45 acp die question

EmptyHull · July 8, 2011, 08:27 AM

I have recently started reloading the above on the Lee 3 die setup. I loaded some 230gr cast last pm and when I cycled through my 1911, I had some bullet movement. I do not want to "crimp" any more so should I buy the Lee FCD to see if that helps? I was told that the bullet seating/crimp die should work just fine when I bought the 3 die set and was discouraged from the 4 die set. Thanks, Tim

wncchester · July 8, 2011, 09:04 AM

'Some' bullet movement doesn't tell us much. How are the moving - in or out - and, approximately how much? If they are feeding and chambering it probably doesn't matter. Crimp is not supposed to do a lot for bullet grip except in response to recoil. The primary grip should be with a snug (tight) fit in the case mouth.

The tool used to produce a crimp isn't really important except as it is your preference. All that matters to the ammo is the end result and any crimper correctly used can accomplish the same result.

EmptyHull · July 8, 2011, 10:48 AM

I loaded OAL to 1.252" and noticed after I cycled it from magazine to chamber the OAL was like 1.24". Tim

Robert Palermo · July 8, 2011, 11:07 AM

The question is how much are you crimping now that you don't want to crimp more?
The taper crimp should be at .469 at the case moth.
The Lee 3rd seat/crimp die may be a roll crimp/ seat die in which case you should get a sperate taper crimp die. This is common in 3 die sets even for auto pistol calibers.
stay away from the FCD as its not necessary if you are loading correctly.

Spammy_H · July 8, 2011, 11:31 AM

My understanding is that the 3rd die in the Lee 3 die sets is a bullet seater, and does not perform any crimping at all -- it simply seats the bullet by pushing it down into the case - I don't believe you will get any crimping function from it. I know that Hornady makes a seating/crimp die, but Lee's doesn't do that.

The Lee Factory Crimp Die acts on the case mouth, which is what give you the crimp.

I would recommend for either auto or revolver rounds crimping (taper for auto & roll for revolver). The Lee FCD is great and very simple to setup / adjust. Set it once and forget.

moxie · July 8, 2011, 02:20 PM

One rarely sees questions like this from RCBS users.

Scimmia · July 8, 2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

My understanding is that the 3rd die in the Lee 3 die sets is a bullet seater, and does not perform any crimping at all -- it simply seats the bullet by pushing it down into the case - I don't believe you will get any crimping function from it.

Where did you get that information? They seem to crimp for me, and Lee refers to it in many places as a seating and crimp die.

EmptyHull · July 8, 2011, 06:39 PM

I just reloaded a dummy round and had a 0.013" movement of the bullet inward after the bullet was cycled off the mag and into the chamber. Do you think the Lee FCD would be in order? Tim

Spammy_H · July 8, 2011, 06:44 PM

I may be wrong, but I thought that when I took it apart, it appears to only seat. I'm open to criticism.

Tim R · July 8, 2011, 07:07 PM

If the re sized brass is not holding the bullet in place the brass may be worn out or you are belling way too much. When loading lead I do like a bigger bell so the bullet base is not deformed during the seating process. Since 45 ACP hed spaces on the mouth of the case you will need to remove the bell with a taper crimp which should be part of your seating die. The crimp is not meant to be the sole thing holding the bullet in place. I've been treloading pistol a long time with RCBS carbides and have never used a Lee FCD.

Shootest · July 8, 2011, 07:11 PM

For handguns I like the Lee FCD and get the nicest crimp from them, never used them for rifle though. On the other hand I don’t see how applying more crimp from a FCD would be any better than applying more crimp from a seat die.

CherokeeT · July 8, 2011, 08:55 PM

Forget the Lee FCD for 45 ACP cast lead bullets, not needed if loaded properely. OK, seems the neck tension is not holding the bullet as it should so that means it not being sized sufficiently or the expander is expanding too much. Measure the inside diameter of a sized case, is it smaller than .450 ? If so, then expand the case and measure it again, is it smaller than .450 ? If so, now bell the case for seating the bullet and measure again, is it smaller than .450 ? If it passes all these, then next problem may be canting the bullet in the seating process. The crimp should just remove the bell put on the case mouth for bullet seating, should measure .469-.471". just my opinion.

dunerjeff · July 8, 2011, 10:32 PM

The Lee seater die I believe is a seater/crimp so when the bullet reaches correct depth the crimp part brings the bell down .You can crimp tighter to hold the bullet more securely but very minimal and rightfully should be done with caution.Too much can raise pressures and depending how close to max you are it could be badddd. The RCBS does both in one, but I got Dillon crimp dies seperate ,I tried several different test loads where I seated/crimped in one set-up, and crimped seperate and most groups were tighter by crimping seperate.Mostly got rid of "fliers that I kept getting where 1 or 2 bullets would suddenly be an inch or so off the rest.

