36 conicals

[dr1445]

I am considering shooting conicals from my uberti rem nma. Looking at the lee mold 375-130-1r, the slug will be to small for the uberti which takes .380” balls. Is it possible to knurl the slug by rolling it under a file to bring it up to .380”? I also have a 36 rem nma by pietta but I will need to grind a clearance in the frame for that one to shoot conicals.

[swathdiver]

Why not use the Kaido conicals which are .380 and 144 grains? They shoot just as accurately as round balls in our Pietta Belt Revolver.

[Hellgate]

I use the LEE 130 gr conical in both my Uberti 1861 Navy (made in about 1970) and my Euroarms Remington Navies. If you push the conical down firmly against the powder the lead obturates a bit to hold it in the chamber. I've never had ball creep from the Lee conicals.

[dr1445]

not to interested in purchased bullets as i recently started casting, and had good results with the lee conical molds 450-200-1r & 457-220-1r. i find the uberti 36 a little more compact than the pietta replica, makes it easier to carry. now i have no excuse not to pick up the 370-130-1r mold.

[kwhi43]

There is one for sale for 13.00 over on American Longrilfes fourm.

[rodwhaincamo]

dr: Kaido sells his molds too.

You can also go to Accurate Molds and pick a design or create one.

[dr1445]

thanks for the link to the lee mold, now i am waiting for the sites red tape to clear so i contact the seller.

[DD4lifeusmc]

Why don't you actually measure the diameters of your chambers.
The projectile only needs to be 2 to 4 thousandths bigger.

[swathdiver]

Yes, the Uberti is more accurately sized but you can still get a mold from Kaido and cast your own as we do. If you want to thump game with a .36 or even just punch paper, there is none better for accuracy and stopping power.

Ever seen the penetration tests done by Mike Beliveau with the Kaido conicals compared to the Lee conicals?

[Flintlock53]

I sent an order to Kaido for a batch of conical bullets for my Ruger Old Army in 240 grn. They are good looking bullets. He also sent me a couple of his .36 cal bullets to look at. They would make a short range deer killer out of the .36 revolver. If the 240grn conical bullets work out like I think they will, I'm getting a mold since I do all of my own casting.
DR1445- if you want one of the .36 conical bullets to look at and measure I can send it to you.

Mike

[salvadore]

I bought a Uberti rem. Navy when Midway had them on sale and used lee conicals with their liquid alox. I've only shot it once, and the weather sucked, but it seemed to shoot fairly accurate and to the poa which surprised me.

[Rebel Dave]

So.... Who is Kaido,??, and how does one contact him,??.

Rebel Dave

[dr1445]

"Why don't you actually measure the diameters of your chambers.
The projectile only needs to be 2 to 4 thousandths bigger. "
the barrel bore for the uberti is .375 and the cylinder bore is .377. hellgate, the revolver is lyman/uberti also made in 1970.

[swathdiver]

Kaido Ojamma is a black powder shooter and hunter who developed a line of cap and ball conical bullets inspired by Elmer Keith's most successful bullets for the .45 Long Colt, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, etc.

He runs the yahoo forum internationalblackpowderhandgunhunters and while his email address escapes me, it's across the internet and youtube.

Those 240 grain conicals are awesome out of our Pietta Remingtons. These things make two .45 caliber holes through 300 lb hogs, through both shoulder and keep going! The little 200 went through a hog lengthwise when it charged Kaido last year.

[rodwhaincamo]

His bullets are a custom version from Lee's 255 grn .45 Colt bullet.

[Flintlock53]

Here is a price sheet and info letter Kaido sent to me-along with his email address. If you want, send him your cell or home phone and ask him to call you and visit about his bullets. Also, like someone mentioned, you can go to YouTube and type in Kaido Conicals and there is about 6 or 8 videos about the efficiency of the bullets and accuracy.

