Scraping a lot of brass off case neck?

Hemingway · April 16, 2014, 11:41 PM

Hello everyone. New to forum and new to reloading rifle. I have loaded many thousand of handgun rounds, but recently decided to have a go at reloading 223. I began on an old Lyman Spartan T press and a few months ago decided to move up to a Dillon XL650. It is really an amazing press. I read up and educated myself as to the steps involved in reloading rifle. (I have actually had most everything I've needed for a while, I just recently decided to start when I got the Dillon.) But I haven't come across anything to explain this. Since I am just reloading plinking rounds for the range (AR-15 & .223 pistol) they do not need to be competition grade. I will be purchasing either a co-ax or rock chucker supreme single stage press later this year for more precise 223, 30-06 & 308. But back to the problem: Brand new Lyman 223 dies and my 1st attempt...stuck case (lubed with Dillon case lube). It was not my first stuck case ever...so drilled, tapped and backed out cartridge as usual. Attempt 2: used RCBS case lube on a lube pad this time and deprimed and sized a few only to have them come out like most of the metal on the neck was scraped off? I don't feel they are safe to go onto next step. Anybody know what's going on? I mean...I'd hate to think its the dies...they are brand new. (it is depriming.) The different lengths of neck shaving (in the pictures) was because I tried adjusting the height of the die. Ideas? Suggestions? Answers?
PS... Thanks in advance for help!

LE-28 · April 17, 2014, 06:23 AM

Are you lubricating the necks? I would take the resizing die apart and clean it really good with copper cleaner and a copper brush and start over. Clean it like you would a pistol barrel and relubricate it when your done. I always rinse my copper brushes back off in my kitchen sink with really hot water when I'm done so the copper cleaner doesn't eat them up.

In your pictures the cases don't look like their over expanded, they just are gaulling in your die.

It looks like lack of enough lube. You could try your Dillon spray lube again but hose them down with it from about a 45 deg angle from both sides and let them sit for about 10-15minutes for the solvent to evaporate out.

I resize 30-30 and 30-06 with One Shot and have no problems at all with picking up or sticking cases, as long as I let the case lube dry completely.

You could also try Imperial or Unique sizing wax, Imperial is the highest thought of here.

Those cases can be resized so don't give up.
Le-28

overthere · April 17, 2014, 06:26 AM

Never seen anything like it. Would seem it has to be die related. What kind of brass is it?

steve4102 · April 17, 2014, 07:50 AM

Call Lyman, send them the die and those cases.

chiefr · April 17, 2014, 08:21 AM

I bought a set of dies not long ago that had the same problem. Sent them back and the second set was OK. Apparently there was a factory problem in final polishing. Send Lyman an email with pics and they should make things right.

mdmtj · April 17, 2014, 08:23 AM

I've had good luck with the One-Shot lube. I put 50-75 pieces in a gallon freezer bag, spray a good shot on them, seal the bag, shake well, dump and let dry. This has served me well for thousands of rounds.

Hemingway · April 17, 2014, 10:35 AM

I really appreciate all of you guys help!

LE-28, I was lubing the necks. Seriously considered using a copper brush with montana extreme copper killer. Next on my list is buying several bottles of One-Shot. Overthere, they were Armscor & Remington Brass. Steve4102 & Chiefr I called Lyman this morning, explained my situation and they asked me to send the dies in along with my contact info and explanation of problem and they would look at it (they didn't say whether they'd charge me) to Attn: REPAIRS. Mdmtj, While the die is away, I will pick up several bottles of one-shot and use your method when I get it back. thanks for all the advice.

Hemingway · April 17, 2014, 01:12 PM

LE-28, I took another look inside and found what looked like a barely noticable amount of brass where the cartridge neck enters the die (all the way up inside the die). It could have been there from the stuck case (when I used the Dillon lube). I used some Montana X-treme Copper Killer and a bore brush like you suggested. I am going to follow some up polishing the inside of the die with something called Flitz (Metal Polish), a cotton swab and a high speed drill. I may even start with a very very very fine grade sandpaper wrapped around the q-tip to smooth any jagged edges. I'm not sure there are any, but it couldn't hurt getting rid of any remaining metal or die metal that might not have been removed when created at Lyman. Then the Flitz polish. I'll come back and post an update. If this doesn't work it will go to Lyman for them to deal with it.

MEATSAW · April 17, 2014, 01:22 PM

I wouldn't take any sandpaper to the die, especially a sizing die. You will be removing metal and changing the dimensions, which in turn will alter the proper sizing of the cases. You might also then void any chance of warranty service. Clean out the stuck brass, re-lube the die, and check function. If its still jacked up send it back.

madmo44mag · April 17, 2014, 01:47 PM

Looks to me to be an improperly sized die.
Just to consistent in the way the brass is marred to be brass build up.