July 8, 2011, 08:27 AM	#1
EmptyHull Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 145	45 acp die question I have recently started reloading the above on the Lee 3 die setup. I loaded some 230gr cast last pm and when I cycled through my 1911, I had some bullet movement. I do not want to "crimp" any more so should I buy the Lee FCD to see if that helps? I was told that the bullet seating/crimp die should work just fine when I bought the 3 die set and was discouraged from the 4 die set. Thanks, Tim

July 8, 2011, 09:04 AM	#2
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	'Some' bullet movement doesn't tell us much. How are the moving - in or out - and, approximately how much? If they are feeding and chambering it probably doesn't matter. Crimp is not supposed to do a lot for bullet grip except in response to recoil. The primary grip should be with a snug (tight) fit in the case mouth. The tool used to produce a crimp isn't really important except as it is your preference. All that matters to the ammo is the end result and any crimper correctly used can accomplish the same result.

July 8, 2011, 10:48 AM	#3
EmptyHull Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 145	I loaded OAL to 1.252" and noticed after I cycled it from magazine to chamber the OAL was like 1.24". Tim

July 8, 2011, 11:07 AM	#4
Robert Palermo Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: Home of the Steelers Posts: 56	The question is how much are you crimping now that you don't want to crimp more? The taper crimp should be at .469 at the case moth. The Lee 3rd seat/crimp die may be a roll crimp/ seat die in which case you should get a sperate taper crimp die. This is common in 3 die sets even for auto pistol calibers. stay away from the FCD as its not necessary if you are loading correctly.

July 8, 2011, 11:31 AM	#5
Spammy_H Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2009 Posts: 220	My understanding is that the 3rd die in the Lee 3 die sets is a bullet seater, and does not perform any crimping at all -- it simply seats the bullet by pushing it down into the case - I don't believe you will get any crimping function from it. I know that Hornady makes a seating/crimp die, but Lee's doesn't do that. The Lee Factory Crimp Die acts on the case mouth, which is what give you the crimp. I would recommend for either auto or revolver rounds crimping (taper for auto & roll for revolver). The Lee FCD is great and very simple to setup / adjust. Set it once and forget.

July 8, 2011, 02:20 PM	#6
moxie Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: TX Posts: 513	One rarely sees questions like this from RCBS users.

July 8, 2011, 06:39 PM	#8
EmptyHull Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 145	I just reloaded a dummy round and had a 0.013" movement of the bullet inward after the bullet was cycled off the mag and into the chamber. Do you think the Lee FCD would be in order? Tim

July 8, 2011, 06:44 PM	#9
Spammy_H Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2009 Posts: 220	I may be wrong, but I thought that when I took it apart, it appears to only seat. I'm open to criticism.

July 8, 2011, 07:07 PM	#10
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	If the re sized brass is not holding the bullet in place the brass may be worn out or you are belling way too much. When loading lead I do like a bigger bell so the bullet base is not deformed during the seating process. Since 45 ACP hed spaces on the mouth of the case you will need to remove the bell with a taper crimp which should be part of your seating die. The crimp is not meant to be the sole thing holding the bullet in place. I've been treloading pistol a long time with RCBS carbides and have never used a Lee FCD.

July 8, 2011, 07:11 PM	#11
Shootest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 722	For handguns I like the Lee FCD and get the nicest crimp from them, never used them for rifle though. On the other hand I don’t see how applying more crimp from a FCD would be any better than applying more crimp from a seat die.

July 8, 2011, 08:55 PM	#12
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	Forget the Lee FCD for 45 ACP cast lead bullets, not needed if loaded properely. OK, seems the neck tension is not holding the bullet as it should so that means it not being sized sufficiently or the expander is expanding too much. Measure the inside diameter of a sized case, is it smaller than .450 ? If so, then expand the case and measure it again, is it smaller than .450 ? If so, now bell the case for seating the bullet and measure again, is it smaller than .450 ? If it passes all these, then next problem may be canting the bullet in the seating process. The crimp should just remove the bell put on the case mouth for bullet seating, should measure .469-.471". just my opinion.

July 8, 2011, 10:32 PM	#13
dunerjeff Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 440	The Lee seater die I believe is a seater/crimp so when the bullet reaches correct depth the crimp part brings the bell down .You can crimp tighter to hold the bullet more securely but very minimal and rightfully should be done with caution.Too much can raise pressures and depending how close to max you are it could be badddd. The RCBS does both in one, but I got Dillon crimp dies seperate ,I tried several different test loads where I seated/crimped in one set-up, and crimped seperate and most groups were tighter by crimping seperate.Mostly got rid of "fliers that I kept getting where 1 or 2 bullets would suddenly be an inch or so off the rest.