Some questions on case prep

[Ervin]

There's got to be an easier way to full length size a case. Ive used everything from Hoppe's #9 to WD40 to make sure the (HXP 30-06) cases go into the die and retract easily but no luck. 4th stuck case in as many months.
(the brass is run through a tumbler which takes care of the oils afterwards, it dries them up very well)

Im shooting a bolt action service rifle with a precise chamber and I now need to push the case neck down a bit so it chambers smoothly. Ive isolated the problem and Im sure its the height of the neck now, its nothing else.

The press is a Lee anniversary with basic dies, if I fully push the case into the die during decapping and resizing it'll most often get stuck.

So, if there are better dies from other companies that will fit a Lee press, please tell me. Its costing me just to deprime fired cases.


Also, has any research been done as to what a 1 grain of charge difference would mean at 100 and 200yds?
Info on differences in velocities, pressures and groupings would be helpful.

[Ultravox]

Have you tried a real case lube? WD-40 and Hoppes #9 are not really lubes.

RCBS case lube and a lube pad works for me.

Others will chime in on what works for them I'm sure. But I have never seen someone suggest using WD-40 or Hoppes as a case lube.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yeah, get some real case lube. Gander Mountain, Bass Pro, Cabela's all have them in stock and probably most any local place that deals in reloading supplies. Doing otherwise is not worth the hassle. I use a Hornady (I think) variety in a small tub that was like $8. It's enough to last me several years.

Your question on the charge changes affecting ballistics can only be answered directly by shooting bullets. Different powders, bullets, OAL, etc will all have an effect. The only way to get even a cursory idea of the theoretical change in trajectory without shooting would be either QuickLoad or tediously entering data from a load manual into a ballistic calculator. QuickLoad would likely be more accurate, but nothing beats holes in paper.

Nothing will directly predict group size except shooting bullets.

[AllenJ]

Ervin,

You are using oil instead of lube, you're lucky you have not had more stuck cases. The only lube I have used in 30+ years of reloading is RCBS and so far I have never had a stuck case. I have however used to much lube and got case dents, so be careful as a little goes a long way.

[NWPilgrim]

Also, has any research been done as to what a 1 grain of charge difference would mean at 100 and 200yds?
Info on differences in velocities, pressures and groupings would be helpful.

Richard Lee discusses this a bit in his reloading manual. IIRC, he found that within the small range of min-max loads for a given powder the pressure and velocities increase linearly with powder charge. So if a manual gives the velocities at the minimum load charge and the maximum, then you can find the in-between changes as well. Say a certain table entry shows a range of 5 grains, from 40 gr - 45 gr, and the velocities are 2,500 fps - 3,000 fps (difference of 500 fps). Therefore, a 1 gr increase from 40 gr to 41 gr should result in a velocity increase of 100 fps to 2,600 fps. [ETA: WARNING: This is only an EXAMPLE of the relationship. DO NOT increase 1 gr to get 100 fps!!!!

In actuality, the pressure and velocity increase are some sort of curves as volume and friction and other factors change at different load and velocity levels. But within a relatively narrow powder charge range you can approximate the other changes as a linear relationship. I believe he mentions that some powders have a flatter curve and used H4895 as an example of a powder with a very long linear change.

[firewrench044]

I agree with the others, real case lub is what you need
I use RCBS lub and lub pad, and have had no problems
with stuck cases

WD40 is a penatrant not a good lubricant
Hope's #9 is a copper solvent ( it cleans copper from your
gun barrel ) it is not a lubricant

after sizing your brass you will need to trim it to the proper length
do some reading on " case trimming "and " trim legnth "

adding or subtracting 1. gr of powder in your case powder charge
will make a big diferance

[Ervin]

Well...I'll be...
that stuff actually works.
The cases chamber beautifully now.

[Ervin]

Pilgrim can you go into detail about 4895 powders? Thats all I use.
When you say linear do you mean it has a steady powder burn through the barrel or something else?

From what I gathered in the past, 4895 was a faster burning powder meant for gas op rifles. I stopped using 4350 "bolt action powders" in bolt actions since the bullet was falling around 35% faster (lower velocities) in comparison to 4895 loads.

[NWPilgrim]

What I mean is that the pressure and velocity increase at the same rate as you increase the powder, within the load table range.

Over a large range the relationship of velocity to powder may be a curve, with small increase of velocity for large increases of powder, then at some point it becomes more linear same % increase in velocity as for powder. Finally at some loading the pressure/velocity is going to spike much more with even small increase of powder. And perhaps with even more powder you reach a point of diminishing returns where velocity barely increases with even large increases in powder.

But reloading manuals stop the maximum load to be less than the "spiking" point in the pressure curve. That is why you seem some powders table maximum set at a point where the pressure is still a few thousand PSI below SAAMI maximum. For that powder/cartridge even a tiny increase in powder will start giving dramatically more pressure beyond the SAAMI max.

So within the min-max range of loading manual tables the pressure and velocity should increase at the same rate you increase the powder.

Linear relationship means a constant rate of change. One for one, or two for one, or three for one, etc. Draswn as a graph of velocity versus powder charge it is a straight sloped line, thus "linear." A 1% increase of powder gives a one percent increase in velocity.

A non-linear relationship is a something where the rate of change in one factor gets greater or lesser with each increment in the other. Thus, at one level powder charge you may have a 1% increase of powder giving 1% increase in velocity. At some other powder charge level you may have a 1% increase of powder giving 3% increase in velocity, or .5% increase. When you graph velocity versus powder charge in this case you get some sort of curved line.

Often though, even with a non-linear relationship, within a narrow range the curve is flat enough that you can approximate it as a straight line, that is, linear. This is what Richard Lee discovered in his testing, at least within the typical range of powder charges listed in handloading data tables. When you go below, or certainly above the listed data then the relationship of powder and velocity may become unpredictable, or at least more dramatic.

Just because H4895 has a longer "flat" aspect to its powder-velocity curve does not mean it is suitable for all cartridges. It is a perfect powder for M1 Garand gas systems, and gives lower than "normal" velocities for the .30-06 (2,700 fps for 150 gr bullet). Hunting ammo for the .30-06 will use slower powders like IMR4350 or H414 and will achieve higher velocities for the same pressure max.

The concept is simple, but not to be confused with pressure and velocity changes that ocurr as the bullet moves down the barrel. There you are comparing velocity to position in the barrel for a single powder charge. I am referring to the muzzle velocity (one specific position of the bullet from the case) versus various powder charges.

Sorry if I am not writing clearly. I am writing paragraphs to describe a single sentence in my head.

[PA-Joe]

If you reload a lot you can get electrical wire pull gease. Most major hardware stores will have it.