Thermal Imaging Scope

Snub · April 20, 2014, 11:55 AM

[B]I bought an AK47 strictly for protection. I estimate the target to be very short range: around 20 – 40 yards. If I were forced to protect my family, night time conditions will come into play, so I want a scope that will handle this. I’m seriously leaning toward a thermal imaging scope vs. a NV. Here’s the issue: Other than what I researched on the Internet I know nothing about thermal scopes and they’re too darn expensive to buy one I won’t be pleased with.

I do not want to pay additional money for one offering video recording if there is such a thing. I do want one that can be used in both daytime and nighttime conditions and because the target range will be so close I think anything over 1x – 1.5x magnification would be too strong.

If possible I would like to pay in the $4,000 range, but am open to $6,000 - $7,000 if necessary to get what I want with high quality. I’m not concerned about low battery life because I would keep a bunch of them on hand. Here are some questions:

Is there a difference between a sight and a scope?

What do I look for in a good thermal imaging scope?

Are there thermal imaging scopes that work well in sunlight and dark (night) conditions?

Would I be better off buying a red dot scope for daylight conditions and a thermal scope for nighttime? Quick release scopes, of course.

Are they durable or will I need to replace a part or parts over time? Keep in mind that the ONLY time I would use it would be IF the need would arise to protect my family at night. I do not hunt and have no hog problems.

And please offer suggestions as to what scope you would recommend.[/
B]
Thanks.

mxsailor803 · April 21, 2014, 11:34 AM

Don't take this as being rude, have you ever considered a flashlight light mount with good iron sights with glow paint? It just seems that you are wanting to head over to the extreme side of optics with out being positive with what you want. Since its mainly for HD, I see the thermal scope becoming a hinderance, more than helpful. Mainly size. Those things are not small or light weight by any means. Remember, most HD situations will be very close. Like close enough that you would have to aim a shotgun like a rifle close. For that reasoning, I would steer clear of a magnifying optic. A simple red dot could work, if you remember to turn it on during a high-stress situation. The same would apply to a thermal optic.

Snub · April 21, 2014, 06:42 PM

The issue I have with a flashlight is the target will easily see where I am, but someone who is very informed about scopes suggested the same thing today. I might just do that. I'm tired of researching.

Today a salesperson told me I should buy a PVS-14 Night Vision Monocular that sits behind the scope. He told me that it's so effective I could recognize faces at night. I have a hard time believing that.

mxsailor803 · April 21, 2014, 06:58 PM

That sounds a little far fetched to me. I'd ask the sales guy to prove that one.

Snub · April 21, 2014, 07:09 PM

mxsailor803 - You and about 20 members of another forum have convinced me to go with the flashlight.

Thanks for saving me lots of $$$$$$$$$

mxsailor803 · April 21, 2014, 07:14 PM

Oh I ain't saving you any money. GO BUY AMMO lol.

Snub · April 21, 2014, 07:27 PM

I have enough ammo, and I agree with you about the scope. It would need to be proved to me.

Old Stony · April 22, 2014, 05:45 AM

I have to agree, the flashlight is the better alternative here. I have been playing with a thermal scope shooting hogs, and at a close range they would only hinder you. You have to place your head onto the stock to see through the scope and get your eye to focus on something and you just can't do it quickly at a short distance. The night vision goggles might be an alternative, I haven't played with any of those yet, but I just couldn't imagine waking up to a noise and fumbling on a set of goggles in the middle of the night.

wogpotter · April 22, 2014, 07:39 AM

Quote:

I estimate the target to be very short range: around 20 – 40 yards.

Your biggest problem is going to be FOV.

Night Vision & thermal have a tight Field Of View compared to the human eye. At those close distances you're going to find it a huge liability.

Imagine (or even try) this. Rubber band or tape the card core from a roll of TP to the top of the rifle. Now, while looking through the tube clear a room or set of rooms.

Brian Pfleuger · April 22, 2014, 11:04 AM

It's hard for me to imagine a realistic, American civilian self defense scenario that involves engaging targets from 40 yards away.

Double Naught Spy · April 23, 2014, 09:45 AM

Quote:

It's hard for me to imagine a realistic, American civilian self defense scenario that involves engaging targets from 40 yards away.

And yet we have discussed them here...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+park+shooting

Not as the title claimed, but more than 40 yards.

The you have Tacoma Mall where the CCWer didn't engage the shooter at long distance. Several open space mall shootings would have people in danger at greater than 40 yards where they could be justified and realistically return fire.

Charlie Whitman and the UT Tower shooter incident

Vang and the Wisconsin hunter's incident would have been and excellent case where long distance self defense would have been necessary...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/11...ting-massacre/

The 1979 Cleveland school shooting occurred across a street at distances exceeding 40 yards.

If somebody is trying to kill you from distance such as with a firearm, be it 1 yard or 400, you can engage in self defense. People have been targeted at longer ranges, though there were not always people there to engage back.

kraigwy · April 23, 2014, 10:08 AM

I don't know if you've ever used thermal imaging scopes but they cant tell the difference between your kids coming in late at night or a bandit.

