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Old December 31, 1999, 03:06 AM   #1
George Hill
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Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
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Okay - it wasnt a that bad a day... but The Ejector on my Bushmaster Shorty broke and I had a bunch of failures as a result. Sigh

Here is the deal... I went with Caeca Invidia Es and Tank Girl to do a little shooting.
I come out with the little AR and fire off a mag and let Caeca have a go. He fires a bunch and then stops cause of a jam. Okay... No biggie. He fires a few more and another jam. Slap Pull Observe Release Tap Squeeze. Fires a few more. Tank Girl fires it and of course it jams. Pretty soon its only firing one shot at a time. I break it down and find the Ejector Plunger aint plunging.
Once I got it home I took the bolt down and was able to fix it. Well - for a quick fix I swapped bolts with a spare I have. If your into ARs - you should have a collection of small spares... pins, springs, bolts and such... basically enough to make 3 or 4 new rifles if you have the recievers... But I digress. I function checked it with a mag ful of blanks and that did the trick.
Anyways. Caeca Invidia Es had his new gun... A slick 10-22 that shot very well. a couple failures to feed that I think will smooth out the more he shoots it.
The HK USP that he had functioned flawlessly and shot point of aim every time. Damn good thing to - because that was my USP! He let me fire it again... I shot with it just like I used to. Good gun the USP. The Springfield ran great too. Printed a 2 inch group with little effort. The USP printed about the same with about NO effort. Still have to get used to the TRP.
The AR (when it fired) printed about a 1 inch group... I dont think we printed the 10-22 but I bet it could have done a little better.
Caeca Invidia Es is rather new to pistols - and this was his second time shooting his. I can honestly say he did very well. The .40 can be brisk and needs some getting used to.
He was quite at home with the AR - which makes me think he would have done well in the Light Infantry.
He noted that the AR "Sounded Weird". And in fact it does. Unlike other rifles - the AR has a long buffer device... basicaly a long spring in the stovk that the bolt carrier and buffer ride on. Hence the "SPRONG" sound that come with each shot. That sound is not really audible to anyone other than the shooter.
Tank Girl was hesitant about the AR - and yet took to the HK USP and the 1911 pretty well.
Noticable flinch occured - which is natural... I even flinched a little on 2 shots before I realized it. Of course - I am not sure if it was a flinch or a shiver. It was quite cold.

Nice area to shoot in... Near the Pony Express trail - I had Jumped into the area many many years ago and busted an ankle. So Busting my Bushmaster was rather ironic. Ankle STILL aches once in awhile...

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old December 31, 1999, 09:32 PM   #2
Bud Helms
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 13,155
Mr. Moderator,

Since you are an AR man, I seek advice.

I had an opportunity to purchase an AR-15 some three (?) years back, from an local gun club member, when the assault weapons scare started and the run on ugly guns was in full swing. I'm glad I didn't buy then, but I have since had this creeping desire for a "black rifle".

I recently went to Armalite's web site and perused their wares. Just window shopping. What caught my eye was the .243 and .308 versions !! Now I'm really interested !

What do you know about the different chamberings for the AR pattern? I know the accuracy potential is there, but do they hold up? Reliable in function?

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Old January 1, 2000, 06:25 AM   #3
George Hill
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Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
sensop - Some good questions there.
The .308 versions are not really the same rifle - its a bigger version all the way around. I dont know anything about the .243 variant. .223 is a good round for many applications. Just not for Deer.
Armalite is a good firm. They make good good guns.
ARs are generally pretty good - but they can have quirks. Love them or Leave them.
Though right now I would be willing to trade mine straight across for a folding stock AK-47 and call it good.
Well... depends on the AK...
ARs are easy to work on and I got mine fixed in about 1 minute. They can be as reliable as you make them... Like a marriage.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old January 1, 2000, 01:34 PM   #4
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Join Date: February 15, 1999
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When will the Utah Subcommittee of TFL be meeting again? I'd love to get in on the action.

Mike in Am. Fork.
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Old January 1, 2000, 04:37 PM   #5
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George- re: "sounded weird"..I've heard that best described as the sound of a typewriter being thrown down the stairs.
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Old January 2, 2000, 12:47 AM   #6
George Hill
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Join Date: October 14, 1998
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Hmmm... Next Meeting?
I dont know. We dont have one schedualed yet.
But we could plan one to meet over there near A.F. @ maybe "The Shooting Range".

Lets look at an Official Meeting Time say - near the End of this month. Give every body a chance to plan for it if they wanna come.
I am already going to the Shot Show in Vegas. Thats soaked up all my gun money for the month.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old January 5, 2000, 10:51 PM   #7
Jake 98c/11b
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Join Date: November 25, 1999
Posts: 471
Just to let you know I was at our old range and I ran into an old buddy who is now an adjunct staff member at Gunsight. He and I will be running drills once a week or so if we can work out our scheduals. Too bad you ran off before the fun began. I will let you know how it works out, if it works out. It will be a big help at my guard unit, I have been tasked with remedial marksmanship training for the officers. I don't care for most of our officers, they don't take direction well. Come to think of it I don't play well with others myself.

