Super Zappie hype--r speed

WhatRecoil · August 22, 2015, 09:38 PM

I didn't know whether to post this here or in the reloading section, and considering what I'm talking about maybe it belongs in neither. OK, Here we go....is it just me or does it seem that there are more and more of these extremely lightweight for caliber pistol rounds being offered with horrible performance compared to FBI standards, and video game marketing and packaging, magic ninja bullets made of materials other than politically incorrect lead etc.

If you're going to train to defend your life with a firearm, then you are responsible for your ammo choice. It's bad enough to have to use the pistol in the first place, but if I'm forced to do that by some drug crazed bath crystal psycho then I'm going to use proper major vendor defense grade ammo---LEO ammo if I can find it. Why??? Because those men and women spend every day of thier lives loaded up with common sense 9/40/45/357/10mm ammo, not space cadet bullets.

Are we being fed this hyped up phaser gun crap as some kind of backdoor liberal agenda, or is this just good old fashioned American fecal matter marketing aimed at the uninformed who never even bother to watch a YouTube video much less ask a decent cop what the department prescribes for carry?? Are lead projectiles becoming a military/LEO ONLY accessory and the lowly citizen forced to defend home and family with flower friendly CA APPROVED silly putty bullets?

If I'm going to put the time and money into training, it's got to work, as I am on a fixed income and live life in a wheelchair now....otherwise give me a 12 ga and Ill stay home

**JohnKSa** · August 22, 2015, 11:15 PM

People don't like the idea that if they are put in a life-threatening situation it will be their determination and skill that saves their lives. They want to rely on magic bullets, magic guns, magic techniques, etc.

There are always lots of people willing to sell magic to people looking to buy.

samsmix · August 23, 2015, 04:12 AM

Well put JohnKsa. There will be some good and honest developments in the ammo industry that are really going to make a difference. We'll know what they are because they will come from a major manufacturer, and many agencies will approve its use.

The RIP (can you imagine defending THAT choice in court!!!), extreme shock....I can't think of them all...were designed to bilk money from the gun owners that still live in their Mom's basement.

raimius · August 23, 2015, 04:53 AM

If something looks and sounds impressive, it will sell.
Doesn't matter if it actually performs to standardized testing specs...

RIP ammo makes an impressive looking wound profile in ballistics gel...the thing people buying it tend to forget is ballistics gel is a method for comparison, not how it will perform against an attacker. (Hence the FBI penetration requirements being so deep.)

g.willikers · August 23, 2015, 09:02 AM

For many people, who have no background in guns and ammo, high velocity sells, much like horsepower claims for vehicles.
The numbers can look impressive.

kozak6 · August 23, 2015, 09:58 AM

If you aren't a firearm enthusiast, you are going to have to go by what the clerk tells you, or what the box says.

If you aren't familiar with physics, a high kinetic energy number will be very impressive.

I would swear I've seen ballistic gel photos on some ammo boxes. With penetration depth unmarked.

WhatRecoil · August 23, 2015, 12:21 PM

I hope they do come up with the magic bullet, but in the light of the reality of physics, I don't think it'll ever occur I wish to GOD somebody would come up with something effective against criminal elements that won't kill cops. But ya can't have your cake and eat it too. At the same time I understand that there are now elements of LEO that have openly said on natl. TV that they are AFRAID of guns and effective ammo.

If you don't have the bearings that it takes to be in LE, get out.

But stop trying to force the American public to stand defenseless against the criminals YOU COWER BEFORE BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION.

I'm not talking about RESPECT for what a weapon system can do to a human life, and then action according to that. I'm talking about a little kid crying for mommie and daddy afraid of a ticked off field mouse in the corner of the cabinet That kind of fear. That's not even being a real ADULT, much less LEO or military.

You folks are supposed to be trained to handle that junk. I know for a proven fact that I can outshoot offhand at 21 feet 7 out of 10 of the LEO'S I've "competed" against at matches at the local range I've shot against where I used to live. If I could've OUTRUN them time wise no contest at center mass and head shots.

Am I proud of that??? Hell no I'm not. I can still repeatedly hit a face sized steel target at 40 yards with a G30 with 230 grain ball ammo, and I don't shoot nearly as often as I should or need to. Is that a meat grinder on the street life or death scenario?? No. But if you can't hit CM/HS aiming at a B27 look out when your local crackhead wants your butt for his trophy case!!

I'd rather train with a Gurka Kukuri than this wannabe ninja snap cap PC fodder!!. At least the thing will stop the threat. You'd better believe if you loose an arm at the elbow...the fight is over.

Violence is the last resort not the first America, so if you have the means to do so train like your life depends on it, be intelligent, and avoid confrontation. If you are forced to do so then act and be willing to ACCEPT THE RESOPNSIBILITY OF YOUR OWN DOING. Self defense is not hunting, plinking, or range shooting, and ballistic gel is not a human life. Get REAL and think before you act.

Do not be deceived the way is in training....Musashi. TRAINING BEGINS in the mind and heart

samsmix · August 23, 2015, 02:34 PM

Amen!

