The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 28, 2014, 09:51 PM   #1
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
roll crimping too much or not enough?

This is a 38 special
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20141228_190738_kindlephoto-6312120.jpg (143.0 KB, 263 views)

Last edited by josh29j; December 28, 2014 at 09:58 PM.
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 09:59 PM   #2
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
Left to right...factory...heavy..light..and very light..New to reloading any help is welcome
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:04 PM   #3
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
Better quality
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _20141228_210104.JPG (160.2 KB, 759 views)
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:19 PM   #4
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 5,067
Too much crimp. You should to try to make them look more like the commercial factory crimp (roll crimp). One nice thing about revolvers with brass cases is that any crimp no matter how much will come out when the round is fired and the walls will be straight again.

Jim
Jim243 is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:25 PM   #5
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
On the second picture are they both to much?
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:28 PM   #6
Kevin Rohrer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2010
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 1,050
re: Second Pic

The first round looks good; the second looks too heavy.
__________________
Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion.

Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer
Kevin Rohrer is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:31 PM   #7
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
Okay good the first ones is actually loaded the right one is a dumpy round..I noticed when I crimped them that the oal shorten up by about .003 on all of them. Should I worry about that?
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:44 PM   #8
Griff, SASS93
Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 22
What kind of die (tool) are you using? Are you rolling that after the bullet is seated... if so, then the one on the left is ok... the one on the right has a lip that might catch on the chamber mouth.


I use mostly RCBS dies... here's a .45 Colt with what I consider a good crimp:

Some of the detail might be lost, but the sides of the case are "parallel", no bulge, with the case mouth just rolled into the crimp groove and there's no "edge" to catch against the chamber mouth.
Griff, SASS93 is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:49 PM   #9
Clark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: WA, the ever blue state
Posts: 4,678
?I am no expert on this, but don't we roll crimp to?:
1) Get slow ball powder to burn
2) Keep bullet from pulling out in a revolver under heavy recoil

Of which the 38 Special probably has neither.
Clark is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:53 PM   #10
JT-AR-MG42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Posts: 558
In the last photo, that crimp on the right looks too heavy to me.
First photo is too blurred.

'Course amount of crimp should vary depending on several factors.

Bullet weight
Powder charge/burn rate
Type of firearm

Do remember though...
A proper fitting mouth expander diameter is more important to consistent ignition than crimp.

Make up an empty dummy using an unprimed case and just seat the bullet - no crimp.
Try pushing the bullet into the case on the edge of the table or some other hard surface.
Push hard.
If you are able to shove the bullet into that case without a hammer, that means you need to reduce the diameter of the expander plug.

I put just enough crimp to hold the bullet securely for it's intended use.
I gently taper crimp most light revolver loads. It is all that is really needed.

Nice, even roll crimp (about 1/2 of what I see you put on the one case) when shooting revolvers with heavy bullet/slow burning magnum loads.

Heavier taper crimp on Desert Eagle loads and high performance auto pistol loads.

I am not a fan of the Lee factory crimp die, but many others are.
I use Redding profile roll crimp dies -best- and Lyman and RCBS taper crimp dies for the most part.

The extra die to crimp as a separate operation from seating is a worthwhile investment in the quality and performance of your re-loads.

JT
JT-AR-MG42 is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 10:53 PM   #11
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
I'm using rcbs dies..I had a very light if any crimp at first when seating the bullets..then once I looked at factory I went back and added a little more crimp.the left bullets is. Loaded the right is a dumby round that I put more crimp on basically just to see thoughts I thought it was to much also
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 11:10 PM   #12
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
My loads look more like a chamfer than a "roll" or am I seeing things
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 11:17 PM   #13
Griff, SASS93
Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 22
Quote:
My loads look more like a chamfer than a "roll" or am I seeing things
Nope, you're not seeing things. I thought at first that you were using some kind of separate tool to crimp after the bullet was seated by rolling it around the edge.

Is your .38Spl die a taper crimp or roll crimp version. I believe that RCBS makes both in .38/.357. A "too heavy" roll crimp usually bulges the edge of the case at the mouth... sometimes so much so, that it'll be hard to chamber.
Griff, SASS93 is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 11:22 PM   #14
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
I ordered the roll crimp die set
josh29j is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 11:22 PM   #15
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
There is never any reason to crimp a round any more than that which is applied by the factory. Look at a factory round, crimp only as much as they have.
dahermit is offline  
Old December 28, 2014, 11:29 PM   #16
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
In my second picture the first load..is that a good crimp..or can I go even less and maybe go that much for .357
josh29j is offline  
Old December 29, 2014, 12:05 AM   #17
IllinoisCoyoteHunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2008
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 1,527
If you are shooting target 38 spl loads just use a taper crimp.
__________________
~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~

~NRA LIFE MEMBER~
~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~
IllinoisCoyoteHunter is offline  
Old December 29, 2014, 12:07 AM   #18
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
Well I plan in doing .357 mags so I want to get a good practice down
josh29j is offline  
Old December 29, 2014, 06:32 PM   #19
jim8115
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 23, 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 229
crimp

"There is never any reason to crimp a round any more than that which is applied by the factory. Look at a factory round, crimp only as much as they have. "

Not always true. With 38's , if you are having to use a slower powder ( unique , universal , etc ) for target velocity loads ( 700-800 FPS) , a firm crimp will help keep the ES down, and improve accuracy.
jim8115 is offline  
Old December 29, 2014, 07:32 PM   #20
Gster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2012
Location: N.central Pa.
Posts: 302
These were my first attempt at a roll crimp when I started reloading for revolver. I just tried to duplicate a factory rnd.

__________________
Gun control means: Being able to hit what you are shooting at.
Gster is offline  
Old December 29, 2014, 08:50 PM   #21
josh29j
Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Posts: 63
I shoot the .38s today at the range. I was using 4.7g of unique..and I was very happy with the results at 25 yards
josh29j is offline  
Old December 30, 2014, 02:32 AM   #22
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
and I was very happy with the results at 25 yards
Congratulations, and welcome to the world of reloading.

These are photos of a very light roll crimp.




It is hard to get the lighting just right.



Now it's time for you to load up some more.

Again welcome and stay safe and shoot straight.
Happy Holidays to you and yours.
Jim
Jim243 is offline  
Old December 30, 2014, 09:40 AM   #23
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 6,501
"There is never any reason to crimp a round any more than that which is applied by the factory. Look at a factory round, crimp only as much as they have. "

Quote:
Not always true. With 38's , if you are having to use a slower powder ( unique , universal , etc ) for target velocity loads ( 700-800 FPS) , a firm crimp will help keep the ES down, and improve accuracy.
How much crimp do the commercial ammo companies put on "target velocity loads"? As I stated, there is no reason to crimp a round any more then the factory loads are.
What is an "ES"?
dahermit is offline  
Old December 30, 2014, 10:30 AM   #24
jim8115
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 23, 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 229
"How much crimp do the commercial ammo companies put on "target velocity loads"? As I stated, there is no reason to crimp a round any more then the factory loads are.
What is an "ES"? "

The factory can use a powder optimized for the application. We dont always have that option, especially recently. If you are using a fast powder like bullseye, your statement may be true, but if you are forced to use a slower powder, not so. ES is extreme spread, velocity difference of highest and lowest shot in a string
jim8115 is offline  
Old December 30, 2014, 10:33 AM   #25
Griff, SASS93
Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Posts: 22
Quote:
What is an "ES"?
Extreme Spread: velocity variance from the slowest round to the fastest in a given sample. ES's with single digits are good, as they go up, not so much.
Griff, SASS93 is offline  
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2025 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.06683 seconds with 8 queries