Kaido bullets-e-mail--[email protected]

VKV Products & Services is Proud To Offer To Responsible Shooters and Hunters The Following Specialty Items: Customized Projectile Molds, Customized Black Powder Rifles and Pistols, Percussion Revolvers and Related Parts & Accessories, Cutlery (Cold Steel), Historic Cold War Military Surplus Uniforms & Gear:




Custom Cast Stepped Universal Kaido Bullets:
---------------------------------------------------------



Note: Due To The Raising Prices of Material Lead and the Processing Of that potentially hazardous material and the preparation and aftercare and costs there of, I charge the prices to produce my Custom Bullets at the prices they are and Reserve the right to increase the cost at any time with out any specific special notice.

Custom Cast, 220, 240 & 255 grain in 44/45 Caliber , Stepped Round Flat Nose,(RFN Style) (VKV BG) (Big Game) "Kaido Bullet" Series Universal Stepped Bullets All the 200, 240 and 255 grain in purer Lead. Cost $25.00 per 50 Bullets. (See Shipping Rates Bellow) All Custom Universal Bullets Can be Made Custom To Individual Order From Pure Lead hardness 4 to a 50/50 Wheel Weight Mix for an Estimated hardness of 11 BHN. For Bigger successfully Hunting Bigger Animals where Penetration is needed.

140 Grain 36 Caliber: (0.377) The (VKV SMG C&B Universal 36/357-38) Caliber
Round Flat Nose, (RFN Style) VKV SMG, 36 C&B Bullets. "Kaido Bullets" for (Small & Medium Game) Cost $25.00 per 50 (See Shipping Rates Bellow) Estimated hardness 4 to 11 BHN.
The 36 caliber bullets can be cast of Pure Lead (4 BHN) or cast slightly harder than pure lead for Penetration for hunting game animals. The 36 caliber Universal Bullets are just that and work also in Metallic Cartridge Arms in 38/357 Magnum caliber as well.
These are custom items tailored for hunters with a BHN Hardness of est.; 4 to 11. Pure Lead and harder alloy mix of 50/50 Lead Wheel Weights. Thus giving Maximum Penetration on thick Skinned Big Game Animals and yet not stressing the Loading Lever. Original 19th Century Black Powder Percussion Revolver Bullets often had Tin mixed in for a slightly harder better cast and shaped bullet.

Generally all Bullet orders come with a piece of Specialty Black Powder Lube,(Bees Wax & Co Co Nut Oil) for do it your self lube. I lube (1) Bullet to show how a Lubed Bullet should look. Bees Wax is the Kind of Black Powder lubricants this it is a specialty, it is not Crisco.
----------------------------------------------------------

Prices For Custom Kaido Universal Bullet Molds Are As Follows:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 Cavity Custom 220, 240 and 255 Grain Round Flat Nose style; VKV BG (BIG Game) Universal (Kaido) Stepped Molds are $89.00 each with out shipping. S&H $13.00 (Will fit up to (2) 6 Cavity Molds with (2) sets of handles and (1) Two cavity 36 caliber Universal Bullet Mold. The Six Cavity Custom Molds, DO NOT come With Handles, Handles are available at $18.00 if wanted. Total Fee for (1) Custom 6 cavity Kaido Universal Bullet mold, with Handles and S&H is currently $120.00 USD.

NOTE: The 255 grain Molds are Sold Out with NO New Replacement available. If enough demand is there then I will do a mold run for the 255 grainer.
36 Caliber,(377) 140 grain VKV SMG 36 C&B Universal Bullet is a Kaido RFN 140 grain design. the Molds of which currently come in Two Cavity, they come with built on Handles and cost is $51.00 Plus Confirmed Shipping Handling in USA is $10.00. For a Total of $61.00

Special Notice: Return & Sales Policy:
Must Be Acknowledged & and Agreed Upon By the Buyer:

Please note items, Molds and Custom Cast Universal Bullets, are pre inspected, They are of high quality and as such sold as such with No Returns, Refunds or Exchanges.

All Prices are calculated in and paid with United States Dollar Currency.
Or Transferred via International Bank Calculations.

All Molds & Bullets have been pre inspected. I sell High End Quality Products. My Universal Bullets and Molds are unique and there are none like them. All are Pre Inspected. With No visible defects, as such the Molds & Bullets are sold as Is. They are in High Quality New Condition. As such there are No Refunds or Returns, Exchanges on Molds or Bullets. This is in accordance with the norm with Ammunition sales.