Gadawg88 · April 17, 2014, 01:47 PM

Sounds like a die problem to me. I have used both One Shot and Dillon spray lube and I strongly prefer the Dillon lube. I never had a stuck case with either (Lee dies) but I find the Dillon lube easier to use. I use a large zip lock bag, two pumps in the bag to coat the sides of the bag, dump in 50 to 75 cases, two more pumps for good measure. Close the bag and work the bag with your hands to coat all the cases, then (and this is important) let it sit for the specified time in the instructions. I think that is 5 minutes for the Dillon product, but I don't have it in front of me at the moment. The alcohol needs to evaporate leaving the lanoline behind as the lubricating agent. I have done a couple thousand cases of mixed .223, 30 30 win and 7.62x39 with no problems. I would give Lyman a call about the dies.

BOOMST1CK · April 17, 2014, 02:37 PM

I had a similar problem with my hornady 30.06 fl sizing die while reloading nickel cases. Most of the cases went thru the die, but were really tight. Finally had one stuck in the die. Chased the problem up and down trying to figure why this happend. Turned out that two of the cases were oversized. The necks of the cases looked exactly like yours.

Hemingway · April 18, 2014, 12:58 AM

LE-28's solution, plus wrapping some 600grit sandpaper around a q-tip and hitting the inside of the die did the job! I used some metal polish on a cloth barrel polisher & drill and then gave it a try. No more scraping!! But now I'm getting big dents on the shoulder!! (Too much lube.). I need to somehow find a balance, (experience & trial 'n error) enough so that it glides in and out, not so much it dents the shoulder something God awful. Thank you for all the suggestions. I think I will polish every NEW rifle sizing die I ever get from here on forward like I did. It really smoothed things over!.

Thanks a lot for the help everyone!

overthere · April 18, 2014, 02:22 PM

If the die is of the right dimension you should not need to lube the outside of the necks. A small amount of lube inside the neck is good, to prevent stuck cases, but even very small amounts on the outside of the neck can create hydraulic dents. At least so with rcbs lube.

Hemingway · April 18, 2014, 03:21 PM

@ OVERTHERE, Thanks for the advice. I kindof figured it was lube related. I will switch to one-shot or go back to Dillon (hoping I don't end up with another stuck case) and see if that helps. I'll make sure a little is on the inside, and wipe the outside of the shoulder/neck.

jr05 · April 18, 2014, 04:54 PM

I would not wipe the lube off the outside of the cases if you are using a spray/liquid lube. The only time I would be cautious would be with wax or something with more material. You want lubricant on both sides of the case. If Honestly, I lubricate the outside of all cases and then only the inside of cases every 3-5. Much easier than trying to get case lube from a spray bottle inside the necks of every case.

flashhole · April 18, 2014, 05:14 PM

How have you adjusted your die for resizing?

April 17, 2014, 10:35 AM	#7
Hemingway Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2014 Location: SpaceCoast Posts: 5	Thank you all I really appreciate all of you guys help! LE-28, I was lubing the necks. Seriously considered using a copper brush with montana extreme copper killer. Next on my list is buying several bottles of One-Shot. Overthere, they were Armscor & Remington Brass. Steve4102 & Chiefr I called Lyman this morning, explained my situation and they asked me to send the dies in along with my contact info and explanation of problem and they would look at it (they didn't say whether they'd charge me) to Attn: REPAIRS. Mdmtj, While the die is away, I will pick up several bottles of one-shot and use your method when I get it back. thanks for all the advice.

April 18, 2014, 12:58 AM	#13
Hemingway Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2014 Location: SpaceCoast Posts: 5	LE-28's solution, plus wrapping some 600grit sandpaper around a q-tip and hitting the inside of the die did the job! I used some metal polish on a cloth barrel polisher & drill and then gave it a try. No more scraping!! But now I'm getting big dents on the shoulder!! (Too much lube.). I need to somehow find a balance, (experience & trial 'n error) enough so that it glides in and out, not so much it dents the shoulder something God awful. Thank you for all the suggestions. I think I will polish every NEW rifle sizing die I ever get from here on forward like I did. It really smoothed things over!. Thanks a lot for the help everyone! Last edited by Hemingway; April 18, 2014 at 01:23 AM.

April 18, 2014, 05:14 PM	#17
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	How have you adjusted your die for resizing? __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

April 17, 2014, 06:23 AM	#2
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	Are you lubricating the necks? I would take the resizing die apart and clean it really good with copper cleaner and a copper brush and start over. Clean it like you would a pistol barrel and relubricate it when your done. I always rinse my copper brushes back off in my kitchen sink with really hot water when I'm done so the copper cleaner doesn't eat them up. In your pictures the cases don't look like their over expanded, they just are gaulling in your die. It looks like lack of enough lube. You could try your Dillon spray lube again but hose them down with it from about a 45 deg angle from both sides and let them sit for about 10-15minutes for the solvent to evaporate out. I resize 30-30 and 30-06 with One Shot and have no problems at all with picking up or sticking cases, as long as I let the case lube dry completely. You could also try Imperial or Unique sizing wax, Imperial is the highest thought of here. Those cases can be resized so don't give up. Le-28

April 17, 2014, 06:26 AM	#3
overthere Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2012 Posts: 290	Never seen anything like it. Would seem it has to be die related. What kind of brass is it?

