Carry vs. Practice Ammo

[DeadEyeJack]

I just saw someone in another thread recommend a new shooter, who just purchased a .357 revolver, that they practice with regular .38 ammo and carry .38 +p. This is, quite frankly, completely backwards from my own practice method and was hoping someone could explain this to me.

My own methodology is that if you practice with a higher pressure round then in a SD situation, when the adrenaline kicks in and you basically revert to the muscle memory acquired during training, the lower pressure round would be better handled and you would be more likely to stay on target.

Thank you in advance everyone and I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the matter.
DEJ

[Art Eatman]

Majority of my practicing for eye/trigger finger/sight picture coordination has been with light loads. (In .45ACP, IPSC Major loads. In .357, loads about equal to .38 Special.)

I'd finish out a session with 12 to 50 rounds of "full house" ammo.

[Sharkbite]

I load my range/training ammo to duplicate my carry ammo.

147gn @ 975fps.

My thought is "train like you are going to fight". I am building a muscle memory of the exact recoil impulse with each shot fired. If you shoot anything different then the recoil impulse is different. The timing is thrown off and performance suffers

[Mobuck]

"I load my range/training ammo to duplicate my carry ammo."

That's my choice also. I carry 124 GoldDot (non-+P) so I got hold of several thousand "pull down" 124 GD bullets and load to similar velocity as my factory loaded carry ammo.

[AK103K]

"I load my range/training ammo to duplicate my carry ammo."

Yup, me too.

Ive never understood the theory of loading light for practice, then hot for carry, especially if there is a good bit of difference between the two.

[jmhyer]

Why have a .357 if you're never gonna shoot .357??

Practice with some .357 but mostly .38spl. Carry full power .357.

[Slimjim9]

I just saw someone in another thread recommend a new shooter, who just purchased a .357 revolver, that they practice with regular .38 ammo and carry .38 +p. This is, quite frankly, completely backwards from my own practice method and was hoping someone could explain this to me.

That was me, and I'll explain my reasons. First, I don't reload, so practicing with carry ammo would be extremely expensive. Second, most of my practice is trigger control and sight alignment, and hollow points don't provide any advantage over FMJ for that. Third, i just can't shoot very many rounds of my 38+P carry ammo in a session without aggravating arthritis and carpal tunnel issues (growing older sucks ).

Having said all that, I have been gravitating to Sharkbite's advice with the Glock 19 with the Winchester Train and Defend system where points 1 and 3 are less of an issue.

[Slimjim9]

Why have a .357 if you're never gonna shoot .357?

I'll answer that one too. Cuz the LCR357 shoots .38 way better for me than the LCR38 shoots .38. That simple.

[SocialAnarchist]

I practice with exactly the same ammunition I carry. Others thought process may vary. That's okay by me.

[maghexjunkie]

My groupings were not as tight when I changed from 9mm 115gr to 124gr. Now I just stick with 124gr.

[raimius]

Ideally, it would be the same.

That said, $0.22/rd beats $0.60/rd, so I don't use much carry ammo in practice sessions.

[riverratt]

I load my range/training ammo to duplicate my carry ammo

Exactly!

I am constantly criticized by friends and family for not carrying +p ammo. I tell them that that slight increase in velocity only limits penetration (usually) and makes for slower less accurate follow up shots. In my opinion you should always practice with what you use, and I'm not gonna beat my guns up running thousands of +p ammo through 'em a year. For me that's a 147 gr bullet at 950 fps in 9mm, a 230 gr bullet at 850 fps in .45, and my .40 is to be determined but most likely a 180 gr bullet at 1000 fps.

[TimSr]

If you are a new shooter, it is far better to learn the basics and fundmentals with light ammo, and work your way up as you progress. When learning the basics, recoil beyond your comfort instills bad habits.

Then there is the cost factor. If you can afford to punch paper on a regular basis with premium self defense ammo, I don't begrudge you, but I prefer punching paper with much cheaper bullets that have the same point of impact. Ultimately its best to work your way up to the point that you practice with ammo with similar feel to your defense ammo, but new shooters best off working their way up to it over time.

[OldMarksman]

^^^^^

Agree.

[Bake]

I may be looking at a new rule.

3. Train the way you want to fight, and you will fight, the way you train.
3a. In the middle of a gun fight, is not a good time to start experimenting with different ammunition.

[tedbeau]

If you are a new shooter, it is far better to learn the basics and fundmentals with light ammo, and work your way up as you progress. When learning the basics, recoil beyond your comfort instills bad habits.
Then there is the cost factor. If you can afford to punch paper on a regular basis with premium self defense ammo, I don't begrudge you, but I prefer punching paper with much cheaper bullets that have the same point of impact. Ultimately its best to work your way up to the point that you practice with ammo with similar feel to your defense ammo, but new shooters best off working their way up to it over time.

