marlin guide gun 45-70 loads???

[98 220 swift]

I have a marlin guide gun 18" barrel. Looking for good data and bullet weights that other people have had good luck with. Only hunting deer so don't need any knock my socks off loads. But don't want light trapdoor loads either. Probably a good midrange load.

[mehavey]

Lead, or jacketed.... ?
(...and what circumstances might require more than 405gr doing 1,200fps)

[98 220 swift]

prefer lead but also looking at jacketed loads. More velocity will give better trajectory. something more in the 1500-1700 fps. just trying to see what other people have had good luck with.

[Unclenick]

If your guide gun is ported, as my dad's copy is, then you may want to avoid lead anyway, or at least stick to gas checked bullets to avoid lead splatter through and build-up in the ports. The action will take pretty heavy loads, but it sounds like you have the GG mainly for lighter weight and better pointability than the full size 1895, and not for stopping the odd charging rhinoceros or rampaging elephant. Not to fret. We don't get many of those during deer season in the States, anyway.

On whitetails at eastern woods ranges of <100 yards, the lighter recoiling 300 grain bullets will do fine at magnum pistol velocities. It looks like your barrel length can push the Hornady 300 grain HP to about 1850-1900 fps with about 45 grains of IMR4198. It's a starting load in the Hodgdon data, and if my guess is correct that you won't be shooting past 100 yards, the low BC of the bullet should not be an issue either.

[98 220 swift]

Rifle is not ported. Shots could go a past 100 yards maybe 150. Rifle shot well with hornady leverevolution. would like to find a good lead load due to bullet cost but may use jacketed if need to. I have some 340gr 405 gr and some 430gr hard cast with gas checks.

[totaldla]

405gr jsp Remington. 43.5gr of H4198. WLR primer. Starline case. 1750fps from my guide gun. My go-to load.

[mehavey]

Swift:

Don't get yourself beat up for little added advantge.
A 405gr Lyman 457193 (the classic 45-70 bullet) doing 1,250 from the muzzle will:

- Go completely through a deer stem-to-stern and/or smash most anything in its way.
- Is literally point blank on a 5" heart-sized object out to 135 yard.

Point...
Shoot.
Original 45-70 ballistics are waaaay underated.


Check JBM ballistic calcs if uncertain.
BC = 0.307
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

[GeauxTide]

35gr of IMR 4198 in Starline Cases, CCI200, 350gr Hornady RN.

[Deja vu]

I have an SBL with the same 18.5 inch barrel. My gun seems to like the Hornady 325 grain bullets (Leverevolution) the best. I originally was loading them pretty hot but later on settled on duplicating factory velocity.

Still 325 grains at about 1800FPS is still pretty potent. Its over kill on anything in the lower 48 states.

[chiefr]

Main thing to remember with Marlin lever guns is not to exceed COL or you will be needing a screwdriver to remove the lever and manually push the bolt back.

4198 for 300s and 303i for the 405s are my choices.

[NoSecondBest]

Don't get yourself beat up for little added advantge.
A 405gr Lyman 457193 (the classic 45-70 bullet) doing 1,250 from the muzzle will:

- Go completely through a deer stem-to-stern and/or smash most anything in its way.
- Is literally point blank on a 5" heart-sized object out to 135 yard.

Point...
Shoot.
Original 45-70 ballistics are waaaay underated.


Check JBM ballistic calcs if uncertain.
BC = 0.307

He beat me to the punch. I"ve shot seven or eight deer with my 45-70s (I have several) and I don't like to get beat up without a good reason. I have yet to recover even one bullet for a deer. My longest shot possible on my lease is 148yds and this load will do all of that with ease.

[44 AMP]

But don't want light trapdoor loads either.

I'd like to point out that "trapdoor loads" are the STANDARD for the cartridge. The factory 405gr at black powder speeds (and pressures) has been the standard for the .45-70 since production was switched over to smokeless powder ammo, generations ago.

And also, for many years the old loading books had two levels of .45-70 loads, one for the Trapdoor, and the other, hotter loads for the 1886 Winchester.

Today, we have 3 levels of .45-70 loads, the last level is the hottest, and can only be used in bolt actions and strong modern single shots like the Ruger.

The Marlin, even the modern one should be grouped as a level II rifle. There are lots of loads out there for the 86 Winchester/(new) 1895 Marlin. Pick something with the bullet you are interested in, and work up to it using standard reloading techniques.

I had one of the full size Marlins for many years (not the guide gun), Always liked it, and it was only about an inch or so longer than a .30-30. I finally sold it, excess to my needs, miss it once in a while though.

The standard 405gr factory load will shoot through a deer, what more do you need?

[JohnKSa]

Only hunting deer so don't need any knock my socks off loads. But don't want light trapdoor loads either.

