Question for those who use stainless steel media

[L2R]

Just got my tumbler yesterday and did a small batch. Great results but as I rinsed the brass I found a potiential problem.

I tapped each casings on the side of the plastic bowl then visually inspected each casing for media.

I can't imagine one left inside would be a good thing. If I miss one, will the deprimer catch it? Is there any risk? I don't want to send a rod down the barrel behind the bullet.

[Vance]

I haven't had any problems with that. I decap my brass on a universal decapper first, then tumble in the stainless steel media. That way the primer pockets also get cleaned. I also use a media seperator as that is easier than doing each case individually..

[L2R]

just wondering why you go thru the extra step of depriming before cleaning.

What is wrong with cleaning, then running it thru the reloader?


now back to my original question. Has anyone ever had an issue with the media sticking or staying inside the case.

[ScottRiqui]

Well, when you tapped each casing on the side of the bowl and visually inspected all of them, did you find any stainless media in any of them?

If it's going to happen, it would have already, especially if you're tumbling them with the primers still in place.

[L2R]

inspecting 100 pcs is not even a good sampling in the world of production.
As this could have disastrous affects, I would look for data from 10s of 1000s of parts done.

To the first responder, I was trying to avoid more cost but maybe a separator is the answer to be safe.

Not trying to dis anyone just figuring that of all those out there who have done this 1000's of times, I was wondering if has been seen or done.


Thanks in advance for any insight and for your patience.

[Edward429451]

Yes it is a possibility but it shouldn't matter because you will catch it upon inspecting each case like you would normally anyway, right?

[OEF-Vet]

As Vance stated I decap first so the primer pockets get cleaned also. Just personal preference I suppose. I honestly have not tried stainless media but am intrigued and will follow this thread. Walnut works well but doesn't last forever. I do find media in my brass with walnut and corncob but this is why I inspect my brass at every stage of the process.

Redundancy helps avoid catastrophe. Yes I'm in engineering.

[L2R]

I work as a manufacturing engineer for an automotive company. Statistics are a part of understanding and eliminating defects. This media in the casing is a good example. I may be overreacting but I don't want a screw up just when I am getting started so I am looking for experience to tell me if the de primer station is the GUARANTEE to catch this or something else.

This example is a perfect example of what we do to guarantee quality at work. We are graded on PPMs or parts/million. Even if we don't make that many in a day or week. No one wants to buy a lemon. 1% defects will get you fired. We are expected not to exceed 4 defects/million this year getting past our dock door.

If you reload 10,000 bullets in a year and you allow one tenth of 1% of these to get thru then you have 10 bad bullets. I don't want 10 bullets with steel rods inside.

Redundancy is a tool to eliminating defects as mentioned earlier. Human inspections catch about 80% of defects. Not ironclad but typical. I don't and 2 bad bullets either if I make 10 and find 8.

100 parts isn't a minimum sampling. 300 is the starting point but the more you make, the more that the odds will get you.


I am not trying to educate or blow my own horn. I am trying to show that while I understand the logistics of manufacturing, I am no expert in tumbling with ss media. I am hoping that with the vast experience of others, I can get real answers.

IF the de-primer won't catch it, then maybe a plastic bushing around the pin would guarantee it finding a lost pin. The pins are 1 mm or .040 inches in diameter. A plastic bushing pressed on the de priming pin that is .020 in under the bullet inner diameter would cause the de-primer to stop prematurely and the operator would feel it in the stroke. Also there would be no additional waste of time or added value (primer and powder)


So back to the original question. Has this happened to you and how often.
Or am I being a worry wart?

[ScottRiqui]

I know a little bit about population sampling as well, but it seems irrelevant here. I'm assuming that there's no percentage of "fouled" cases small enough for you to consider it acceptable, so you're going to be stuck examining every case regardless - sampling does you no good.

To answer your original question, I *have* heard of pieces of the stainless media getting stuck in the necks of small-caliber rifle cases. But I've never heard of any media being left behind in cases where none of the dimensions are close to the length of the stainless pins.

[HJ857]

Water cohesion seems to be a factor. If wet, the pins will stick to nearly anything, including the brass. By using a media separator with half of the basket underwater, the pins loose that cohesion and fall to the bottom as you spin the separator. I would guess that a pasta colander and a bucket would work just as well. In any case it must be underwater to work.

It's working for me, but I'd like to hear other ideas.

[ScottRiqui]

I would also agitate the pins out *before* you rinse off the brass. The surfactants in the Lemishine and Dawn (if you also add Dawn) reduce the surface tension of the water and make it less likely for the pins to "stick" to the brass via cohesion.

[sc928porsche]

I bought my vibration tumblers so I wouldnt have to wash the brass.

[L2R]

857, I could not see from the sales picture what a separator would do but now that exepained it and I am on my 2nd batch, I see it's value.

