AR-15 45 degree offset irons... Who's using them?

globemaster3 · January 20, 2014, 11:59 PM

I've been thinking about adding some offset iron sights to a couple hunting ARs. I have free float tubes (no rails) and railed gas blocks on them.

The pictures I've seen show folks mounting them exclusively on the receiver and the rails on the handguard, but none on the gas block. Considering that the rails on the gas block tend to be a little lower than the top of the receiver, I could understand issues with them not being in the right plane with the bore.

Has anyone seen them built to put on the gas block?

DubC-Hicks · January 21, 2014, 12:45 AM

I haven't seen any for the gas block, but I know someone makes a riser for the gas block, to bring it up to receiver height. I'm not sure who made it though. But it might be an option for you.

Tipsy Mcstagger · January 21, 2014, 09:02 PM

Okay, your thread asks who's using them and ill answer that, but I do not have one on the gas block. I have an MI offset rail under the scope and before my rear buis. It's on the same plane as the barrel and tilting the gun to shoot it feels completely natural. It makes more sense than using your chin for a cheek weld looking over the scope at an above the scope mounted red dot.

lmccrock · January 22, 2014, 07:43 AM

Who is using them? 3-gun competitors. One of my rifles has them. If the stages are built to allow their advantage, great, but they are not necessary. If you want a quick angled offset sight, angle-mounting just a small dot sight on the rear probably works better (unless you are trying to stay out of Open division in 3-gun).

Mobuck · January 22, 2014, 08:04 AM

WHY would you need something like this for a "hunting rifle"? A solution to a nonexistent problem AFAIC.
Learn to mount the rifle with your eye aligned with the scope(and don't use a stupidly high magnification) and you won't "need" additional open sights.

globemaster3 · January 22, 2014, 08:21 AM

Mobuck, the irons would just be a backup to the glass. Something happens to the scope, (rifle gets dropped, scope breaks, loss of zero, etc), and a quick tilt would allow employment of the irons.

The biggest problem I have is I configured my kids' hunting ARs the same and the gas block is lower than the receiver rail, and the handguard is a smooth free float tube, so I don't have any rail level with the upper to mount them on. I've seen them mounted on the forward rails of the handguard, but based upon my Google Fu skills, I don't see any manufactured for this setup.

Perhaps I mislabeled the thread, but I wanted to find those using these sights in the hope that someone knew of a manufacturer who makes a front sight built for these circumstances. If not, then in the end it won't matter unless I change out the handguard.

My biggest concern is sometimes I drive quite a distance to hunt. Although my kids are trained to take care of their rifles, they are kids and sometimes things can be broken or knocked out of alignment. The irons would just be a fall back position to save a hunt.

Tipsy Mcstagger · January 22, 2014, 08:41 PM

The red dot is extremely handy in low light and when you want to hit a running animal, like a hog. If you want one on your front sight base, install a rail-height gas block? I don't hunt from a blind so many times I've walked up on an animal running away, and for me, the red dot is the way to go in that situation.

Mobuck · January 23, 2014, 07:29 AM

My thoughts are: any "event" which would damage a good scope would also mess up a set of sights hung off the side of the rifle. I've seen a few instances where a scope failed during a hunt but VERY FEW. One thing to consider is finding a case that will adequately protect a rifle with sights on the side.
The reason I say this is that the assisted sighting device on my blind Son's rifles hang off the right side. I had to custom build gun cases for the rifles.
I know a guy who does the "3 gun" thing and he had to remove the offset sights in order to case his rifle. His comments about the sights were "Not much good except at very close range". He quit using them and spent big bucks for a 1-6x variable for his competition rifle.

Beentown71 · January 23, 2014, 08:55 AM

I have one o'clock mounted dots on my hunting and comp rifles. They are extremely helpful where I hunt. 300+ acre corn fields with 20 acre wood lots. Many times yotes pop out of the fence rows WAY closer than expected. Tilt the rifle slightly and use the red dot.

MarkCO · January 23, 2014, 11:10 AM

^ Nice piece of glass right behind the ejection port.

Offset irons have run their course and sales are dropping. When variable powered optics with true 1x were not available, they offered a faster option. Now with good 1-4s through 1-8s and magnification ring levers, even hunters have a better choice.

I think your money would be better spent on a fixed 1x or 3x AR optic with an integral base to carry as a backup. With that in your bag, you won't have to worry.

HJ857 · January 23, 2014, 03:39 PM

My 3-gun upper is set up just like the one pictured and ejecting brass has never been an issue.

Beentown71 · January 23, 2014, 06:13 PM

Mine has never had a brass issue. Haven't owned an AR that sends it that direction...

globemaster3 · January 23, 2014, 10:44 PM

Thanks for the inputs. Based upon my current setups, looks like the options are to either replace the tube or go without with regards to offset irons.

