Good entry into black powder?

Kimio · September 26, 2014, 10:25 AM

As I get into the history of firearms and learn more about them, the more fascinated I've become with the old black powder muskets and rifles of old.

I'm curious about what someone would need to be conciencious of if they were to decide to try and get into shooting such firearms.

What companies would I like to look at and so on. Uberti is a big name that I've seen tossed around, and they make some lovely firearms. I think Taylor co. Is another one, and there are a few more that slip my mind right now.

Beagle333 · September 26, 2014, 01:24 PM

Uberti is a maker.
Taylors is an importer.

What kind of firearm are you looking for, specifically..... muskets, pistols, revolvers, Hawken and Kentucky style rifles, black powder cartridge rifles, flinters?

A few ideas of what you want will help folks with their recommendations. There are a lot to choose from.

Pahoo · September 26, 2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

I'm curious about what someone would need to be conciencious of if they were to decide to try and get into shooting such firearms.

Not entirely sure what you mean but suspect that you are referring to what some call, Traditionals. ....

The spectrum runs long and in my book, runs from "Flinters-Sidelocks" to In-line with 209 primer ignition. There is some cross-overs but for the most part, it's not hard to find something that is; "In-The Spirit". ....

There are still many used SideLocks available and for new, might I suggest the Lyman Great Plaines or Great Plaines Hunter. Even their Trade Rifle of Deer-Stalker would be fine. .....

Good luck and;
Be Safe !!!

Kimio · September 26, 2014, 05:27 PM

I really like the old Civil war rifles, particularly the Springfield 1861 was an interesting piece, however, I also really find the "traditional" flint lock rifles to be fascinating as well.

So I guess it's primarily rifles and muskets that I'm interested in, though the old black powder pistols were very cool too.

**4V50 Gary** · September 26, 2014, 07:37 PM

Suggest you attend a black powder match or rendezvous. Talk to those folks. If it's a shooting event, some guys will probably be more than happy to let you try theirs. It'll help you to decide what to get.

BTW, I find used stuff is cheaper than new stuff. You might find a gonne you like.

maillemaker · September 29, 2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:

As I get into the history of firearms and learn more about them, the more fascinated I've become with the old black powder muskets and rifles of old.

"...of old."

It just depends on how "old" you want to go. Black powder made the scene in the 13th century or so.

You can shoot medieval "handgonnes", match locks, wheel locks, flint locks, percussion muzzle loaders and even black powder cartridge arms, depending on what time period meets your definition of "old".

So the first thing you will have to decide is what era you are interested in. Medieval times? Revolutionary War? American Civil War? "The Old West"?

Steve

Ifishsum · September 30, 2014, 10:37 PM

Thompson-Center made a good quality Hawken style rifle - not necessarily historically accurate but very well built with a newer style coil mainspring and good adjustable sights. Watch local message board classifieds if you have them - I picked up my first .50 cal T/C for a very good price, and just last week I found another one in .54 for a similar deal. Both had spotlessly clean bores - If buying used, bring or borrow a bore light if possible, or at the very least run a patch down the bore to check for rust. You do not want a used BP rifle with a rusty or pitted bore; once rust starts it will always have a tendency to rust further. I bought another Traditions Hawken .50 cal sight unseen for $75, fully knowing that it had some bore corrosion. It actually shot well but fouled very quickly and was a real chore to get clean again. The mainspring also broke after a couple of months (it was rusted as well). I got lucky and picked up a NOS barrel on Ebay for another $90 or so but between that and replacing the mainspring I have more invested in that gun than either of the T/Cs - and it's still not as nice of a rifle as either of those.

Anyway, I think a .50 cal Hawken style percussion sidelock is a good way to break into the hobby. They are pretty simple to shoot and clean, also easiest to find shooting supplies as it's the most common caliber. If the sport grows on you as it did for me, you will probably want to try other styles or calibers, maybe even a flinter. But starting there might result in some initial frustration IMO.

mehavey · September 30, 2014, 10:56 PM

In terms of reliability/simplicity, the `61 Springfield, Zouaves, and Enfield rifled muskets are exceptional. Lyman Old Style Minnie, 60gr/2Fg, and shoot.
My First recommendation for entry (and then keeping forever)

My Second in sequence would be a Lyman Great Plains percussion (50 or 54cal). That will introduce you to the never-ending combination game of ball diameters, twist rates, powder granularity/amounts, patch materials/thicknesses, and lube types/amounts.

Definitely THIRD are the flintlocks -- not because they aren't the funnest thing since sliced bread, but because they combine EVERYthing above -- and ADD the new (and artful) variable of primitive ignition, flint types/sizes/mounting materials and frizzen geometries/surface hardness.

Stay w/ real black powder.
I say again....
Stay w/ real black powder.

Model12Win · October 1, 2014, 02:25 AM

A Lyman Great Plains in .50 or .54 should do you nicely, you can find everything you need to shoot it at Cabelas or even some Wal Marts. Excellent value for the money, usable for everything from plinking to Moose hunting (at least in .54), with a historic Hawken rifle style look.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · October 1, 2014, 07:49 AM

I have at my pleasure more than one T/C traditional too use. If I were starting out again in this hobby. I would rather have one custom built traditional rifle built to my measurements and needs verses any generic one size fits all store bought. I guess as one gets older they do appreciate the finer things. Don't we.

