Superformance -- Good News & Bad News

mehavey · November 13, 2011, 08:06 PM

THE FOLLOWING DISCUSSES LOADS THAT ARE NOT ONLY UNLISTED IN THE MANUALS,
BUT THEORETICALLY IN EXCESS OF THOSE LOADS THAT ARE LISTED.
THESE ARE MOST DEFINITELY NOT RECOMMENDED FOR OTHERS TO USE.

I walked into Clark's yesterday morning looking for some N560 to load under my old 243Win/Ruger M77V's "standard" 87gr HNDY VMax. As I looked over all the powders I saw Hodgdon's new "Superformance" powder supposedly developed in conjunction w/Hornady. Reading the label it advertised 3,500fps+ for a 75 HNDY-HP so I said "what the heck" and brought it home.

As many know, Superformance is so new that very little data is available for it other than to say it achieves its performance through very complex coating processes that result in a burn progression "...kinda like mixing 3031, 4350, 7828 and 4831." And in fact Hornady's 8th only shows one 30-06 load (168gr) ...and that load's advertised velocity is Looooooooow. Strange.....

The IMR website showed Superform loads for only four 243 bullets (65-80gr), but nothing for my heavier 87grV-Max. After a lot of web-searching (which told me very few people had anything nice to say about it/everybody said it was "the dirtiest powder they had ever shot"); a lot of interpolating; considerable QuickLoad playing around trying to find a "best match" for the velocity/pressure characteristics which IMR did list for the various bullets, I settled on a slowed-down version of RL-19 and a starting load of 45.5 grains to be on the safe side. (I also seat the 87VMax a full 1/10" further out than the manual, which bought me a little more pressure relief for that all-important first shot.) Then I went pressure-sign hunting with brand new brass and the Oehler -- waiting for that first barest hint of ejector mark.

Yesterday evening was a load progression of three rounds each of 45.5, 46.0, 46.5, 47.0 and 47.5. At the start, I did encounter the classic "I-don't-like-low-fill-level" velocity variations characteristic of spherical powders. (45.5gr is less than 90% fill.) But as I progressed, the variations went away. I fully expected to hit pressure signs before 47.5. Only I didn't. In fact velocities came very consistent and the groups tightened up (even if only 3 rounds).

So today I went out with a load progression of 47.5 (4rds), 47.8 (4rds), and 3 rnds each again of 48.1, 48.4, 48.7, and lastly 49.0. The results of the two 60°F days is shown below.

Note both the well-behaved velocity, and its linearity over two separate days......

This is the last 3-shot group of the day at 49.0gr:

Normally, one looks at this and mutters "anomaly." But the strange thing was that every one of the previous three groups from 47.8 through 48.7 overlaid this one precisely. So in fact this group represents a 12-shot 5/16ths group pretty well.

That's the good news.

The bad news is that I haven't found pressure sign yet.

THE PRECEDING DISCUSSED LOADS THAT ARE NOT ONLY UNLISTED IN THE MANUALS,
BUT THEORETICALLY IN EXCESS OF THOSE LOADS THAT ARE LISTED.
THESE ARE MOST DEFINITELY NOT RECOMMENDED FOR OTHERS TO USE.

Brian Pfleuger · November 13, 2011, 08:57 PM

Interesting.

How well do the QuickLoad predictions match your real velocities?

Pat T · November 13, 2011, 08:59 PM

Thanks for the report, Mehavey. I've been pondering going to one of the newer ball powders for .30-06 180 grain loads, superformance was one on the list to try. You are right about the sparseness of load data and that's why I've held back. Might just have to try this one.

mehavey · November 13, 2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

How well do the QuickLoad predictions match your real velocities?

That's the challenge.

At the high end (49.0gr/3,250fps) it behaves like ADI AR 2231 (H4831)
At the low end (45.5gr/2880fps) it reacts like Win780/N165.

That's why I'm going to have to find that high-end pressure limit empirically.
So far, brass/primers have exhibited no pressure signs -- none --
even as I look at them in group sequence going left (low) to right (high)
looking for differences.

I think this one's going to give Helmut fits trying to characterize it for QL parameters.

postscript: I found it was no dirtier than other powders. I think the problem
for the other posters is that it's an inefficient burner at low pressures,
but quite efficient at the mid-high end.

Brian Pfleuger · November 13, 2011, 09:26 PM

You must have about 1.5gr to go before you reach 100% load density?