I also question 40 yards for self defense, unless you're talking about protecting domestic live stock from predators. Again identification could be a problem.

For home defense, its hard to beat night lights to help with identification. For protecting livestock a good spot light is hard to beat. Night lights are crucial for me, I have a midnight Black Lab that I trip over walking around at night.

Brian Pfleuger · April 23, 2014, 11:56 AM

Quote:

And yet we have discussed them here...

None of which involved or would have been aided by a thermal scope nor do any of them fit the OPs description.

I might get hit by a meteor too but I'm not spending $4,000 to stop it from happening.

Sooner or later, things have to be far enough down the probability and/or cost/benefit list that we simply ignore them.

April 20, 2014, 11:55 AM	#1
Snub Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Posts: 19	Thermal Imaging Scope [B]I bought an AK47 strictly for protection. I estimate the target to be very short range: around 20 – 40 yards. If I were forced to protect my family, night time conditions will come into play, so I want a scope that will handle this. I’m seriously leaning toward a thermal imaging scope vs. a NV. Here’s the issue: Other than what I researched on the Internet I know nothing about thermal scopes and they’re too darn expensive to buy one I won’t be pleased with. I do not want to pay additional money for one offering video recording if there is such a thing. I do want one that can be used in both daytime and nighttime conditions and because the target range will be so close I think anything over 1x – 1.5x magnification would be too strong. If possible I would like to pay in the $4,000 range, but am open to $6,000 - $7,000 if necessary to get what I want with high quality. I’m not concerned about low battery life because I would keep a bunch of them on hand. Here are some questions: Is there a difference between a sight and a scope? What do I look for in a good thermal imaging scope? Are there thermal imaging scopes that work well in sunlight and dark (night) conditions? Would I be better off buying a red dot scope for daylight conditions and a thermal scope for nighttime? Quick release scopes, of course. Are they durable or will I need to replace a part or parts over time? Keep in mind that the ONLY time I would use it would be IF the need would arise to protect my family at night. I do not hunt and have no hog problems. And please offer suggestions as to what scope you would recommend.[/ B] Thanks. Last edited by Snub; April 20, 2014 at 01:24 PM.

April 21, 2014, 06:42 PM	#3
Snub Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Posts: 19	Thermal Imaging The issue I have with a flashlight is the target will easily see where I am, but someone who is very informed about scopes suggested the same thing today. I might just do that. I'm tired of researching. Today a salesperson told me I should buy a PVS-14 Night Vision Monocular that sits behind the scope. He told me that it's so effective I could recognize faces at night. I have a hard time believing that.

April 21, 2014, 07:09 PM	#5
Snub Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Posts: 19	Flashlight mxsailor803 - You and about 20 members of another forum have convinced me to go with the flashlight. Thanks for saving me lots of $$$$$$$$$

April 22, 2014, 11:04 AM	#10
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	It's hard for me to imagine a realistic, American civilian self defense scenario that involves engaging targets from 40 yards away. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

April 23, 2014, 10:08 AM	#12
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I don't know if you've ever used thermal imaging scopes but they cant tell the difference between your kids coming in late at night or a bandit. I also question 40 yards for self defense, unless you're talking about protecting domestic live stock from predators. Again identification could be a problem. For home defense, its hard to beat night lights to help with identification. For protecting livestock a good spot light is hard to beat. Night lights are crucial for me, I have a midnight Black Lab that I trip over walking around at night. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

April 21, 2014, 11:34 AM	#2
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	Don't take this as being rude, have you ever considered a flashlight light mount with good iron sights with glow paint? It just seems that you are wanting to head over to the extreme side of optics with out being positive with what you want. Since its mainly for HD, I see the thermal scope becoming a hinderance, more than helpful. Mainly size. Those things are not small or light weight by any means. Remember, most HD situations will be very close. Like close enough that you would have to aim a shotgun like a rifle close. For that reasoning, I would steer clear of a magnifying optic. A simple red dot could work, if you remember to turn it on during a high-stress situation. The same would apply to a thermal optic.

April 21, 2014, 06:58 PM	#4
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	That sounds a little far fetched to me. I'd ask the sales guy to prove that one.

April 21, 2014, 07:14 PM	#6
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	Oh I ain't saving you any money. GO BUY AMMO lol.

April 21, 2014, 07:27 PM	#7
Snub Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Posts: 19	I have enough ammo, and I agree with you about the scope. It would need to be proved to me.

April 22, 2014, 05:45 AM	#8
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	I have to agree, the flashlight is the better alternative here. I have been playing with a thermal scope shooting hogs, and at a close range they would only hinder you. You have to place your head onto the stock to see through the scope and get your eye to focus on something and you just can't do it quickly at a short distance. The night vision goggles might be an alternative, I haven't played with any of those yet, but I just couldn't imagine waking up to a noise and fumbling on a set of goggles in the middle of the night.