45 acp seating depth ?

rebs · October 25, 2014, 09:54 AM

I have some 200 gr tc and 230 gr tc bullets. If I seat them both to the same seating oal, do I need to adjust the amount of powder because the 230 gr seats deeper and therefor has less case capacity ? Or can thy both be loaded with the same amount of powder ?

Sevens · October 25, 2014, 10:57 AM

Can't simply flip a hard & fast rule for this especially when we consider the variables.

I would look for info on a recommended COAL from the bullet maker. Failing that, I'd make dummy rounds & hand feed some. And the powder charge - I'd work up conventionally.

FWIW, I run Berry's 200gr flat point with a 1.200" COAL to great effect.

rebs · October 25, 2014, 11:25 AM

I bought some 200 and 230 gr bullets and the manufacturer recommends loading them both to 1.200. If they are both loaded to 1.200 the case with the 230 bullet which seats further into the case will have a smaller case capacity, right ? I am talking about loading them both with 4.0 of bullseye powder.

jag2 · October 25, 2014, 11:51 AM

That's why they are called recommendations. It is often pointed out that different sources will show different loads for the same bullet/powder combo. I usually load 4.8 to 5.0 of Bullseye at 1.25 with a 230 grn round nose. Feeds well in all my 45s. Your load of 4.0 is way on the light side so I doubt any minor change will make any difference, certainly wouldn't put you in dangerous territory. In fact, I would probably be more concerned about the pistol not cycling properly. If I were you I'd try some a little warmer, that light a load might even affect accuracy and is below the suggested starting load. Try some at 4.5 and see how they do. If you are loading that light in order to reduce the recoil that's not always a good idea. It is after all a 45.

mikld · October 25, 2014, 01:43 PM

Personally, I think the "case capacity/OAL/pressure" worries are a bit of overthinking. Yep, in theory, reduced case capacity can increase pressures, but in real life, how much reduction will raise the pressure how much? If a bullet gets jammed down into the case 1/4" during feeding in a 45 ACP, there may be an over pressure problem. Yep, learning all we can about reloading is fun and part of the hobby, but for a new reloader, stick with reloading manual data, especially starting loads and specific bullet OAL and there will be no problems. As you gather experience and researching along the way, you'll find answers to all your queries...

Sevens · October 25, 2014, 02:11 PM

Quote:

If they are both loaded to 1.200 the case with the 230 bullet which seats further into the case will have a smaller case capacity, right ? I am talking about loading them both with 4.0 of bullseye powder.

As I don't have published Bullseye load data in front of me, I won't comment on how that load looks. But I am trying to say that the general idea of simply "winging" the powder charge based on the very inexact science of one bullet's reduced case capacity off-setting the lesser weight of the projectile is just a really bad idea.

Look at the published loads and start 10% under max every time you try something new. You can take shortcuts in this time-tested procedure, if "short cut" ammo is what you want and taking short cuts is the way you wish to do it, but if you're looking for approval with that kind of method... I can't help.

Quote:

Personally, I think the "case capacity/OAL/pressure" worries are a bit of overthinking. Yep, in theory, reduced case capacity can increase pressures, but in real life, how much reduction will raise the pressure how much? If a bullet gets jammed down into the case 1/4" during feeding in a 45 ACP, there may be an over pressure problem.

I'd suggest that it depends an awful lot on the what, where and how. In a midrange .45 load that we know is a ~20k PSI max round? Especially if you are building loads right on the redline already? Maybe not so much. In a 9mm with a tiny case capacity right from the start and a 35k PSI max cartridge? Or worse, a .40 S&W running the same pressure with almost no room for error, often run in handguns that were designed from the ground up to run 9mm and merely adapted to chamber the larger .40 S&W?

We can all agree that .40 S&W shows more instances of KB's than everything else, and we've all seen how .40 S&W was the first cartridge to come will it's own personalized warnings in nearly every published load source.

polyphemus · October 25, 2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

I am talking about loading them both with 4.0 of bullseye powder.

You are writing about truncated nose bullets,right?
I would simply measure one and then compare to a standard FMJ RN,then load a round nose bullet to 1.260" which is the published COL and a truncated one.
Then measure the difference in COL,seating die profile and truncation height
being the variables.Then adjust as necessary.
By the way 4.0 gn seems to be 20% below published starting load for 230 gn bullets.

Crankgrinder · October 25, 2014, 03:18 PM

If you're shooting lee Tc. Bullets and seat to length that you describe then your bullet may hit the rifling upon chambering, causing failure to go into battery. I had to use my barrel as a col gauge and was forced to disregard published coal much of the time (it was either that or have the chamber milled deeper). Got into this here on top once before, but with a different bullet style. The thread should be in the search archive, and contains a link to helpful illustrations.