The offset red dot is an idea, but more than I'd be willing to spend right now for a quality one.

nate45 · January 24, 2014, 05:55 AM

AR15 45 Degree Angle Mount

You could use the mounts above and put folding front and rear BUS(back up sight/s) on them.

I have a 1x red dot set up as absolute co-witness and I run my BUS up most all the time. I have a screw on magnifier that makes it 2x, it works okay, but I'm really intrigued by the idea of a flip to the side magnifier, one in 3x would be about perfect for me.

globemaster3 · January 24, 2014, 08:31 AM

Thanks Nate. I looked at those as well, but the problem with the shorter rail on the gas block will still put the front sight out of plane with the rear.

If I ever decide to go with a small red dot, I'll probably use something like this on the upper.

Mobuck · January 24, 2014, 09:08 AM

Mount a GOOD scope and learn to use it-you won't "need" auxiliary sights. If you're extremely concerned about scope failure, either carry a spare or spend more on the first scope.
I've killed deer @10 yards and 400 yards with a fixed 4X scope and didn't feel disadvantaged in either case. High magnification scopes have a very narrow use range and in normal hunting scenarios, cause more problems than they solve.
PS
If you feel the need for added "short range sights" because your scope isn't working for you, you need to reassess your scope needs(on a hunting rifle).

DubC-Hicks · January 24, 2014, 09:31 AM

YHM Gas Block Riser (YHM-230)

Google that, its a riser to raise your gas block rail to receiver height. It'd fix your problem.

Beentown71 · January 24, 2014, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobuck

Mount a GOOD scope and learn to use it-you won't "need" auxiliary sights. If you're extremely concerned about scope failure, either carry a spare or spend more on the first scope.
I've killed deer @10 yards and 400 yards with a fixed 4X scope and didn't feel disadvantaged in either case. High magnification scopes have a very narrow use range and in normal hunting scenarios, cause more problems than they solve.
PS
If you feel the need for added "short range sights" because your scope isn't working for you, you need to reassess your scope needs(on a hunting rifle).

You speak in definite terms that are not true for me (not going to speak for everyone else). My yote rifle has a 3.5-10x50 scope on it. I will be set up 500 yards from a wood lot or fence row scanning it on a high power setting (for animals that are hanging up/weary). I do this so I can read reactions and change calls, pitches or tone. I have had many times where they will pop out mere yards from me while scanning. Tilting the rifle a tad is much faster and has less movement than reaching to change magnification and then searching for game in the scope.

Offset sights or red dots are VERY useful in real hunting situations other than waiting for a deer to stroll by...if I am doing that kind of hunting then one scope is going to work just fine and it is more than likely going to be lower power.

The other route I use for 3 gun and yotes when the shots are going to be shorter is a 1.5-5 Vortex.

globemaster3 · January 24, 2014, 01:29 PM

DubC-Hiks, thanks for the heads up. I'll check that out.

loose_holster_dan · January 27, 2014, 12:37 PM

i went with a small burris fast fire red dot on my 45 degree mount. it mounts directly in front of my scope mounts. that way you don't have to mount a forward sight.

NWCP · January 28, 2014, 05:33 AM

Didn't know they made them. I've seen scoped rifles with offset red dots.

dean1818 · January 28, 2014, 05:44 AM

1x4 gets me from 1 to 200

globemaster3 · January 28, 2014, 07:37 AM

Dan, thanks for the idea. The problem is in the numbers. I have a rifle for each kid configured the same, so that many Fast Fires, although sounds appealing, would be big $.

Dean, they are configured with 3-9X40 already, which is the same magnification I prefer.

I shared with another member via PM, what really got this kicked off was a hunt I drove 10.5 hours with my oldest to enjoy. Upon arrival, when we inspected our gear, it was discovered her scope rings were loose. This is not uncommon for that rifle, and I had ensured I torqued them to specs prior to the last range session. As there was an hour left before dark, we ran to a range in the property, torqued them again with LocTite, rezeroed, and we were good. Where we hunted, having deer step out at 20 feet is not uncommon, and on 3 power, it's still a bit much. Had we not checked our gear the night before, and she discovered it in the blind morning of, the morning hunt would have been ruined. An offset sight or offset irons would have saved the hunt in those circumstances. Hence, before next season comes around and I get to hunt with the kids again after 2 years of missing seasons due to the USAF, I wanted to consider offset sights.

That AR is the only rifle I ever owned that would shoot the rings loose...

Evad · January 28, 2014, 02:13 PM

If you want to use 45-degree offsets, make sure they are BORE CONCENTRIC, which means that the center post of your sight is directly above the center of the bore when you tilt your rifle 45 degrees. There are many companies that make offset mounts, but only one I've found that makes them this way, which, IMO, should be the only way. JP Enterprises. and you will definitely want the front set mounted at the same height as the rear set. Get the mounts, then install whatever rail-mounted set of iron sights appeals to you.