I still think there is an opportunity at the deprime station to 'guarantee' no pins inside the casing with a slight modification.

I want zero defects so I have zero damage to my guns.


All in all, I am very happy with the results. I am making it sound bad but I like it the results so far and glad I went this route. Just want to do it the best way possible. Again, thanks to all.

see picture of 1st batch after 2 hours.

[Jim Watson]

I use ceramic media to wet tumble BPCR brass. (May change to steel pins so as to handle smokeless bottlenecks, too.) The same considerations apply, the ceramic bits can either mechanically jam in the case and the primer pocket, or just cling to the wet film. You have to get them out. It takes 100% inspection. A "crunch" as the decapping pin hits a missed piece of crockery is undesireable. Not much risk of leaving it in there and shooting it, though.

[Edward429451]

Yes I think you are being a worry wort. I would discourage you from attempting to mod your die and make what should be an operation that needs to be towards the K.I.S.S. principle rather than over complicating it, but I wish you luck if you wish to try that.

If you gave your extra effort to case inspection instead of die mods you could accomplish the same thing.

Statistics are nice all the way up until experience takes over. I'm in my 4th decade of reloading and I don't make as many bad rounds as you suggest is impossible to escape from. AM I 100% of course not, but I am closer to 99.99 than I am 80%.

I don't consider getting reloads to work in a new weapon consistent with your idea of bad rounds. Reliability and accuracy usually is not instantaneous with a new gun, and reliable ammo is usually a short time away from new. I think it's more accurate to say bad rounds are existing loads that you assemble and typically already work as a rule, but did not this time etc, (Wilsons crappy 47Ds notwithstanding!)

[L2R]

The first batch prompted this post.

I dumped the media and brass into a big,plastic bowl. It was a mess. It took awhile to dig out all the brass leaving the media.

On my 2nd attempt and thankfully to someone above who mentioned agitating the brass in water, I used a caliber sorter pan from midway to catch the brass and let the media fall into the pail below. This was 100% better. I sprayed the brass with a light spray of water and churned it with my other hand for just a minute. I then transferred it to a big plastic bowl.

The result was MUCH better. After 100% inspection I had maybe 10 pieces of media. I churned the brass inside a big plastic container with the towel and found 0 media. I will toss it again when I lube it so I am now good with this method.

I can live with that.

thanks all. it really did help.

[Edward429451]

Good job. You just have make 100% inspection part of your routine. In short order it will not slow you down, its just how you do things.

[SL1]

I have occassionally found a pair of the steel pins stuck in the flash hole of a case. Apparently, one or both were under-diameter. I take them out with needle-nose pliers and throw them both away. Usually, that doesn't happen after the media has been used several times, so I think that elimnating the few pins that will get stuck eventually eliminates the problem.

Those stuck media pins might bend a depriming pin on a sizing die, or even set-off a primer during seating. So, 100% visual checking is a good idea.

Because I decap before tumbling and prime off the press with a hand tool, I don't have any problems accomplishing the inspections. But, if you are the type who wants to dump batches of brass as quickly as possible from bin to bin and eventually into feed tubes on a press, media pins stuck in flash holes are probably something to think carefully about.

SL1

[Luciano]

While I have not done a specific test, I don't think a pin stuck in loaded rifle round would be disastrous unless your rounds are loaded to the absolute high, unsafe levels to start with.

[hounddawg]

seems to me all it would take to ruin a good barrel is 1 pin.

I have found that cleaning primer pockets does make a small difference in the SD of the chrono results and I now clean the primer pockets of all my LR rifle ammo. But that is for 600 and 800 yard shooting. So I don't bother with pistol ammo

[ScottRiqui]

I'm curious as to what would actually happen to a loose media pin inside a cartridge when the round is fired. The surface area of the pin is very small, regardless of its orientation, so the force applied to it from the expanding gases will be small as well. Also, unlike the bullet, there's an easy path around the pin for the gases to take. I wouldn't be surprised if the final velocity of the pin was barely a "dribble", compared to the bullet's velocity.

[hounddawg]

I'm curious as to what would actually happen to a loose media pin inside a cartridge when the round is fired. The surface area of the pin is very small, regardless of its orientation, so the force applied to it from the expanding gases will be small as well. Also, unlike the bullet, there's an easy path around the pin for the gases to take. I wouldn't be surprised if the final velocity of the pin was barely a "dribble", compared to the bullet's velocity.

if you have a borescope and a gun with a burned out barrel you could find out I suppose

[hounddawg]

was discussing this at the range yesterday. One guy had a good point. Big what if here but suppose a piece of the stainless steel mad it out of the case but only a couple of inches down the barrel and you fired another round

[Edward429451]

What if you shot one with a pin it and just as it was exiting the barrel but still touching the barrel, it was struck by lightning?!