April 17, 2014, 07:50 AM	#4
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,968	Call Lyman, send them the die and those cases.

April 17, 2014, 08:21 AM	#5
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I bought a set of dies not long ago that had the same problem. Sent them back and the second set was OK. Apparently there was a factory problem in final polishing. Send Lyman an email with pics and they should make things right.

April 17, 2014, 08:23 AM	#6
mdmtj Member Join Date: March 4, 2013 Posts: 80	I've had good luck with the One-Shot lube. I put 50-75 pieces in a gallon freezer bag, spray a good shot on them, seal the bag, shake well, dump and let dry. This has served me well for thousands of rounds.

April 17, 2014, 01:12 PM	#8
Hemingway Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2014 Location: SpaceCoast Posts: 5	LE-28, I took another look inside and found what looked like a barely noticable amount of brass where the cartridge neck enters the die (all the way up inside the die). It could have been there from the stuck case (when I used the Dillon lube). I used some Montana X-treme Copper Killer and a bore brush like you suggested. I am going to follow some up polishing the inside of the die with something called Flitz (Metal Polish), a cotton swab and a high speed drill. I may even start with a very very very fine grade sandpaper wrapped around the q-tip to smooth any jagged edges. I'm not sure there are any, but it couldn't hurt getting rid of any remaining metal or die metal that might not have been removed when created at Lyman. Then the Flitz polish. I'll come back and post an update. If this doesn't work it will go to Lyman for them to deal with it.

April 17, 2014, 01:22 PM	#9
MEATSAW Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2009 Location: Burnet, TX Posts: 727	I wouldn't take any sandpaper to the die, especially a sizing die. You will be removing metal and changing the dimensions, which in turn will alter the proper sizing of the cases. You might also then void any chance of warranty service. Clean out the stuck brass, re-lube the die, and check function. If its still jacked up send it back.

April 17, 2014, 01:47 PM	#10
madmo44mag Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Ft.Worth, Texas Posts: 1,522	Looks to me to be an improperly sized die. Just to consistent in the way the brass is marred to be brass build up.

April 17, 2014, 01:47 PM	#11
Gadawg88 Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Georgia Posts: 241	Sounds like a die problem to me. I have used both One Shot and Dillon spray lube and I strongly prefer the Dillon lube. I never had a stuck case with either (Lee dies) but I find the Dillon lube easier to use. I use a large zip lock bag, two pumps in the bag to coat the sides of the bag, dump in 50 to 75 cases, two more pumps for good measure. Close the bag and work the bag with your hands to coat all the cases, then (and this is important) let it sit for the specified time in the instructions. I think that is 5 minutes for the Dillon product, but I don't have it in front of me at the moment. The alcohol needs to evaporate leaving the lanoline behind as the lubricating agent. I have done a couple thousand cases of mixed .223, 30 30 win and 7.62x39 with no problems. I would give Lyman a call about the dies.

April 17, 2014, 02:37 PM	#12
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117	I had a similar problem with my hornady 30.06 fl sizing die while reloading nickel cases. Most of the cases went thru the die, but were really tight. Finally had one stuck in the die. Chased the problem up and down trying to figure why this happend. Turned out that two of the cases were oversized. The necks of the cases looked exactly like yours.

April 18, 2014, 02:22 PM	#14
overthere Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2012 Posts: 290	If the die is of the right dimension you should not need to lube the outside of the necks. A small amount of lube inside the neck is good, to prevent stuck cases, but even very small amounts on the outside of the neck can create hydraulic dents. At least so with rcbs lube.

April 18, 2014, 03:21 PM	#15
Hemingway Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2014 Location: SpaceCoast Posts: 5	@ OVERTHERE, Thanks for the advice. I kindof figured it was lube related. I will switch to one-shot or go back to Dillon (hoping I don't end up with another stuck case) and see if that helps. I'll make sure a little is on the inside, and wipe the outside of the shoulder/neck.

April 18, 2014, 04:54 PM	#16
jr05 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2006 Location: NH Posts: 145	I would not wipe the lube off the outside of the cases if you are using a spray/liquid lube. The only time I would be cautious would be with wax or something with more material. You want lubricant on both sides of the case. If Honestly, I lubricate the outside of all cases and then only the inside of cases every 3-5. Much easier than trying to get case lube from a spray bottle inside the necks of every case.