Bartholomew Roberts · January 30, 2014, 07:50 PM

I have a 45 deg offset Aimpoint T1. The roles it works well in are quite limited and usually involve weak side shooting and/or a bad cheek weld, situations which don't translate to iron sights. The only real use I see for offset iron sights is they let you stay out of Open class in certain competitions.

January 20, 2014, 11:59 PM	#1
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	AR-15 45 degree offset irons... Who's using them? I've been thinking about adding some offset iron sights to a couple hunting ARs. I have free float tubes (no rails) and railed gas blocks on them. The pictures I've seen show folks mounting them exclusively on the receiver and the rails on the handguard, but none on the gas block. Considering that the rails on the gas block tend to be a little lower than the top of the receiver, I could understand issues with them not being in the right plane with the bore. Has anyone seen them built to put on the gas block? __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control." Last edited by globemaster3; January 21, 2014 at 08:22 AM.

January 21, 2014, 12:45 AM	#2
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	I haven't seen any for the gas block, but I know someone makes a riser for the gas block, to bring it up to receiver height. I'm not sure who made it though. But it might be an option for you. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

January 22, 2014, 08:21 AM	#6
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	Mobuck, the irons would just be a backup to the glass. Something happens to the scope, (rifle gets dropped, scope breaks, loss of zero, etc), and a quick tilt would allow employment of the irons. The biggest problem I have is I configured my kids' hunting ARs the same and the gas block is lower than the receiver rail, and the handguard is a smooth free float tube, so I don't have any rail level with the upper to mount them on. I've seen them mounted on the forward rails of the handguard, but based upon my Google Fu skills, I don't see any manufactured for this setup. Perhaps I mislabeled the thread, but I wanted to find those using these sights in the hope that someone knew of a manufacturer who makes a front sight built for these circumstances. If not, then in the end it won't matter unless I change out the handguard. My biggest concern is sometimes I drive quite a distance to hunt. Although my kids are trained to take care of their rifles, they are kids and sometimes things can be broken or knocked out of alignment. The irons would just be a fall back position to save a hunt. __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."

January 23, 2014, 11:10 AM	#10
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,320	^ Nice piece of glass right behind the ejection port. Offset irons have run their course and sales are dropping. When variable powered optics with true 1x were not available, they offered a faster option. Now with good 1-4s through 1-8s and magnification ring levers, even hunters have a better choice. I think your money would be better spent on a fixed 1x or 3x AR optic with an integral base to carry as a backup. With that in your bag, you won't have to worry. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

January 23, 2014, 06:13 PM	#12
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	Mine has never had a brass issue. Haven't owned an AR that sends it that direction... __________________ Μολὼν λάβε Time for the Mall Ninja list: Beretta 92fs, Springer XD9, High Standard Model HB, RRA bull bbl...aw heck with it time to go plink

January 21, 2014, 09:02 PM	#3
Tipsy Mcstagger Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Location: South Texas Posts: 190	Okay, your thread asks who's using them and ill answer that, but I do not have one on the gas block. I have an MI offset rail under the scope and before my rear buis. It's on the same plane as the barrel and tilting the gun to shoot it feels completely natural. It makes more sense than using your chin for a cheek weld looking over the scope at an above the scope mounted red dot.

January 22, 2014, 07:43 AM	#4
lmccrock Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Red Rock. TX Posts: 820	Who is using them? 3-gun competitors. One of my rifles has them. If the stages are built to allow their advantage, great, but they are not necessary. If you want a quick angled offset sight, angle-mounting just a small dot sight on the rear probably works better (unless you are trying to stay out of Open division in 3-gun).

January 22, 2014, 08:04 AM	#5
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	WHY would you need something like this for a "hunting rifle"? A solution to a nonexistent problem AFAIC. Learn to mount the rifle with your eye aligned with the scope(and don't use a stupidly high magnification) and you won't "need" additional open sights.

January 22, 2014, 08:41 PM	#7
Tipsy Mcstagger Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Location: South Texas Posts: 190	The red dot is extremely handy in low light and when you want to hit a running animal, like a hog. If you want one on your front sight base, install a rail-height gas block? I don't hunt from a blind so many times I've walked up on an animal running away, and for me, the red dot is the way to go in that situation.

January 23, 2014, 07:29 AM	#8
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	My thoughts are: any "event" which would damage a good scope would also mess up a set of sights hung off the side of the rifle. I've seen a few instances where a scope failed during a hunt but VERY FEW. One thing to consider is finding a case that will adequately protect a rifle with sights on the side. The reason I say this is that the assisted sighting device on my blind Son's rifles hang off the right side. I had to custom build gun cases for the rifles. I know a guy who does the "3 gun" thing and he had to remove the offset sights in order to case his rifle. His comments about the sights were "Not much good except at very close range". He quit using them and spent big bucks for a 1-6x variable for his competition rifle.

