive used several powders and varying accuracy is minimal at best fme. Ymmv.

February 19, 2016, 08:29 PM	#9
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Once upon a time, I attempted to use a convertible Ruger Blackhawk(9mm cylinder) w/ 3X scope to test accuracy of 9mm ammo. Nothing shot well enough to even make testing worthwhile. Most likely this was the result of .355 bullets and .357-.358 bore. If this wasn't the reason, my only other conclusion is: 9mm ammo just isn't very accurate.

February 19, 2016, 11:14 PM	#10
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	I have had the best accuracy with hard cast bullets running at about 950-1050 fps with a fast burning powder. My current plinking ammo is a plated conical flat nose that is a close second. I have found the 124/125 grain to be in the sweet spot. Anything heavier or lighter seams to be less accurate or have other issues.

February 19, 2016, 11:43 PM	#11
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I cast a 135 grn. HP sized to .357". HS6 and VV N340 are by far the best powders I have shot with this bullet. I am not a fan of hard cast and my bullets run BHN 8 to close to BHN 10. Accuracy has been in the 2-3" range between 3 pistols. The HP bullet will expand to almost double caliber at maybe 25 yds. Over all the N340 is the cleanest powder I have shot thru them and during night shooting, there has been no detectable flash from the muzzle. Chronographed 10 shots @ 1074 fps with an ES of 11 with the N340.

February 20, 2016, 08:34 AM	#13
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Montana Gold JHPs were the most accurate I have ever used. Part of it is geometry in that a hollow point presents more surface area to the rifling than flat point/round nose of the same weight.

February 21, 2016, 05:49 PM	#14
spEKTre Member Join Date: February 21, 2016 Posts: 17	I've done some pretty extensive testing of different powders and bullets shapes/weights with a 9mm STI Range Master with custom bull barrel made by Ray Pulver here in Australia. I found some powders just didn't burn well and some did. WST is awesome in it but can get dirty quick, I found a good combination of a 100gr SWC with 2.7gr of WST or AP50N at the same weight produced 1" groups @ 50 Yards. 115gr SWC with the same powders worked very well as did the 130gr SWC projectile, the impact point on the 130 was a little lower but they all come out within 1" @ 50 yards scoped and sandbagged. I never tried any jacketed ammo as my range bans their use, however the conicals and round nose shaped projectiles never worked as good as the SWC. Plus the SWC flew around 1100 fps and they cut very nice holes in my cards, when I run out of WST as its almost impossible to get here I will test out some Vihtavuori N320 as I tried the N330 and it spat powder out the end of the barrell. Powders that simply didn't work on low charges were AP70N ( Hodgons Universal ) Power Pistol and Blue Dot which are too slow. Now I will point out that the STI is modded pretty heavily to shoot the WA1500 match and the slide spring is about 8lbs so to cycle on low charge rounds for accuracy.

February 22, 2016, 02:45 AM	#16
spEKTre Member Join Date: February 21, 2016 Posts: 17	BigJim I assume you meant you tested your loads at 50 Yards ? 8 yards testing would have the muzzle flash burn the targets. What I have found is pretty much anything shoots ok out of a 9mm up to 25 yards and you can load bullets backwards and you can hit the 9 ring. Up after about 30-40 yards things get a little different and @ 50 yards most 9mm would be lucky to group @ dinner plate size or worse. Out of the box Sigs tend to shoot well stock but most other 9mm's I have seen do the dinner plate thing. I don't know what match you shoot but over here you can't get away from shooting a match that doesn't have a 50 yard or 50 metre string with the 9mm being calibre of choice. The WA1500 Match you have 48 shots @ 50 yards so if your gun can't group like a golf ball at that distance your toast.