Those "light trapdoor loads" are good enough to kill a couple of hogs with one shot. A fellow I know accidentally killed a second hog when the "light trapdoor load" he was shooting out of his .45-70 passed through the hog he was aiming at and killed the one behind it. I don't recall him saying that he recovered the bullet so it likely passed all the way through that one too...

It's worth pointing out that the "light trapdoor loads" duplicate the original blackpowder performance of the .45-70. Performance that was considered sufficient for killing American Bison, an animal far larger than any deer.

[Clark]

About 10 years ago Joe at realguns wanted to develop loads for his 45/70 guide gun, so he put a strain gauge on his Ruger #1 45/70 and worked up to what he thought the Guide gun could take.
More than 12 years ago I bought a 45/70 handi rifle for $100.
I wondered what load for it would be appropriate from the Speer load book; 1) trapdoor, 2) guide gun 3) Ruger #1.
I got my father, chief engineer of gun design over 150 engineers and draftsmen, holder of 36 patents, and pound on table while yelling guy, to help me. I got another guy, a mechanical engineering professor to help explain to me how to calculate the 45/70 handi rifle strength. They taught me about a pin in double shear, Lame's thick wall hoop stress, section modulus calculation on the breech face in bending, etc. I calculated it was more than twice the pressure that would be needed to make the brass flow.
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Some people did not believe this, so I verified it by working up to double the max published load for Ruger #1s using Unique powder. I did that with my hand palm on the rifle butt, allowing recoil movement of a couple feet.
Then I fired one round of trapdoor load with the rifle at my shoulder. 40 gr 4895, 405 gr bullet.
That kicked me so hard, I did not shoot that rifle again for more than a year.
Later the people who make handi rifles made public what loads the handi rifle is rated for: guide gun levels.

What does it all mean?
Try the trapdoor loads first. They may be all the power you need.

[zeke]

1-A decent recoil pad on a guide gun makes a HUGE difference.

Chronoed velocities Under a Rem 300 jacketed from a guide gun. Win brass, fed 210 primer. yr 2005, 2006

46.0 grains imr-4198 gave about 1870 fps, very good accuracy
45.0 grains imr-4198 gave 1780 fps, ex accuracy

48.0 grains h-4198 gave about 1850 fps and excellent accuracy

57.0 grains h-3222, 1940 fps, decent accuracy

win 300 gn factory load 1780 fps

starline brass is noticeably heavier than win brass and would advise using slightly reduced charges , to get same velocities. The last time I looked at hodgens listed charges, they appeared a bit "steep", and wouldn't subject myself or guide gun to their max listed h-4198 charges.

The guide gun was surprisingly accurate.

[m&p45acp10+1]

For a just for fun load I load up a 405 grain home cast hollow base with a load of Trail Boss. My brother used one of those loads in a TC single shot to kill a 350 pound sow a moth ago. The bullet passed right through. The hog made it less than 30 feet before she dropped. He said the range was about 40 yards or so.

For a good white tail load go with an expanding jacketed bullet like the Rem Core Lokt, or one of the Hornady bullets. (Hope you saved the Hornady brass. It is shorter than the rest are to keep the COL to a length that will feed in a lever action. The standard trap door safe load will kill any deer you hit in a vital area at distances far greater than you will be able to shoot from even out of the 18 inch barrel.

[98 220 swift]

it appears most everyone is using light jacketed bullets for their guide guns? I may have to pick some up.

[flashhole]

I'm not a big Hornady fan but their 350 grain Round Nose or Flat Nose bullets work really well in my Guide Gun. A few years back I bought 1500 of them from Midway on a close out. I have about 400 left. There are several powders that work but the powder I like best with this bullet is H4895. My loads chrono 1960 fps on average and are very accurate.

I also cast my own bullets using a 340 grain mold from Lee. Those I shoot with low-end Varget charges. My 16 year old daughter uses this as her deer load.

[Deja vu]

I do shoot my own cast bullets (300 Grain HP and a 500 Grain flat point). but my gun seems to favor the jacketed bullets.

My Marlin Cowboy likes cast bullets better. It shoots the big 500 grain pills very accurately. 500 grains at about 1300 FPS is pretty potent.

[44 AMP]

I would like to point out that all jacketed bullets are not equal. If you are going to be pushing them to speeds of 1600fps+ the Hornady 350gr RN is an excellent choice. It will perform well even at much faster speeds (I have run them at 2200fps)

The Speer 400gr is a good bullet, BUT it is designed to expand at blackpowder speed, and at speeds above 1600fps (approx.) they begin to come apart too soon. At 1800 expect jacket and core separation, and at 2100fps (.458 Win) they act like varmint bullets, literally being explosive.

You MUST correctly match the bullet design to the intended speed for good performance.
Of course, if you stick with hard cast, and don't worry about expansion you don't need anyway, things are much simpler.