[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited January 06, 2000).]
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Old January 6, 2000, 09:37 AM   #8
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George, still a bad day at the range is better than a good day at work!

The ejectors sometimes get stuck back with brass shavings in the AR15. Soft brass or whatever. I try to stick with US made ammo in mine. A good rule of thumb is, if you won't drink the water of a country, don't fire their ammunition either!

Another cause could be stiff lube since it was cold. Good luck on getting your tool back into fighting shape!

Sensop: The 243/308 rifles are called AR10, although they look like AR15s they are built to a different scale. The discussions on are very good to find out about these rifles.

My take is, the AR10 is not as good as an AR15. One of the reasons is magazines, very hard to find, unlike AR15 mags. The AR10 uses either a proprietary mag from Armalite, or they sell a conversion kit to convert a M14 GI mag to an AR10 mag, or you can send them your M14 mag and $55, and Armalite will convert your mag for you.

The spare parts are not as prevalent as the AR15 parts, either, though some may be interchangeable. I would stick to the AR15 for this pattern of rifle. HTH

Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG

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Old January 7, 2000, 02:01 AM   #9
George Hill
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Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
You know - That may be it... I have not really looked at the bolt yet - just swapped it out. hmmm... now I wanna go home and check it out.

The water... thats a good one!

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old January 7, 2000, 07:16 AM   #10
George Hill
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Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Looked at this on the Bushmaster webpage:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>4. FAILURE TO EJECT: This looks much the same as failure to extract, except that the fired case is removed from
the chamber. The bolt will either jam the fired case back into the locking lugs on the barrel extension (crushing it), or
pick up a round from the magazine and try to stuff both of them into the chamber at the same time (looks like a
double-feed, except one of the cases is fired). There are a few possibilities as to the cause of this problem, and one is
the ejector. For whatever reason, the ejector is weak or sticking and just not clearing the round out of the receiver. A
good cleaning might solve the problem, or it may require replacing parts. Try the cleaning first. The other is that the
extractor is letting go prematurely. A new extractor spring will usually solve this right away. Lastly, the bolt carrier
might not be traveling back far enough, but if it is in fact picking up a new round from the magazine, this isn't the
problem. If it isn't picking up a new round, you probably have a gas leak somewhere. The best thing to do is to call us.
We can go over it with you in detail, on a case by case basis. Our Customer Service number is 1-800-883-6229 or
207-892-3594 (Mon- Fri, 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM EST).[/quote]

First thing mentioned is a good cleaning...
Okay - I am convinced.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old January 9, 2000, 08:24 PM   #11
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Join Date: October 13, 1998
Location: Arizona.
Posts: 853
Had the failure to eject problem with my own Bushmaster shorty. Tried doing the basic cleaning, no dice. Tried trading out the bolt, and it still didn't work. Threw up hands in disgust, damning all ARs, and their designer.

I finally went through it with a fine tooth comb, and the help of USMC Col. Bob Young (ret), and the ULTRA detail cleaning did the trick. This gun is just WAY more dirt sensitive than my other AR15s, so I keep close tabs on it now. I clean it EVERY time I shoot it. I clean it if it hasn't been shot. I clean it WHILE I am shooting it.
The problem has not remanifested since the hypercleaning strategy was put into effect.
I still don't trust it though...

It may well be the ideal weapon for Martha Stewart, but not for me, thanks.
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Old January 10, 2000, 03:45 AM   #12
George Hill
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Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,546
Soaked the bolt in Hopps #9 to get out any carbon in the ejector - then after a few hours of that... blowing it out with high pressure air - soaked over night in copper solvent - blew that out too...
a drop of my oil of the day...
Seems to be working better than new now.
Martha Stewart's AR? LOL!

Yeah - perhaps...
I am looking at other rifle options now.
The new rifle will have to be:
1. .223
2. Uses USGI M-16 type mags
3. In a "Carbine" length
4. Not a Ruger
5. Available for trade in or trade across for.

My other AR - a Bushmaster long barrled flat top doesnt go out so much. It hasnt hiccuped at all - yet. but I have only fired MAYBE 200 rounds through it.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Old January 11, 2000, 12:25 PM   #13
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George, MGB, when the Utah subcommittee of TFL meets again, send me an e-mail. I would like to actually meet some of you guys in person.

Larry in Logan
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Old January 11, 2000, 01:48 PM   #14
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Location: Denver
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Funny that you don't see AK owners with a "collection of small parts" though I did pick up a spare firing pin for mine... hmmm WHY IS THAT???

I've seen all KINDS of problems with AR's and most of them are due to cleaning and built up "kit" guns from parts. Would be MUCH better to have a colt, at least you knew where all the parts came from.


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