August 22, 2015, 09:38 PM	#1
WhatRecoil Member Join Date: August 11, 2015 Posts: 36	Super Zappie hype--r speed I didn't know whether to post this here or in the reloading section, and considering what I'm talking about maybe it belongs in neither. OK, Here we go....is it just me or does it seem that there are more and more of these extremely lightweight for caliber pistol rounds being offered with horrible performance compared to FBI standards, and video game marketing and packaging, magic ninja bullets made of materials other than politically incorrect lead etc. If you're going to train to defend your life with a firearm, then you are responsible for your ammo choice. It's bad enough to have to use the pistol in the first place, but if I'm forced to do that by some drug crazed bath crystal psycho then I'm going to use proper major vendor defense grade ammo---LEO ammo if I can find it. Why??? Because those men and women spend every day of thier lives loaded up with common sense 9/40/45/357/10mm ammo, not space cadet bullets. Are we being fed this hyped up phaser gun crap as some kind of backdoor liberal agenda, or is this just good old fashioned American fecal matter marketing aimed at the uninformed who never even bother to watch a YouTube video much less ask a decent cop what the department prescribes for carry?? Are lead projectiles becoming a military/LEO ONLY accessory and the lowly citizen forced to defend home and family with flower friendly CA APPROVED silly putty bullets? If I'm going to put the time and money into training, it's got to work, as I am on a fixed income and live life in a wheelchair now....otherwise give me a 12 ga and Ill stay home

August 22, 2015, 11:15 PM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,570	People don't like the idea that if they are put in a life-threatening situation it will be their determination and skill that saves their lives. They want to rely on magic bullets, magic guns, magic techniques, etc. There are always lots of people willing to sell magic to people looking to buy. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

August 23, 2015, 04:12 AM	#3
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,283	Well put JohnKsa. There will be some good and honest developments in the ammo industry that are really going to make a difference. We'll know what they are because they will come from a major manufacturer, and many agencies will approve its use. The RIP (can you imagine defending THAT choice in court!!!), extreme shock....I can't think of them all...were designed to bilk money from the gun owners that still live in their Mom's basement. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

August 23, 2015, 12:21 PM	#7
WhatRecoil Member Join Date: August 11, 2015 Posts: 36	Don't get me wrong I hope they do come up with the magic bullet, but in the light of the reality of physics, I don't think it'll ever occur I wish to GOD somebody would come up with something effective against criminal elements that won't kill cops. But ya can't have your cake and eat it too. At the same time I understand that there are now elements of LEO that have openly said on natl. TV that they are AFRAID of guns and effective ammo. If you don't have the bearings that it takes to be in LE, get out. But stop trying to force the American public to stand defenseless against the criminals YOU COWER BEFORE BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. I'm not talking about RESPECT for what a weapon system can do to a human life, and then action according to that. I'm talking about a little kid crying for mommie and daddy afraid of a ticked off field mouse in the corner of the cabinet That kind of fear. That's not even being a real ADULT, much less LEO or military. You folks are supposed to be trained to handle that junk. I know for a proven fact that I can outshoot offhand at 21 feet 7 out of 10 of the LEO'S I've "competed" against at matches at the local range I've shot against where I used to live. If I could've OUTRUN them time wise no contest at center mass and head shots. Am I proud of that??? Hell no I'm not. I can still repeatedly hit a face sized steel target at 40 yards with a G30 with 230 grain ball ammo, and I don't shoot nearly as often as I should or need to. Is that a meat grinder on the street life or death scenario?? No. But if you can't hit CM/HS aiming at a B27 look out when your local crackhead wants your butt for his trophy case!! I'd rather train with a Gurka Kukuri than this wannabe ninja snap cap PC fodder!!. At least the thing will stop the threat. You'd better believe if you loose an arm at the elbow...the fight is over. Violence is the last resort not the first America, so if you have the means to do so train like your life depends on it, be intelligent, and avoid confrontation. If you are forced to do so then act and be willing to ACCEPT THE RESOPNSIBILITY OF YOUR OWN DOING. Self defense is not hunting, plinking, or range shooting, and ballistic gel is not a human life. Get REAL and think before you act. Do not be deceived the way is in training....Musashi. TRAINING BEGINS in the mind and heart Last edited by WhatRecoil; August 23, 2015 at 07:12 PM.

August 23, 2015, 02:34 PM	#8
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,283	Amen! __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

August 23, 2015, 04:53 AM	#4
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	If something looks and sounds impressive, it will sell. Doesn't matter if it actually performs to standardized testing specs... RIP ammo makes an impressive looking wound profile in ballistics gel...the thing people buying it tend to forget is ballistics gel is a method for comparison, not how it will perform against an attacker. (Hence the FBI penetration requirements being so deep.)

August 23, 2015, 09:02 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	For many people, who have no background in guns and ammo, high velocity sells, much like horsepower claims for vehicles. The numbers can look impressive.

August 23, 2015, 09:58 AM	#6
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	If you aren't a firearm enthusiast, you are going to have to go by what the clerk tells you, or what the box says. If you aren't familiar with physics, a high kinetic energy number will be very impressive. I would swear I've seen ballistic gel photos on some ammo boxes. With penetration depth unmarked.