This was my experience, I bought a Glock 27 (40 caliber sub compact) for my EDC. Using factory ammo I developed a bad flinch due to the heavy recoil in a light gun. Now that I have started reloading, I am loading practice ammo that has allowed me more training, with lighter recoil and I have eliminated the flinch.

I still carry heavy self defense loads (Gold Dots). I am not concerned about the point of aim being different because at self defense differences is a half an inch going to matter? It might, but it might help you instead of hurt you too, since we can't seem to get bad guys to wear shirts with targets on them.
Also my flinch was only really noticeable when I was trying to make a perfect bulls eye shot and I was squeezing the trigger slowly. Once I started shooting IDPA I noticed the flinch isn't there as much because I am shooting faster so I don't anticipate the recoil.
In a real self defense scenario the adrenalin dump will override your fine muscle control and you will revert to muscle memory. Since I practice with light ammo to avoid the flinch the muscle memory should still give me smooth shots.

[smee78]

I perfer.to work on sight picture and trigger control rather than how much that range session just cost me, I do shoot my old defense ammo once I rotate it out. But I will admit you should shoot your defense ammo through your semi to ensure it will reliably function with it. I believe its just the opposite from what you said in your opening post. I will not feel the additional kick from plus p ammo when my adrenaline kicks in. When I go shoot at the range i'm working on muscle memory not ammo kick.

[Sharkbite]

If you are a new shooter, it is far better to learn the basics and fundmentals with light ammo, and work your way up as you progress.

I would put it out there, that if you are THAT new a shooter, you probably should not be carrying a pistol. To think you can go to a store, buy a pistol and a box of ammo, stick the gun in your waistband and be ready is ludicrous.

At that point you are a danger to yourself and others. Get some training, learn the gun, become at least consciously competent with your ability to SAFELY draw from concealment and your ability to hit where you want when you want.

By that time you should not need to use a light load to practice. So start shooting with a load that duplicates your carry ammo.

[TimSr]

To think you can go to a store, buy a pistol and a box of ammo, stick the gun in your waistband and be ready is ludicrous.

I agree. Who suggested that?

[Marty8613]

I make sure to at least once a month, buy a 50 round box of my carry ammo, and a box of a different carry ammo. 1st I shoot the new stuff, then shoot my current carry ammo, leaving enough to refill my carry mags. That way I get 50 of eval and 50 of current carry. I will sometimes like the new stuff better and buy it as carry ammo the next go round to double check the switch. This also keeps my carry ammo fresh.

Currently Winchester SXZ rides in my .380 and my 9mm. PDX1 for my .45

[SocialAnarchist]

I guess maybe I am unusual in that my very first pistol was a 1911A1 in .45acp. From day 1 I have shot it using full power 230 grain FMJ and JHP. I am not suggesting anyone do what I did, just that this is how I started.

[T. O'Heir]

"...practice with regular .38 ammo and carry .38 +p..." That's like saying use Regular gas for qualifying and High Octane for race day. Practice with what you intend using.

[Bake]

I guess maybe I am unusual in that my very first pistol was a 1911A1 in .45acp. From day 1 I have shot it using full power 230 grain FMJ and JHP. I am not suggesting anyone do what I did, just that this is how I started.

Uncle Sam's ammunition was the poorest ammunition ever loaded, but the price was right. All you need to do was enlist.

For all around handgun shooting practice, nothing beats a good 22. Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and other brands will provide you with excellent inexpensive trigger time.

[Jim243]

poorest ammunition ever loaded

It might have been the cheapest, but far from the poorest. A lot of dead enemy soldiers might disagree with you assessment. Now as to being match ammo it is not, but it was never intended for shooting matches but for shooting it works just fine. And after putting 1,000s and 1,000s of rounds of it down range it works and hits what you are shooting at.

Jim

[Bake]

It might have been the cheapest, but far from the poorest. A lot of dead enemy soldiers might disagree with you assessment. Now as to being match ammo it is not, but it was never intended for shooting matches but for shooting it works just fine. And after putting 1,000s and 1,000s of rounds of it down range it works and hits what you are shooting at.

Back In the 60s, I was a member of a pistol team in the 25th Air Div. (USAF). We had three grades of 45 acp. The G.I. ball ammunition which was anything straight out of an ammo can, marked from 1942 to 1952. Good for maybe 16 to 18" groups. Some of the guys would take this ammunition, disassemble and then would reassemble it using standard reloading equipment. The groups from this ammo would be less than 10". The real "Match" from Lackland Small Arms School was marked Match 64. would get maybe 4", depending on how fresh 1911a1 was.