A question about the Mauser C96,,,

aarondhgraham · May 23, 2014, 09:57 AM

What does that big red 9 on the stocks designate?

Aarond

.

Wyosmith · May 23, 2014, 10:03 AM

It means is a 9mm.
Most C-96s were in 30 Mauser

Peter M. Eick · May 23, 2014, 02:41 PM

You mean like this one?

aarondhgraham · May 23, 2014, 03:15 PM

Thanks gentlemen,,,

Aarond

.

willr · May 23, 2014, 08:14 PM

9 does,of course mean 9mm. The distinction of the C96 is that it has NO pins, and the only screw is the one that holds the grips on. It is a masterpiece of design and manufacture -- as well, I think, as the first successful semi-auto pistol.

willr

SDC · May 23, 2014, 08:22 PM

hen the German Army ordered the C96 in 9mm Luger, they specified that they wanted the "red 9" grips to make sure there wouldn't be cases of people trying to load 7.62 Mauser into a 9mm Luger pistol, or vice-versa; interestingly, before WW1, Mauser also made a 9mm MAUSER version of the C96 (sort of like 9mm Largo), but it never sold very well and was dropped.

James K · May 23, 2014, 09:09 PM

Of course the 9mm Mauser version was made for export; the ammo was almost unavailable in Germany and was never military issue.

A note of caution: The "Red 9" Mauser is probably the most faked pistol in the world, with fake guns and fake grips abounding. Anyone considering buying one at any more than the cost of a 7.63mm gun should do a lot of homework before shelling out the shekels.

The grips on the gun shown appear to be genuine, but the gun has been reblued.

Jim

tipoc · May 24, 2014, 05:29 PM

Only about 135,000 of the "Red Nine" Mausers were made between 1916-1918 for a Prussian contract. Not all the guns were delivered and not all the guns of the contract had the red nine carved and painted into the grip. Sometimes it was a black nine and sometimes no nine at all (it was up to unit armorers to carve the nines so the nines are not all identical).

There are ways to tell the authentic from the fake and you can read on that some here...

http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/index.html

tipoc

James K · May 24, 2014, 09:20 PM

There seems to be a question about the statement that unit armorers put on the "red 9" and that they differ. I can't say that is not true, but in my limited experience, the markings of genuine guns are all the same and show every indication of having been put on at the factory. Several "unit armorer" grips I have seen have been obvious fakes and some were on Chinese surplus pistols converted from 7.63mm. The genuine 9mm Parabellum contract pistols have characteristics other than the grips and the caliber and those should be checked to resolve any doubt about the legitimacy of a "red 9" Mauser C-96. Most obvious is the serial number, but the rear sight ramp and elevator also should be of the 9mm type. Plus, the military markings should be German and consistent. Note that the German army did not adopt or issue the C-96 in 7.63mm. The caliber was not in the German supply system, the reason the contract was for 9mm pistols in the first place.

Another interesting point is a kind of negative. If the pistol is highly polished, with a deep rust blue like that used on the finest Lugers, either the gun is not a "red 9" or it has been refinished. Original guns have a thin bluing and are fairly rough.

Jim

Jim Watson · May 24, 2014, 09:55 PM

I don't know how they do on the whole, but a guy here had one of the Chinese surplus guns with rotted out barrel rebored to 9mm P for the cheap ammo. Accuracy was good, but feed reliability went out the window. We tried everything we could think of, including OALs longer than a Luger will take.

James K · May 24, 2014, 10:12 PM

The magazine feed lips are cut differently.

Jim

Peter M. Eick · May 25, 2014, 07:47 AM

Mine (shown above) is refinished. The seller made no bones about it. I bought it because it was 9mm and right now I was not interested in taking on the 30 Mauser as a reloading project.

Mine appears to be original and correct. It has all of the correct features and is fun to shoot although I have not fired many rounds in it.

Where the locking block fits into the receiver, the metal is bowed. I did not notice it when I bought it, so either I did it with 50 rounds of commercial ammo or it was like that way from day one. I need to document it with the calipers (the amount of bow that is) shoot it some more and see if it is getting worse. If so then I have to download more or I have a pretty chunk of metal in the safe.

My guess is that the bow is original or maybe more accurately my hope is that it is original. We shall see.