Without pressure signs, onward and upward at least to 100%!

mehavey · November 13, 2011, 09:28 PM

I'm a devout coward

but next weekend I'll look under the bed a bit further.

castnblast · November 14, 2011, 10:11 PM

Great post and thanks for the data. Another powder to try is hodgdon hybrid V 100 for the poster talking about the ball powders.

November 13, 2011, 08:06 PM	#1
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,210	Superformance -- Good News & Bad News THE FOLLOWING DISCUSSES LOADS THAT ARE NOT ONLY UNLISTED IN THE MANUALS, BUT THEORETICALLY IN EXCESS OF THOSE LOADS THAT ARE LISTED. THESE ARE MOST DEFINITELY NOT RECOMMENDED FOR OTHERS TO USE. I walked into Clark's yesterday morning looking for some N560 to load under my old 243Win/Ruger M77V's "standard" 87gr HNDY VMax. As I looked over all the powders I saw Hodgdon's new "Superformance" powder supposedly developed in conjunction w/Hornady. Reading the label it advertised 3,500fps+ for a 75 HNDY-HP so I said "what the heck" and brought it home. As many know, Superformance is so new that very little data is available for it other than to say it achieves its performance through very complex coating processes that result in a burn progression "...kinda like mixing 3031, 4350, 7828 and 4831." And in fact Hornady's 8th only shows one 30-06 load (168gr) ...and that load's advertised velocity is Looooooooow. Strange..... The IMR website showed Superform loads for only four 243 bullets (65-80gr), but nothing for my heavier 87grV-Max. After a lot of web-searching (which told me very few people had anything nice to say about it/everybody said it was "the dirtiest powder they had ever shot"); a lot of interpolating; considerable QuickLoad playing around trying to find a "best match" for the velocity/pressure characteristics which IMR did list for the various bullets, I settled on a slowed-down version of RL-19 and a starting load of 45.5 grains to be on the safe side. (I also seat the 87VMax a full 1/10" further out than the manual, which bought me a little more pressure relief for that all-important first shot.) Then I went pressure-sign hunting with brand new brass and the Oehler -- waiting for that first barest hint of ejector mark. Yesterday evening was a load progression of three rounds each of 45.5, 46.0, 46.5, 47.0 and 47.5. At the start, I did encounter the classic "I-don't-like-low-fill-level" velocity variations characteristic of spherical powders. (45.5gr is less than 90% fill.) But as I progressed, the variations went away. I fully expected to hit pressure signs before 47.5. Only I didn't. In fact velocities came very consistent and the groups tightened up (even if only 3 rounds). So today I went out with a load progression of 47.5 (4rds), 47.8 (4rds), and 3 rnds each again of 48.1, 48.4, 48.7, and lastly 49.0. The results of the two 60°F days is shown below. Note both the well-behaved velocity, and its linearity over two separate days...... This is the last 3-shot group of the day at 49.0gr: Normally, one looks at this and mutters "anomaly." But the strange thing was that every one of the previous three groups from 47.8 through 48.7 overlaid this one precisely. So in fact this group represents a 12-shot 5/16ths group pretty well. That's the good news. The bad news is that I haven't found pressure sign yet. THE PRECEDING DISCUSSED LOADS THAT ARE NOT ONLY UNLISTED IN THE MANUALS, BUT THEORETICALLY IN EXCESS OF THOSE LOADS THAT ARE LISTED. THESE ARE MOST DEFINITELY NOT RECOMMENDED FOR OTHERS TO USE. Last edited by mehavey; November 14, 2011 at 08:31 AM.

November 13, 2011, 08:57 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,694	Interesting. How well do the QuickLoad predictions match your real velocities? __________________ https://ecommercearms.com I am the owner/operator! Ask me for custom prices! No sales tax outside CO!

November 13, 2011, 09:26 PM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,694	You must have about 1.5gr to go before you reach 100% load density? Without pressure signs, onward and upward at least to 100%! __________________ https://ecommercearms.com I am the owner/operator! Ask me for custom prices! No sales tax outside CO!

November 13, 2011, 08:59 PM	#3
Pat T Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2009 Location: NW PA Posts: 109	Thanks for the report, Mehavey. I've been pondering going to one of the newer ball powders for .30-06 180 grain loads, superformance was one on the list to try. You are right about the sparseness of load data and that's why I've held back. Might just have to try this one.

November 13, 2011, 09:28 PM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,210	I'm a devout coward but next weekend I'll look under the bed a bit further.

November 14, 2011, 10:11 PM	#7
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	Great post and thanks for the data. Another powder to try is hodgdon hybrid V 100 for the poster talking about the ball powders.