Should there be a manufacturing defect with the molds they are to be sent to LEE Precision (The manufacturer) for repair (eg. Sprue Plate Handle Replacement) which a Customer had and LEE Precision Replaced Immediately for Free. Any such replacement must be addressed to LEE Precision as I do not take back exchanges or returns. LEE Precision's Contact Telephone Number is01) (262) 673-3075. Fax#(262) 673-9273. Hours of operation: Monday through Friday 7:30am-3:45pm Central Standard Time (CST) In the USA.

LEE did a more higher quality job that they do on here standard production run molds.

As Materials And Manufacturing Costs Do At Times Increase, So Will The Costs Of My Custom Bullets and Molds, I Reserve the Right To Increase Prices At Any Time With Out Any Special Notice.

Due to the higher cost of Pure Lead and the Detailed Extensive Preparation, Processing and aftercare of Lead, Wheel Weights, etc a Potentially Dangerous material and the reality of continued lesser availability of Lead Wheel Weights, prices have increased. As a result of the increasing Costs, VKV Products Reserves The Right To Change Prices On Custom Cast Universal Bullets with out any special notice given at any Time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shipping & Handling: = (S&H)
---------------------------------------------
U.S. Post Office; Priority Shipping is used I ship both any where in the USA and World. I have European customers so shipping to Europe is no problem.

Small Box Shipping & Handling in the USA is $6.25. The Small Priority box will hold 100+ 220/240/255 Bullets. About (200) 140 grain 36 Cal bullets

Medium size Boxes S&H is $13.00 Note: Medium Size has Two Shapes of Boxes,. 1st is The Shirt Shaped Box This is for Molds. The other Medium Shaped Box is Square in Shape, it is a Shipping container for Large Custom Bullet Orders The Medium Box will hold
approximately 800 mixed 240/255 and 36 caliber Custom Bullets.
Large Priority Shipping Box S&H Cost in USA is $17.50.
All New York State Residents will pay NYS Sales Tax, sorry it is the law.

European Destinations Shipping Rates:
------------------------------------------------
The Shipping & Handling Fee Rate for one, (220/240/255) Grain Custom Mold with Handles to most European destinations is, $28.60. Each in USD.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Payment:
------------
Wal-mart Money Gram or U.S . Postal Money Order, or by International Bank Check/Money Order Only. No Personal Checks.

I avoid Pay Pal as they charge me for each transaction and I would have to pass that fee on to the customer.

Please send all, Money Grams U.S. Postal Money Orders and Intl Bank Checks Money Orders . Please address on the outer envelop to V K V Products/Services: NOTE: Leave the Name Area Blank on the actual PMO Money Gram etc.

Send To:
VKV Products & Services
254 Betsy Ross Drive
Orangeburg, N.Y.10962
U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[DD4lifeusmc]

I think the original post was about 36 cal and we've progressed to 44.
and then to sales literature for kaido.
Items to be bought / sold are supposed to be in the forsale section not the open board.

Before you blindly buy his product, do some research.
Some people have had their guns fail using the excessively heavy slugs.
Not saying it is his fault, as each must take their own responsibility for how they load their own gun and not exceed the manufacturers safety recommendations.

The metals in our guns is not as strong as those in modern cartridge guns.
While BP and the subs are relatively stable pressure wise,realize, Newtons law.
Objects at rest tend to stay at rest. Thus the heavier slug based on weight, and a larger sealing area creating a larger friction footprint is going to make it want to stay at rest, untill heavier pressures build to get it moving.

Also in order to gain the increase in weight up to 240 and 255 gr, the projectile can not be made bigger in diameter, it must be made taller.
Thus you will have to sacrifice some powder capacity so that the slug can sit lower in the chamber, and still be flush with the chamber face.
And it will likely not fit through the loading window, without modifying that area.

One last thing on a more personal note. You must mind your P's and Q's when dealing with him.
If you get argumentative with him, or ask too many questions etc.
His demeanor changes. So just beware.

