Improved stainless steel pin cleaning

BigCheese · January 6, 2014, 11:23 AM

Brass cleaned by the wet stainless steel pin method often has problems with galling both on the outside where it contacts the carbide resizing die, and the inside surface when it is forced into the steel belling/powder charge die in my Dillon 550. Brass is torn from the case surface and adheres to the dies. Both the outside and inside surfaces show multiple score marks until the dies are cleaned. Sometimes it is very difficult to remove the case from the belling die.

The problem is that there is sliding of completely clean metal to metal without any type of lubricating film. A secondary operation of dry cleaning in corncob/Nu-Finish car polish after wet cleaning helped the outside surface problem, but not the inside. The sizing operation was OK, but the cases still stuck in the belling die.

To correct the problem, I substituted "Armor All Ultra Shine Wash & Wax" car wash for the usual Dawn detergent. This cleaned the brass thoroughly and apparently put a thin wax film on the brass, since in the 100+ rounds loaded the sticking and scoring problems have gone away. This is easier than using a spray lube.

Use 2 measured tablespoons of Armor All + 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine with 1 pint less than a gallon of water (measured) so that 3 lbs. of brass can be cleaned at a time. It was a surprise when opening the tumbler that there were almost no suds, but the water was black and the cases super clean.

Armor All is available at Target and Walmart; about $5 for the large bottle.

jaguarxk120 · January 6, 2014, 12:25 PM

Sounds like a good fix. I usually give the clean brass a spray with furniture wax from the dollar store, the cheap stuff.

The light wax coating lets the brass slide through the dies with almost no effort.

I just throw the clean brass in a plastic bag spray for 2-3 seconds and tumble them around to coat evenly and let dry.

I think I'll give your method a try, can't hurt.

Beanie-Bean · January 6, 2014, 09:20 PM

BigCheese,

Thanks for the tip--I've just been putting a bunch if brass in a ziplock bag, then spraying the snot out of them with Hornady One Shot, then letting them dry.

I will try your method and will report the results back. .45ACP has been the worst for me. All other calibers run just fine. I had problems at Station #2, then again at #4 when the crimp was applied.

Mavrick79 · January 6, 2014, 10:56 PM

Did it change to color of your brass. I tried mixing in turtle wax zip wax and it worked well but my brass came out a little bit duller or less yellow color. What I do now is separate the pins out, rinse, then put them in the zip wax/water solution, then rinse again. The brass comes out just like you say, a little bit slippery and it also retains its shine better.

I'll have to give some of your wax a try as well.

Tex S · January 7, 2014, 12:28 AM

I was not aware of this problem with the ss pin media cleaning alternative, and I have been considering buying a ss setup for quite a while.

What exactly causes this problem? All the cases that I have seen cleaned via this method look beautiful. Am I missing something?

oldandslow · January 7, 2014, 04:25 AM

bc, 1/7/14

I've done about 7,000 cases over the last year and a half and have not run into any trouble with my cases. I usually resize and deprime before stainless steel tumbling however. I've done .45acp, 44sp, 9mm, 38sp, .357 mag, .223/556, 30-30 and 30-06 withoug problems. I resize and reload on several different machines including the Dillon Square Deal B, RCBS rockchucker and Dillon 650. My ss pin tumbling recipe is one-half tablespoon laundry soap (usually Gain), one-half tablespoon dishwashing soap (whatever brand is on sale) and two tablespoons of vinegar (lemon juice works too). I tumble them for anywhere from four hours to twenty-four hours. I'm not sure why you're having problems with your setup but hope it all works out well.

best wishes- oldandslow

Clark · January 7, 2014, 05:48 PM

The problem I have with SS media is if I run the Thumblers Tumbler overnight, the brass looks just like new..... needing the case mouths to be chamfered

Magnum Wheel Man · January 7, 2014, 06:11 PM

pretty good idea... I wonder how it would work on bottlenecked rifle cases ???

schmellba99 · January 8, 2014, 11:08 AM

I have no idea how many thousands of rounds I've run through my SSTL tumbler - haven't had the problems int he press like the OP. But I always pray lube, even with carbide dies. Just an old habit because I don't like the idea of metal on metal, regardless of the different Brinnell hardnes numbers.

The longest I've ever had to tumble was 8 hours, and that was with brass that was almost black from tarnish and dirt. 1 gallon of water, 2 tbsp of dish soap, and a little over half a tsp of powdered Lemi-Shine with a 4 hour tumble will get normal dirty brass looking like factory new. If it's really dirty, repeat the process after the first 4 hour batch and it comes out looking like factory new.

Magnum Wheel Man · January 8, 2014, 11:28 AM

I use stainless media in an old RCBS rotary tumbler...

typically use a squirt of dawn, & have a life time supply of Citric Acid, that I use instead of Lemishine...