January 23, 2014, 08:55 AM	#9
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	I have one o'clock mounted dots on my hunting and comp rifles. They are extremely helpful where I hunt. 300+ acre corn fields with 20 acre wood lots. Many times yotes pop out of the fence rows WAY closer than expected. Tilt the rifle slightly and use the red dot.

January 23, 2014, 03:39 PM	#11
HJ857 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 447	My 3-gun upper is set up just like the one pictured and ejecting brass has never been an issue.

January 23, 2014, 10:44 PM	#13
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	Thanks for the inputs. Based upon my current setups, looks like the options are to either replace the tube or go without with regards to offset irons. The offset red dot is an idea, but more than I'd be willing to spend right now for a quality one. __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."

January 24, 2014, 05:55 AM	#14
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	AR15 45 Degree Angle Mount You could use the mounts above and put folding front and rear BUS(back up sight/s) on them. I have a 1x red dot set up as absolute co-witness and I run my BUS up most all the time. I have a screw on magnifier that makes it 2x, it works okay, but I'm really intrigued by the idea of a flip to the side magnifier, one in 3x would be about perfect for me.

January 24, 2014, 08:31 AM	#15
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	Thanks Nate. I looked at those as well, but the problem with the shorter rail on the gas block will still put the front sight out of plane with the rear. If I ever decide to go with a small red dot, I'll probably use something like this on the upper. __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."

January 24, 2014, 09:08 AM	#16
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Mount a GOOD scope and learn to use it-you won't "need" auxiliary sights. If you're extremely concerned about scope failure, either carry a spare or spend more on the first scope. I've killed deer @10 yards and 400 yards with a fixed 4X scope and didn't feel disadvantaged in either case. High magnification scopes have a very narrow use range and in normal hunting scenarios, cause more problems than they solve. PS If you feel the need for added "short range sights" because your scope isn't working for you, you need to reassess your scope needs(on a hunting rifle).

January 24, 2014, 09:31 AM	#17
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	YHM Gas Block Riser (YHM-230) Google that, its a riser to raise your gas block rail to receiver height. It'd fix your problem. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

January 24, 2014, 01:29 PM	#19
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	DubC-Hiks, thanks for the heads up. I'll check that out. __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."

January 27, 2014, 12:37 PM	#20
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	i went with a small burris fast fire red dot on my 45 degree mount. it mounts directly in front of my scope mounts. that way you don't have to mount a forward sight.

January 28, 2014, 05:33 AM	#21
NWCP Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 1,903	Didn't know they made them. I've seen scoped rifles with offset red dots.

January 28, 2014, 05:44 AM	#22
dean1818 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Frisco Texas Posts: 844	1x4 gets me from 1 to 200

January 28, 2014, 07:37 AM	#23
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	Dan, thanks for the idea. The problem is in the numbers. I have a rifle for each kid configured the same, so that many Fast Fires, although sounds appealing, would be big $. Dean, they are configured with 3-9X40 already, which is the same magnification I prefer. I shared with another member via PM, what really got this kicked off was a hunt I drove 10.5 hours with my oldest to enjoy. Upon arrival, when we inspected our gear, it was discovered her scope rings were loose. This is not uncommon for that rifle, and I had ensured I torqued them to specs prior to the last range session. As there was an hour left before dark, we ran to a range in the property, torqued them again with LocTite, rezeroed, and we were good. Where we hunted, having deer step out at 20 feet is not uncommon, and on 3 power, it's still a bit much. Had we not checked our gear the night before, and she discovered it in the blind morning of, the morning hunt would have been ruined. An offset sight or offset irons would have saved the hunt in those circumstances. Hence, before next season comes around and I get to hunt with the kids again after 2 years of missing seasons due to the USAF, I wanted to consider offset sights. That AR is the only rifle I ever owned that would shoot the rings loose... __________________ NRA Life Member "We have enough gun control. What we need is idiot control."

January 28, 2014, 02:13 PM	#24
Evad Member Join Date: February 4, 2011 Location: Fond du Lac, WI Posts: 37	If you want to use 45-degree offsets, make sure they are BORE CONCENTRIC, which means that the center post of your sight is directly above the center of the bore when you tilt your rifle 45 degrees. There are many companies that make offset mounts, but only one I've found that makes them this way, which, IMO, should be the only way. JP Enterprises. and you will definitely want the front set mounted at the same height as the rear set. Get the mounts, then install whatever rail-mounted set of iron sights appeals to you.

January 30, 2014, 07:50 PM	#25
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I have a 45 deg offset Aimpoint T1. The roles it works well in are quite limited and usually involve weak side shooting and/or a bad cheek weld, situations which don't translate to iron sights. The only real use I see for offset iron sights is they let you stay out of Open class in certain competitions.