[swathdiver]

We load the .36 Kaidos right on the gun (1858). The 220 was developed so it could be loaded on an unmodified gun. We load the 240s using the Tower of Power cylinder loading stand. Some minor dremeling, if one is so inclined, will enable the loading of the 240s on the gun (1858/1860).

[maillemaker]

If you get argumentative with him, or ask too many questions etc.
His demeanor changes. So just beware.

I didn't know my wife made bullet molds!

Steve

[dr1445]

i didn't have a 36 conical so i rolled a 44 under a file. from .450 to .452". if i can find a courser file it should raise it more. i will roll a few more and try to fire them next week and see how they print on paper.

[rodwhaincamo]

I've not read of Kaido's heavier bullet having any problems. Are you sure you aren't speaking of the 285 grn bullet I had made that was loaded in an ASM Walker that blew the cylinder?

[DD4lifeusmc]

Why are you knurling a 44 cal bullet, if you are wanting 36 cal?

If you measure the chambers of your 44 properly, you will find almost all of them will be .446 to .448 in diameter,
Knurling up to .452 isn't going to accomplish anything in the way of fit going down the barrel. You are just going to shave that .002 back down to .450
when you load it, anyway.
Will the knurling make it a tighter fit to the chamber? Maybe, but probably not enough to matter.

Rodwha

I didn't say it was his bullet. I just said the heavier bullets.
These guns are not designed nor proofed to with stand the heavier pressures.
If they were there would be no need for conversion cyclinders.
One could just machine out the nipple and chambers to take a cartridge.
And presumably a hotter powder.
But that is not the case.
I don't have the formula anymore for figuring pressures.
But if BP ignites and creates XXX pound of pressure to move a 140 grain round ball with XXX amount of friction fit psi holding it in place.
Then you know that the pressure has to increase in order to move a 240 gr slug with a larger seating area and thus a larger psi friction holding it in place.
I'll see if I can find that formula again.
That's the main reason I kept my 195 and 190's under 200gr,
They are still about double a round ball in impact force energy
But are not so heavy as to allow too much pressures to build.
Yes you may get away for years shooting those 220 240 255 grain slugs.
But one day the next may be one two many.

And Rod you've seen first hand what can happen, and are lucky no one was injured when the gun let go,

These replicas are not magnums, were not designed to be. No need to over stress them.
You want that kind of power and recoil, use a gun designed for that.
take your .357 or your 44 mag and load some hot black powder shells
and some pure lead bullets and shoot them out of it.
At least those guns are proof tested to withstand any reasonable BP generated pressures.

[dr1445]

i wanted to see how it works, looks like i can gain .002" which would bring me line to line with a 36 .375 conical, as my chambers are .377" with my uberti.

[rodwhaincamo]

I see now that you didn't necessarily imply Kaido. I suppose I assumed it as that is what you had been talking about. Sorry.

I don't believe conversion cylinders just to shoot heavier bullets, but to convert to shoot modern cartridges. You do know that they used very heavy conicals in paper cartridges during the Civil War, right? And the one made with Hazards Pistol Powder was found to use 4F that is equivelent to Swiss? My computer is down, but I can certainly email you the research done as he said it was OK to do so.

And in regards to he cylinder letting go we do not know why. It could have been that it wasn't loaded firmly against the powder charge. Some have said by the looks of it that it is quite possible. And there are several other possibilities, including too heavy of a projectile with large bearing surfaces, which I had created to be used in a Ruger because of the reduced charge and the fact it can handle it.

[swathdiver]

As posted before in other posts, we've shot our .36 Pietta Remington with Swiss 4fg behind Kaido conicals with no problems. Charge weight was 1/10 of bullet weight or about 14-15 grains. No difference in accuracy compared with a full charge of 3fg but sure sounded cool.

The guns can take it. In 2012 Pietta tightened the twist on their .44s to handle the conversion cylinders shooting bullets, Uberti did this in 2007 with their Remington and went to forged frames.

Then there is the ROA, you can fill that chamber with smokeless powder and not blow it up according to Bill Ruger.