Inconsistent powder charges...

[Roland13]

Hey all!

First post. Watched this forum for a while, you helped me pick my pistol and gave some guidance on reloading equipment.

I'm having trouble getting consistent powder charges. I have a Hornady powder measure, (open box special, no model number or anything,) a Hornady GS-1500 scale, and I'm using IMR SR4756 powder for .38 special 158gr semiwadcutter target loads.

I can't tell if my scale or my powder measure is off. I usually tare the scale with a sized casing + primer (roughly 68gr), charge, and check. The scale reports +/- 0.5gr pretty often. Once in a great while I'll get a consistent streak, but I wind up measuring every load because on the high side, the amount of powder well exceeds +P ratings for my load.

I also notice the powder seems to bind in the drum. Sometimes minor, sometimes major, but I rarely can move the lever smoothly on the upstroke.

Any suggestions for a newbie reloader?

Thanks!

[boondocker385]

Wipe down everything with a fabric dryer cloth to get rid of static.

[Roland13]

Cool, hadn't thought of that. Is the powder charge the main culprit for static? What if I just grounded it permanently, so it would never build a charge?

Is there anything else I can be doing as a reloader, so as not to need to consult the scale for every round? Not a match-grade shooter here, just trying to save money at the range.

[Paul B.]

Just a suggestion; use a bullet of known weight to check your scale. Preferably a jacketed bullet so as to not get bullets lube in the pan. I use an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 for rifle ammo and once I've calibrated it for a loading session, I use a 55 gr. .22 bullet, a 150 grr .30 caliber and 250 gr. 35 caliber bullets to check the scale portion of the tool. For the balance beam type usually the .22 or .30 caliber bullet gets used to check it out. I keep them stored in a pill bottle one of my meds came in.
Paul B.

[JimDandy]

Also, did you CLEAN your powder measure like it says in the instruction booklet? They pack that thing in some sort of rush inhibitor, and you're supposed to clean it before you use it.

[David Bachelder]

Are all of the casings within .5 grains? If not that could be some of the variance you are seeing.

[BigJimP]

Something is really out of whack here.....

A press that is metering powder... plus or minus 0.5gr means you have a full 1.0 grain of variation. That's way too much variation !!!

Many loads - published minimums and maximums are only 0.4 grain apart....( so a variation of plus or minus 0.5gr is way out of published specs ).
----------------
Check for static ( if any powder is sticking to the sides of your powder measure - you have static )......anti static dryer sheets / wipe everything down inside and out will fix it ....but you may need to do it several times.

You might have something mis-adjusted..../ scales will only hold a tolerance of plus or minus 0.1gr ....but you want to see a press dropping exactly the same amount of powder every time ! 0.1gr variation is ok ...not great ...but ok.

Your press might not be on a firm base....and its bouncing ...or the base is flexing ...or you table is not sufficient for reloading. Lots of things might be wrong here.....and since you're looking for +P loads ...your risks are higher .../ go back to your manuals ....and work this stuff out !!

[Swampman1]

Roland, I'm experiencing the same with my Hornady powder measure. And I think these guys are dead on as far as static. Today I noticed some of my powder sticking to the sides(and yes I did clean as directed before using).

Also when you say the powder binds in the drum, are you talking about when you activate the dispensing handle? That happens to me also. I hear these guys talking about how some powders don't "meter" well. Maybe that's it. I use IMR 4198, I always heard the ball powders meter best. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

[GJSchulze]

It would be helpful to know what caliber you're loading. Also, what powder? Powders don't all meter well. .5 variance for rifle may not by too bad, but for handgun is way unacceptable.

Did the scale come with a calibration weight? If so, use it. If not, you can buy a set at MidwayUSA or other places. Electronic scales can be affected by interference from florescent lights. Also by air drafts. The instructions for the scale should mention all of this.

My load is 4.0 gr of Power Pistol. I weigh a load of 10x that to begin each session so I can check accuracy to less than .1gr per load. 40.5 grs mean 4.05 per round. Try that. I use a Hornady powder measure and it is very consistent.

[g.willikers]

Quite a bit of variation can be caused by inconsistent technique.
Make sure the powder transfer piece is allowed to fill from the hopper the same every time.

[noylj]

1) Do you have the PISTOL rotor installed or the RIFLE? It is amazing how many people are using the wrong rotor and cursing their measures.
2) Did you completely clean the measure and run a hopper of graphitized powder or even powdered graphite through it first? All metal parts must be free of oils. You should spray the Hornady Degreaser and Lube to clean and lube the metal parts.
The Hornady is my most consistent measure, followed by the Lee Pro Auto-Disk and the Dillon powder measure.

[PA-Joe]

I would say wrong rotor. Also the cases will vary that much. You would have to weigh each case before charging and after.

[Bailey Boat]

A little late to the party but after you try/do all of the above Google "Uncle Nicks Powder Baffle Templates" and make a baffle for your measure. You'll be amazed how it evens things out.......

Best way to make one is by using thin aluminum (aluminum step flashing from Lowe's) and trace the outline from the template directly onto the alum with a ball point pen and cut it out with scissors. Bend and install as per the instructions and you're set......

[Swampman1]

My Hornady powder measure came with a baffle.

[GJSchulze]

I hear these guys talking about how some powders don't "meter" well. Maybe that's it. I use IMR 4198, I always heard the ball powders meter best. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

I've heard the same about ball powders. However, apparently a lot of ball powders start as balls and then are flattened. I use Power Pistol for 9mm and this is a flattened ball powder that meters very consistently for me.

IMR 4198 is an extruded powder that is then chopped up. This makes me think that it may have an irregular shape which decreases its ability to meter consistently.