Colt46 · May 25, 2014, 11:16 AM

A lot of fantastic history related to it as well.

tipoc · May 25, 2014, 01:12 PM

I'm far from an expert on the C-96 and it is a much debated gun by collectors. Apparently the Mauser factory records were destroyed at the end of WWII. Books are many and useful and here are a few more internet sources...

http://www.northwest-denture.com/mauser1896/

http://www.mauserguns.com/forum/

http://www.g6csy.net/c96/

http://www.g6csy.net/c96/c96_faq.txt

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/C96_Forum/info

tipoc

May 23, 2014, 09:57 AM	#1
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	A question about the Mauser C96,,, What does that big red 9 on the stocks designate? Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

May 23, 2014, 03:15 PM	#4
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Thanks gentlemen,,, Thanks gentlemen,,, Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

May 23, 2014, 08:22 PM	#6
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	hen the German Army ordered the C96 in 9mm Luger, they specified that they wanted the "red 9" grips to make sure there wouldn't be cases of people trying to load 7.62 Mauser into a 9mm Luger pistol, or vice-versa; interestingly, before WW1, Mauser also made a 9mm MAUSER version of the C96 (sort of like 9mm Largo), but it never sold very well and was dropped. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

May 25, 2014, 11:16 AM	#13
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	Beautiful gun A lot of fantastic history related to it as well.

May 23, 2014, 10:03 AM	#2
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	It means is a 9mm. Most C-96s were in 30 Mauser

May 23, 2014, 02:41 PM	#3
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	You mean like this one?

May 23, 2014, 08:14 PM	#5
willr Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 356	9 does,of course mean 9mm. The distinction of the C96 is that it has NO pins, and the only screw is the one that holds the grips on. It is a masterpiece of design and manufacture -- as well, I think, as the first successful semi-auto pistol. willr

May 23, 2014, 09:09 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Of course the 9mm Mauser version was made for export; the ammo was almost unavailable in Germany and was never military issue. A note of caution: The "Red 9" Mauser is probably the most faked pistol in the world, with fake guns and fake grips abounding. Anyone considering buying one at any more than the cost of a 7.63mm gun should do a lot of homework before shelling out the shekels. The grips on the gun shown appear to be genuine, but the gun has been reblued. Jim

May 24, 2014, 05:29 PM	#8
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Only about 135,000 of the "Red Nine" Mausers were made between 1916-1918 for a Prussian contract. Not all the guns were delivered and not all the guns of the contract had the red nine carved and painted into the grip. Sometimes it was a black nine and sometimes no nine at all (it was up to unit armorers to carve the nines so the nines are not all identical). There are ways to tell the authentic from the fake and you can read on that some here... http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/index.html tipoc

May 24, 2014, 09:20 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There seems to be a question about the statement that unit armorers put on the "red 9" and that they differ. I can't say that is not true, but in my limited experience, the markings of genuine guns are all the same and show every indication of having been put on at the factory. Several "unit armorer" grips I have seen have been obvious fakes and some were on Chinese surplus pistols converted from 7.63mm. The genuine 9mm Parabellum contract pistols have characteristics other than the grips and the caliber and those should be checked to resolve any doubt about the legitimacy of a "red 9" Mauser C-96. Most obvious is the serial number, but the rear sight ramp and elevator also should be of the 9mm type. Plus, the military markings should be German and consistent. Note that the German army did not adopt or issue the C-96 in 7.63mm. The caliber was not in the German supply system, the reason the contract was for 9mm pistols in the first place. Another interesting point is a kind of negative. If the pistol is highly polished, with a deep rust blue like that used on the finest Lugers, either the gun is not a "red 9" or it has been refinished. Original guns have a thin bluing and are fairly rough. Jim

May 24, 2014, 09:55 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,163	I don't know how they do on the whole, but a guy here had one of the Chinese surplus guns with rotted out barrel rebored to 9mm P for the cheap ammo. Accuracy was good, but feed reliability went out the window. We tried everything we could think of, including OALs longer than a Luger will take.

May 24, 2014, 10:12 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The magazine feed lips are cut differently. Jim

May 25, 2014, 07:47 AM	#12
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Mine (shown above) is refinished. The seller made no bones about it. I bought it because it was 9mm and right now I was not interested in taking on the 30 Mauser as a reloading project. Mine appears to be original and correct. It has all of the correct features and is fun to shoot although I have not fired many rounds in it. Where the locking block fits into the receiver, the metal is bowed. I did not notice it when I bought it, so either I did it with 50 rounds of commercial ammo or it was like that way from day one. I need to document it with the calipers (the amount of bow that is) shoot it some more and see if it is getting worse. If so then I have to download more or I have a pretty chunk of metal in the safe. My guess is that the bow is original or maybe more accurately my hope is that it is original. We shall see.

May 25, 2014, 01:12 PM	#14
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	I'm far from an expert on the C-96 and it is a much debated gun by collectors. Apparently the Mauser factory records were destroyed at the end of WWII. Books are many and useful and here are a few more internet sources... http://www.northwest-denture.com/mauser1896/ http://www.mauserguns.com/forum/ http://www.g6csy.net/c96/ http://www.g6csy.net/c96/c96_faq.txt https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/C96_Forum/info tipoc