Anneal before or after re-sizing?

[DarthNul]

I've been piling up a bunch of twice-fired 223 cases as my high-power league progresses through the season. And now I have an M-1 Garand on order from the CMP. I anticipate having a few thousand cases that would benefit from annealing sometime this winter.

I've been reading what I can find on the process, and weeding out a lot of the "common knowledge" that's dead wrong out on the Interwebz.

My plan is to acquire a machine, possibly the Giraud Tool product. I'll set it up with the color changing/melting lacquer on test cases, and then start batch processing.

One thing that I haven't seen at all is advice on whether to anneal before or after full-length re-sizing. Does it matter either way, or is just a matter of doing it the same way every time?

And what about fire-formed cases from bolt guns? Unlike the semi-automatic rifles, I'm only (collet) re-sizing the necks on those cases.

[MEATSAW]

I always anneal cases after sizing but before loading. Every rifle case. Every time. As long as your consistent that's what matters. If you are looking to "reset" the brass because it is work hardened you should anneal before sizing.

My .02. I'm not a pro.

[jepp2]

I have always annealed before sizing. My reasons why:

- for full length sizing and expanding, I want to minimize neck splits from another work cycle on the hardened brass neck.

- for collet die sizing I get a more consistent neck reduction by sizing the annealed neck. I have experienced some issues trying to collet size necks that are work hardened (necks wouldn't reduce in diameter enough for good neck tension)

[mannyCA]

I usually anneal before resizing, figure if they're going to split it will happen during the sizing process. Of course they also can split during firing, so its 50/50.

[F. Guffey]

Necking up and case forming: Hindsight or foresight, anneal down to a point below the new shoulder, that would lead me to believe annealing comes first. Then there are times I neck 280 Remington cases up to 338/06 and 35 Whelen. Necking up an annealed case is easier on equipment than work hardened cases,

F. Guffey

[Lemmon]

I once had a number pieces of Norma 243 Winchester brass that I loved. I found after many reloading that were cracking. I annealed the cases and then trimmed them. No more cracks.

Lemmon from rural South Carolina..... Happily retired...

[hammie]

Not intending to hi-jack the conservation, but this thread really begs the question:

How often should you anneal case necks and shoulders?

I usually wait until I see neck cracks, but perhaps that's like waiting to change your engine oil until after the bearings and piston rings are ruined.

[SWThomas]

Before.

[MEATSAW]

How often should you anneal case necks and shoulders?

Should? Not sure. I do it every time as part of a process where I do the same steps every time. Annealing is a part of that for me. Certainly you can go 3-4 loadings and be fine, but I just stick to what I do and things turn out quite well.

If someone can tell me logically that it is bad or wrong I would be more than happy to change.

[4runnerman]

I do it every 4th load. Saves brass and is very easy to do.

[chiefr]

Always before, especially when case forming.

[T. O'Heir]

Before resizing. And you do not need to anneal every time or every 3 or 4 times. It's not and never has been part of the regular reloading process.
You only anneal when you get one cracked case mouth, neck or shoulder. Pitch that one and anneal the rest using a regular propane torch and a pan of tap water.
Wouldn't even think of waiting 6 to 8 weeks for some expensive, cobbled together, machine that has no temperature control.
"..uniform case neck tension and prevent work hardening..." Annealing does neither of these. Doesn't save brass either. It does extend case life though.

[hammie]

Thanks for the data points. I always learn something here.

Hammon

[Jim243]

." Annealing does neither of these. Doesn't save brass either. It does extend case life though.

Ok, I understand the first part, but "It doesn't save brass??" Or do you mean it can't save a case that is too shot to fix, but will work on good cases??"

Jim

[Metal god]

If someone can tell me logically that it is bad or wrong I would be more than happy to change.

I have found that when it comes to firearms and reloading . Logic is not always what is right . It's the science that makes it right . I think the question is less is it wrong to anneal every time but rather is it necessary to anneal every time ? I think the answer to both of those is no . We all have are things we do that may or may not be necessary but we do them any way . There are guys here that I trust that say your charge weight can have a 3 tenths swing with ZERO effect on accuracy . Do I weigh my charges that sloppy ? Heck no why should I ? It takes 1 second more to get it perfect .

I found the collet die parts of this thread interesting . I just bought and broke a collet die because I was not getting enough bullet hold . I was using once fired brass so the work hardening thing was not the issue for me , at least I don't thing it was but when I get a new cap I'll anneal some cases and see if that gives me more bullet hold .

To the OP . This thread http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...e+on+annealing I believe is a good read . It's long but that's because we all went back and forth weeding out the truth . I ended up doing some test and posting the results with pics . The thread was most about what temp you want the neck and sholders to get to and how to do that with the most consistency at the lowest cost .

[RC20]

Not intending to hi-jack the conservation, but this thread really begs the question:

How often should you anneal case necks and shoulders?

I usually wait until I see neck cracks, but perhaps that's like waiting to change your engine oil until after the bearings and piston rings are ruined.

I think part of the discussion and fine.

This is my take:

If you wait until one splits the others have been pushed close to split.

You reset but they don't last as long.

Some probably has to do with the caliber and some the chamber and some how hot the loads are.

I would think every 5-10 reload cycles but some setups might need sooner.

Pick what seems right and if no issues you can hold, if they start to split again then sooner.

I am doing low to mid range 30-06 and I think 8 is probably ok, but in the early parts of this (have not even got my annealing strategy decided) so that’s my current guess.

I may go with 5 as easier to remember.

[44 AMP]

Annealing "resets" the work hardening of metal. There are lots of variables, but the main ones are the specific make up of the brass alloy, and how much it gets worked (firing and resizing).

Some probably has to do with the caliber and some the chamber and some how hot the loads are.

The relationship between the chamber and sizing die, and the load levels being fired makes a large difference in case life. Annealing ought to be done before sizing, simply because if the cases are close to their last sizing before cracking, annealing then sizing may save more of them.

You can wait until you get a case crack, then anneal, that will give you a baseline for that batch of brass and load. If you are losing cases at 8 loadings, anneal at 5, and see how many cycles they continue to last. (example only)