I may have to try one of the car wash / wax combo soaps instead of the Dawn... I don't like having left over lube on my cases, so I end up hand wiping each down after loaded... if there is enough wax residue, that may save a step...

one thing I'd worry about though, would be too much wax on the outside of the case, causing the expanded case ( during firing ) from gripping the chamber walls, & putting extra force on the bolt during at firing of the cartridge, particularly on rifle cases ???

Beanie-Bean · January 18, 2014, 11:43 AM

Did several batches of 9x19 cases, and thus is the first time I've had NO pins stuck in the flash holes! On my first batch of .45ACP, so I'll try and get some dried out in the sun today so that I can load 'em up first thing tomorrow.

I am using 3 tbsp of the Armor All wash/wax, and 1/4 tsp of lemishine in my solution and running it for two hours.

jmorris · January 18, 2014, 05:44 PM

I lube all of my cases, looks like armor all does the same thing as they are being cleaned and doesn't rinse off. Good work.

Nick_C_S · January 18, 2014, 07:48 PM

My tumbler from Harbor Freight is due to arrive via FedEx today. But I'm at work

At any rate, I'm going to give SS tumbling a try for the first time here pretty soon - probably first thing tomorrow morning.

I'm sure my process will evolve with time. But currently, the plan is to first clean with a Lyman unit with corn cob - as I do now. Then, clean with the SS method after the primers are removed.

We'll see how it goes.

Louca · January 18, 2014, 11:13 PM

Quote:

To correct the problem, I substituted "Armor All Ultra Shine Wash & Wax" car wash for the usual Dawn detergent. This cleaned the brass thoroughly and apparently put a thin wax film on the brass ...

Doesn't that also put a thin film of wax on the inside of the case as well? Would that affect cartridge performance?

BigCheese · January 27, 2014, 01:46 AM

The purpose is to put some wax on the inside of the case, since this is the surface that rubs against the expander. The amount is so small that it will probably have no effect on performance. I'd like to add that after my initial post, it appeared that the substitution of car wax/polish delayed, but did not completely eliminate the problem. I have added a supplementary soak of cleaned cases in another bath of the diluted polish (same as for cleaning), followed by draining (using the squirrel cage), and then drying on a bath towel without a water rinse. This increases the amount of wax and seems to have solved the problem.

January 6, 2014, 11:23 AM	#1
BigCheese Member Join Date: June 17, 2012 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 24	Improved stainless steel pin cleaning Brass cleaned by the wet stainless steel pin method often has problems with galling both on the outside where it contacts the carbide resizing die, and the inside surface when it is forced into the steel belling/powder charge die in my Dillon 550. Brass is torn from the case surface and adheres to the dies. Both the outside and inside surfaces show multiple score marks until the dies are cleaned. Sometimes it is very difficult to remove the case from the belling die. The problem is that there is sliding of completely clean metal to metal without any type of lubricating film. A secondary operation of dry cleaning in corncob/Nu-Finish car polish after wet cleaning helped the outside surface problem, but not the inside. The sizing operation was OK, but the cases still stuck in the belling die. To correct the problem, I substituted "Armor All Ultra Shine Wash & Wax" car wash for the usual Dawn detergent. This cleaned the brass thoroughly and apparently put a thin wax film on the brass, since in the 100+ rounds loaded the sticking and scoring problems have gone away. This is easier than using a spray lube. Use 2 measured tablespoons of Armor All + 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine with 1 pint less than a gallon of water (measured) so that 3 lbs. of brass can be cleaned at a time. It was a surprise when opening the tumbler that there were almost no suds, but the water was black and the cases super clean. Armor All is available at Target and Walmart; about $5 for the large bottle.

January 18, 2014, 07:48 PM	#13
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,616	New to SS pin tumbling My tumbler from Harbor Freight is due to arrive via FedEx today. But I'm at work At any rate, I'm going to give SS tumbling a try for the first time here pretty soon - probably first thing tomorrow morning. I'm sure my process will evolve with time. But currently, the plan is to first clean with a Lyman unit with corn cob - as I do now. Then, clean with the SS method after the primers are removed. We'll see how it goes. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

January 6, 2014, 12:25 PM	#2
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,625	Sounds like a good fix. I usually give the clean brass a spray with furniture wax from the dollar store, the cheap stuff. The light wax coating lets the brass slide through the dies with almost no effort. I just throw the clean brass in a plastic bag spray for 2-3 seconds and tumble them around to coat evenly and let dry. I think I'll give your method a try, can't hurt.