T. O'Heir · October 25, 2014, 03:44 PM

"...both be loaded with the same amount of powder?..." No. You load for the bullet weight. OAL will be different too.
A TC uses the same OAL by weight. All of 'em must fit the mag anyway.
Alliant's site give MAX loads and 4.0 is below minimum for any bullet. 4.5 of Bullseye works well for a cast 230.

rebs · October 26, 2014, 12:44 AM

Thank you for all the replies. I started reloading in the early 70's for about 7 years, then got out of it as I took s job as an over the road trucker. Now I am getting back into it. 4.2 of bullseye with a 200 gr lswc was my accuracy load back then for my Gold Cup. Now I am loading for a different 45 acp and the need is to load shorter oal for the gun to feed right. That is the reason I started at 4.0 grns of bullseye powder. My Lyman loading manual gives cast and jacketed bullet load by weight but does not mention bullet shapes. This is where the need to load to unspecified oal comes into play to get the tc style bullet to feed reliably..

October 25, 2014, 09:54 AM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	45 acp seating depth ? I have some 200 gr tc and 230 gr tc bullets. If I seat them both to the same seating oal, do I need to adjust the amount of powder because the 230 gr seats deeper and therefor has less case capacity ? Or can thy both be loaded with the same amount of powder ?

October 25, 2014, 10:57 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	Can't simply flip a hard & fast rule for this especially when we consider the variables. I would look for info on a recommended COAL from the bullet maker. Failing that, I'd make dummy rounds & hand feed some. And the powder charge - I'd work up conventionally. FWIW, I run Berry's 200gr flat point with a 1.200" COAL to great effect. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

October 25, 2014, 11:25 AM	#3
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I bought some 200 and 230 gr bullets and the manufacturer recommends loading them both to 1.200. If they are both loaded to 1.200 the case with the 230 bullet which seats further into the case will have a smaller case capacity, right ? I am talking about loading them both with 4.0 of bullseye powder.

October 25, 2014, 11:51 AM	#4
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 779	That's why they are called recommendations. It is often pointed out that different sources will show different loads for the same bullet/powder combo. I usually load 4.8 to 5.0 of Bullseye at 1.25 with a 230 grn round nose. Feeds well in all my 45s. Your load of 4.0 is way on the light side so I doubt any minor change will make any difference, certainly wouldn't put you in dangerous territory. In fact, I would probably be more concerned about the pistol not cycling properly. If I were you I'd try some a little warmer, that light a load might even affect accuracy and is below the suggested starting load. Try some at 4.5 and see how they do. If you are loading that light in order to reduce the recoil that's not always a good idea. It is after all a 45.

October 25, 2014, 01:43 PM	#5
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Personally, I think the "case capacity/OAL/pressure" worries are a bit of overthinking. Yep, in theory, reduced case capacity can increase pressures, but in real life, how much reduction will raise the pressure how much? If a bullet gets jammed down into the case 1/4" during feeding in a 45 ACP, there may be an over pressure problem. Yep, learning all we can about reloading is fun and part of the hobby, but for a new reloader, stick with reloading manual data, especially starting loads and specific bullet OAL and there will be no problems. As you gather experience and researching along the way, you'll find answers to all your queries...

October 25, 2014, 03:18 PM	#8
Crankgrinder Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 917	If you're shooting lee Tc. Bullets and seat to length that you describe then your bullet may hit the rifling upon chambering, causing failure to go into battery. I had to use my barrel as a col gauge and was forced to disregard published coal much of the time (it was either that or have the chamber milled deeper). Got into this here on top once before, but with a different bullet style. The thread should be in the search archive, and contains a link to helpful illustrations.

October 25, 2014, 03:44 PM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...both be loaded with the same amount of powder?..." No. You load for the bullet weight. OAL will be different too. A TC uses the same OAL by weight. All of 'em must fit the mag anyway. Alliant's site give MAX loads and 4.0 is below minimum for any bullet. 4.5 of Bullseye works well for a cast 230.

October 26, 2014, 12:44 AM	#10
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thank you for all the replies. I started reloading in the early 70's for about 7 years, then got out of it as I took s job as an over the road trucker. Now I am getting back into it. 4.2 of bullseye with a 200 gr lswc was my accuracy load back then for my Gold Cup. Now I am loading for a different 45 acp and the need is to load shorter oal for the gun to feed right. That is the reason I started at 4.0 grns of bullseye powder. My Lyman loading manual gives cast and jacketed bullet load by weight but does not mention bullet shapes. This is where the need to load to unspecified oal comes into play to get the tc style bullet to feed reliably..