There are also flake powders. In Europe I read that they roll powder into sheets and then chop it up. All these shapes are to vary the burn rates.

It occurs to me that powders that don't meter well might best be used for large loads where the variation is a smaller percentage of the load as opposed to pistol loads where .5 gr would be huge.

There must be a sticky somewhere about powder. Can someone give us a link to it?

[m&p45acp10+1]

GJ you are close. It is that most flake powders are used in shot shell. They tend to meter poorly in lower volume. They tend to meter more consitantly in higher volume due to enough weight pushing the powder into the larger cavity.

For example. I load .38 Special, and when I was out of my preferred powders I had to use Red Dot. It is a flake powder for shots shell. In my Lee Powder measures it metered poorly at the small volume for the .38 Special. (about 3.0 grains target weight) Spread for charge weight was all over the place (+/- .4 grains Which happens to be about the min to max range with that powder.). When I started to work up a reduced load for my .45-70 Gov't. using about 13 grains of it the larger cavity was dropping loads that were to within 1 tenth of a grain of target weight. Most of them were right on, with the rare one going under most times.

[Nick_C_S]

Gravity balance scale. Just sayin'.

[Hammerhead]

4756 meters perfectly for me.

I usually tare the scale with a sized casing + primer (roughly 68gr), charge, and check

Have you tried weighing with the scale's pan instead of with charged cases?

I only trust mechanical scales with gunpowder.

[buck460XVR]

I usually tare the scale with a sized casing + primer (roughly 68gr), charge, and check. The scale reports +/- 0.5gr pretty often.

Unless you are weighing every individual case before you charge, this is not an acceptable practice. Case weights are not that consistent. I believe this is the reason for the large variations. Why don't you just weigh every charge before putting it in the case? The binding in the drum can be from the measure "shearing" granules/flakes of powder as it rotates. Some powders are much more susceptible to this. Removal of static, and consistent throw methods help with consistency. Some powders measure better when one one uses the "double tap" method, where you tap the measure handle firmly against the stops on the upstroke and the downstroke.

[noylj]

I "assumed" he was using the same case over-and-over again.
I do this, except I pour the powder into the pan.
I've been using an electronic balance since the late '70s. It still works perfectly, but I mostly use the balance on my ChargeMaster. Never had an issue.

[skizzums]

give us an update roland, did you wipe everything down clean and use a dryer sheet? did it help out?

[serf 'rett]

I usually tare the scale…

This leads me to assume you are weighting the case, primer and powder charge together. As stated above, there will be too much weight variance between the case and primer weight. A few months ago, for kicks and giggles, I weighted 20 cases each of Remington, Blazer, Winchester and Federal 40 S&W brass. The extreme spread of the first three brands was approximately 2.1 grains, but the Federal had a spread of 5.9 grains.

Weight the powder charge before putting the charge into the case. Weighting only the powder charge eliminates the differences introduced by varying weights of other components.

[Roland13]

Guys, thanks so much for the load of helpful information. I don't usually find this kind of support and community on forums for any hobby! Now to update:

Jimdandy and a few others recommend cleaning my powder measure. This makes good sense to me, but I'm not sure how to do it best; the measure did not come with any documentation or instructions.

David, Buck, and Serf 'Rett - when using the casing as a "pan," I am zeroing and re-tareing the scale for every single charge (every new case introduced). I would never assume casings are identical in weight, down to the grain anyway.

Swampman - yes, the binding I speak of is when I activate the dispensing handle. It's an extruded powder so the "shearing" makes sense to me, I think I can learn to live with it unless it's the cause of my metering issues.

Bailey - I got a baffle with the measure, and it's installed.

This is the one I'm wondering most about - Noylj - Given the nature of the purchase and the lack of documentation or marking on the drum, I have -no idea- if I'm using a pistol or rifle drum! It looks like a pretty beefy drum and tiny mic adjustments make huge differences, so I think I might have a rifle drum installed. Does Hornady sell replacement drums? The measure seems to be designed so they can easily be swapped out.

[Nathan]

Are you raring the case you are weighing or are you taring with a different case. I do this with my progressive. I pull the case out after bell/prime, rare, put back, charge then weigh. I get +/- 0.2 gr. with pistol powders.

Variation is usually caused by a dirty measure. To clean, I disassemble, wipe down with IPA, then reassemble. Then I lube by running some graphite through, an finally by throwing 10-20 charges of powder. I don't discard the powder.

[schmellba99]

http://www.hornady.com/store/Pistol-...g-Assy-1-Each/

Make sure you have the pistol rotor and insert and not the rifle rotor and insert. A rifle insert will work, but it will not be as consistent due to the volumetric nature of powder charges.

1. Clean your powder measure - disassemble everything wipe it down with a rag soaked with non CFC brake parts cleaner, let air dry.

2. Lube up with some Hornady dry lube. Let it dry.

3. Re-assemble everything, then run a little graphite powder or moly powder through the rotor as a dry lube. Neither will affect powder performance at all.

When you are charging - do the same thing the same way every time. With extruded powders, I tap the rotor before dumping into the case. This lets the powder settle a touch more and I've found it allows much smoother operation because it eliminates shearing. Use the same range of motion and force on the down and upstroke so that you eliminate as much variance as possible.

Get a set of check weights for your scale - they don't need to be anything special, though a good set of weights is a nice thing to have, and they aren't expensive. Always make sure your scale is reading correctly - even after calibrating my Chargemaster, I like to drop a projo of known weight on the pan to verify everything is reading correctly (I don't keep a special projo for this - just grab one out of the box. If it says 62 grains on the box, the projectile better weigh pretty close to that 62 grains. If it says something like 80 or 40, then we know we have problems. But if it says 62.1 or 61.8, I know my scale is reading accurately).