January 6, 2014, 09:20 PM	#3
Beanie-Bean Member Join Date: October 5, 2011 Location: Central TX Posts: 87	BigCheese, Thanks for the tip--I've just been putting a bunch if brass in a ziplock bag, then spraying the snot out of them with Hornady One Shot, then letting them dry. I will try your method and will report the results back. .45ACP has been the worst for me. All other calibers run just fine. I had problems at Station #2, then again at #4 when the crimp was applied.

January 6, 2014, 10:56 PM	#4
Mavrick79 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2013 Posts: 143	Did it change to color of your brass. I tried mixing in turtle wax zip wax and it worked well but my brass came out a little bit duller or less yellow color. What I do now is separate the pins out, rinse, then put them in the zip wax/water solution, then rinse again. The brass comes out just like you say, a little bit slippery and it also retains its shine better. I'll have to give some of your wax a try as well.

January 7, 2014, 12:28 AM	#5
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	I was not aware of this problem with the ss pin media cleaning alternative, and I have been considering buying a ss setup for quite a while. What exactly causes this problem? All the cases that I have seen cleaned via this method look beautiful. Am I missing something?

January 7, 2014, 04:25 AM	#6
oldandslow Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2007 Posts: 641	bc, 1/7/14 I've done about 7,000 cases over the last year and a half and have not run into any trouble with my cases. I usually resize and deprime before stainless steel tumbling however. I've done .45acp, 44sp, 9mm, 38sp, .357 mag, .223/556, 30-30 and 30-06 withoug problems. I resize and reload on several different machines including the Dillon Square Deal B, RCBS rockchucker and Dillon 650. My ss pin tumbling recipe is one-half tablespoon laundry soap (usually Gain), one-half tablespoon dishwashing soap (whatever brand is on sale) and two tablespoons of vinegar (lemon juice works too). I tumble them for anywhere from four hours to twenty-four hours. I'm not sure why you're having problems with your setup but hope it all works out well. best wishes- oldandslow

January 7, 2014, 05:48 PM	#7
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	The problem I have with SS media is if I run the Thumblers Tumbler overnight, the brass looks just like new..... needing the case mouths to be chamfered

January 7, 2014, 06:11 PM	#8
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	pretty good idea... I wonder how it would work on bottlenecked rifle cases ???

January 8, 2014, 11:08 AM	#9
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	I have no idea how many thousands of rounds I've run through my SSTL tumbler - haven't had the problems int he press like the OP. But I always pray lube, even with carbide dies. Just an old habit because I don't like the idea of metal on metal, regardless of the different Brinnell hardnes numbers. The longest I've ever had to tumble was 8 hours, and that was with brass that was almost black from tarnish and dirt. 1 gallon of water, 2 tbsp of dish soap, and a little over half a tsp of powdered Lemi-Shine with a 4 hour tumble will get normal dirty brass looking like factory new. If it's really dirty, repeat the process after the first 4 hour batch and it comes out looking like factory new.

January 8, 2014, 11:28 AM	#10
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I use stainless media in an old RCBS rotary tumbler... typically use a squirt of dawn, & have a life time supply of Citric Acid, that I use instead of Lemishine... I may have to try one of the car wash / wax combo soaps instead of the Dawn... I don't like having left over lube on my cases, so I end up hand wiping each down after loaded... if there is enough wax residue, that may save a step... one thing I'd worry about though, would be too much wax on the outside of the case, causing the expanded case ( during firing ) from gripping the chamber walls, & putting extra force on the bolt during at firing of the cartridge, particularly on rifle cases ???

January 18, 2014, 11:43 AM	#11
Beanie-Bean Member Join Date: October 5, 2011 Location: Central TX Posts: 87	Did several batches of 9x19 cases, and thus is the first time I've had NO pins stuck in the flash holes! On my first batch of .45ACP, so I'll try and get some dried out in the sun today so that I can load 'em up first thing tomorrow. I am using 3 tbsp of the Armor All wash/wax, and 1/4 tsp of lemishine in my solution and running it for two hours.

January 18, 2014, 05:44 PM	#12
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	I lube all of my cases, looks like armor all does the same thing as they are being cleaned and doesn't rinse off. Good work.

January 27, 2014, 01:46 AM	#15
BigCheese Member Join Date: June 17, 2012 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 24	The purpose is to put some wax on the inside of the case, since this is the surface that rubs against the expander. The amount is so small that it will probably have no effect on performance. I'd like to add that after my initial post, it appeared that the substitution of car wax/polish delayed, but did not completely eliminate the problem. I have added a supplementary soak of cleaned cases in another bath of the diluted polish (same as for cleaning), followed by draining (using the squirrel cage), and then drying on a bath towel without a water rinse. This increases the amount of wax and seems to have solved the problem.