Kimio · October 1, 2014, 01:06 PM

Thank you for all the replies, it's been enlightening. As for used rifles, what would you say an Springfield 1861 would run that's in good condition (replica/reproduction of course)

mehavey · October 1, 2014, 03:47 PM

New Pedersoli 61's run $950-ish
Used (Lowest) about half that.

You get what you pay for though.
So figure 700's.

Kimio · October 1, 2014, 10:13 PM

I'm more than willing to shell out a few extra $$$ for a solid rifle that is in good condition. I'm a firm believer of buying it once and never have to buy it again if you can help it.

September 26, 2014, 10:25 AM	#1
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	Good entry into black powder? As I get into the history of firearms and learn more about them, the more fascinated I've become with the old black powder muskets and rifles of old. I'm curious about what someone would need to be conciencious of if they were to decide to try and get into shooting such firearms. What companies would I like to look at and so on. Uberti is a big name that I've seen tossed around, and they make some lovely firearms. I think Taylor co. Is another one, and there are a few more that slip my mind right now.

September 26, 2014, 01:24 PM	#2
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Uberti is a maker. Taylors is an importer. What kind of firearm are you looking for, specifically..... muskets, pistols, revolvers, Hawken and Kentucky style rifles, black powder cartridge rifles, flinters? A few ideas of what you want will help folks with their recommendations. There are a lot to choose from. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

September 26, 2014, 07:37 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,294	Suggest you attend a black powder match or rendezvous. Talk to those folks. If it's a shooting event, some guys will probably be more than happy to let you try theirs. It'll help you to decide what to get. BTW, I find used stuff is cheaper than new stuff. You might find a gonne you like. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 30, 2014, 10:37 PM	#7
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,035	Thompson-Center made a good quality Hawken style rifle - not necessarily historically accurate but very well built with a newer style coil mainspring and good adjustable sights. Watch local message board classifieds if you have them - I picked up my first .50 cal T/C for a very good price, and just last week I found another one in .54 for a similar deal. Both had spotlessly clean bores - If buying used, bring or borrow a bore light if possible, or at the very least run a patch down the bore to check for rust. You do not want a used BP rifle with a rusty or pitted bore; once rust starts it will always have a tendency to rust further. I bought another Traditions Hawken .50 cal sight unseen for $75, fully knowing that it had some bore corrosion. It actually shot well but fouled very quickly and was a real chore to get clean again. The mainspring also broke after a couple of months (it was rusted as well). I got lucky and picked up a NOS barrel on Ebay for another $90 or so but between that and replacing the mainspring I have more invested in that gun than either of the T/Cs - and it's still not as nice of a rifle as either of those. Anyway, I think a .50 cal Hawken style percussion sidelock is a good way to break into the hobby. They are pretty simple to shoot and clean, also easiest to find shooting supplies as it's the most common caliber. If the sport grows on you as it did for me, you will probably want to try other styles or calibers, maybe even a flinter. But starting there might result in some initial frustration IMO. Last edited by Ifishsum; September 30, 2014 at 10:43 PM.

September 26, 2014, 05:27 PM	#4
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	I really like the old Civil war rifles, particularly the Springfield 1861 was an interesting piece, however, I also really find the "traditional" flint lock rifles to be fascinating as well. So I guess it's primarily rifles and muskets that I'm interested in, though the old black powder pistols were very cool too.

September 30, 2014, 10:56 PM	#8
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,207	In terms of reliability/simplicity, the `61 Springfield, Zouaves, and Enfield rifled muskets are exceptional. Lyman Old Style Minnie, 60gr/2Fg, and shoot. My First recommendation for entry (and then keeping forever) My Second in sequence would be a Lyman Great Plains percussion (50 or 54cal). That will introduce you to the never-ending combination game of ball diameters, twist rates, powder granularity/amounts, patch materials/thicknesses, and lube types/amounts. Definitely THIRD are the flintlocks -- not because they aren't the funnest thing since sliced bread, but because they combine EVERYthing above -- and ADD the new (and artful) variable of primitive ignition, flint types/sizes/mounting materials and frizzen geometries/surface hardness. Stay w/ real black powder. I say again.... Stay w/ real black powder.

October 1, 2014, 02:25 AM	#9
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	A Lyman Great Plains in .50 or .54 should do you nicely, you can find everything you need to shoot it at Cabelas or even some Wal Marts. Excellent value for the money, usable for everything from plinking to Moose hunting (at least in .54), with a historic Hawken rifle style look.

October 1, 2014, 07:49 AM	#10
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	I have at my pleasure more than one T/C traditional too use. If I were starting out again in this hobby. I would rather have one custom built traditional rifle built to my measurements and needs verses any generic one size fits all store bought. I guess as one gets older they do appreciate the finer things. Don't we.

October 1, 2014, 01:06 PM	#11
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	Thank you for all the replies, it's been enlightening. As for used rifles, what would you say an Springfield 1861 would run that's in good condition (replica/reproduction of course)

October 1, 2014, 03:47 PM	#12
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,207	New Pedersoli 61's run $950-ish Used (Lowest) about half that. You get what you pay for though. So figure 700's.

October 1, 2014, 10:13 PM	#13
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	I'm more than willing to shell out a few extra $$$ for a solid rifle that is in good condition. I'm a firm believer of buying it once and never have to buy it again if you can help it.