What Happens To Brass Cases Past Their Servicable Life?

UtopiaTexasG19 · July 5, 2011, 03:51 PM

What exactly can happen to brass shell cases that have been reloaded too many times? Besides obvious visual cracks or separation how do you measure case thickness where you cannot reach or visually see? How dangerous are the results when a case separates upon firing? Anyone have pictures or personal experience with case failure? I have some "once fired" brass cases on order but realistically know some may have been re-loaded many times. Especially those from semi automatics. Thanks...

Steel Talon · July 5, 2011, 04:02 PM

As you said separation and cracks.. When it comes to 45 acp brass "straight wall" pistol brass it will normally crack. However case separation with a .223 while chambered can result in catastrophic explosion.

Your best defense is visual inspection for stress bands on the brass.. or you can create a feeler gauge from a straightened paper clip,with one end filed to a point and bent into a "L" shape insert into empty brass move up and down gently the point will pick up many separation problems that are beggining.

Speer manuals are my favorite for reloading how to there will be pictures and advice on separation issues.

Other than that for me if Im not sure of the piece in question I toss it into the recycle bucket.

dahermit · July 5, 2011, 04:06 PM

You should specify if you are asking about rifle or handgun brass. They have two different failure modes. The handgun brass case will usually get a mouth split that eventually all in the lot of cases that have been fired the same number of times will soon get.
Rifle brass however, usually does not get mouth splits but thins at place adjacent to where the walls of the case meet the solid head (inside the case). The popular practice of finding those "incipient head separations" is to bend the end of a paper clip 90 degrees use it to feel for a groove around the inside circumference of the case where the side walls meet that solid head.

603Country · July 5, 2011, 05:01 PM

I just tossed away about 100 260 Remington cases (made by Norma). Up until now I never had any problem with them, but I had shot all but about 10 of them when I decided to go ahead and shoot the rest of them, resize them and check the neck thickness. To my surprise, about 25% of the cases had split necks. As I had shot them over the last 6 months, I had just put the cases back in the ammo box (neck down) and hadn't checked them as they were fired. They weren't loaded more than 5 times, so this was unexpected. As for other cases, I had one split neck on a new Hornady case (223 that was reloaded twice), but no splits on Winchester (220), Remington (270), or Nosler (223). And, if memory is correct, I had one or maybe 2 split necks on some Norma 220 cases that were loaded about 8 or 9 times and have since been 'retired'.

In pistol cases, I only load 38 and 357. Seems like the old PMC cases used to split at the mouth pretty regularly, so I culled them out. Maybe newer PMC cases are better made, but I don't have any new cases by anybody.

UtopiaTexasG19 · July 5, 2011, 07:39 PM

So what is the current wisdom of trying to extract part of a broken case left in the rifle chamber? I have only found one post so far in the archives touting a bent piece of wire but I wonder if a thin screwdriver bent 90 degrees right at the tip might be a bit more stout? Heating the tip first with a acetylene torch would let one bend just a tiny part of the tip. I've made similiar tools for rebuilding Ford Model T's and extracting parts fallen in places where the should not be!

William T. Watts · July 5, 2011, 08:20 PM

I do not think a home made tool is suitable for extracting a case from a rifle chamber, it may be possible for a bore brush to be pushed partially thru a case lodged in the chamber and pull the case out providing it is a bolt gun. William

dahermit · July 5, 2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

So what is the current wisdom of trying to extract part of a broken case left in the rifle chamber? I have only found one post so far in the archives touting a bent piece of wire but I wonder if a thin screwdriver bent 90 degrees right at the tip might be a bit more stout? Heating the tip first with a acetylene torch would let one bend just a tiny part of the tip. I've made similiar tools for rebuilding Ford Model T's and extracting parts fallen in places where the should not be!

Depending upon the cartridge, there are commercial broken shell removers. When I was shooting NRA High Power matches, it was routine to have one in my equipment box for 30-06 (M1 Garand).
I have seen broken shell extractors for .308, .303 British also.
If you do not want to spring for broken shell extractor, the post above mentions using a cleaning brush and rod. I have heard of that working. If it was stuck very hard, a person could push a cotton plug down to near where the case was stuck, pour in some melted Cerosafe (for making chamber casts), and push it out from the muzzle when the Cerosafe cools.
But no method is going to be as easy or as fast and a broken shell extractor.

Jim243 · July 5, 2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

broken shell extractor

+++1

Jim

William T. Watts · July 5, 2011, 10:49 PM

I agree with dahermit about using the proper tool for the job, I have a GI shell casing tool that was missing a piece that I fabricated that has never been used. Non the less I have it if it is ever needed, usually three to four firings and I pitch the brass into my recycle bucket and call it done. I've been collecting brass for years and have plenty for the rest of my shooting days! William

Colorado Redneck · July 5, 2011, 10:57 PM

I had a case separation on a 22 hornet rifle a couple of years back. I first tried an oversize bore brush (25 calibre). That failed.

Then I tried screwing an easy out into the case to loosen it. That failed.

Then I packed wet toilet paper into the barrel with the bollt closed. After letting it set for a while, I opened the bolt and tried pushing the paper out the action end of the barrel. That failed. ( Covered the bolt with something, as this method was suggested by a co-worker that has seen it used when a hunting partner encountered this problem out in the boonies. The issue for me was that the 22 hornet is a bottle shaped cartridge.)

Then I tried screwing a tap into the stuck case. That failed.

Then I took it to a good smith. $120 later it was fixed.

The smith polished the chamber, and told me there was some roughness that may have contibuted.

Good luck!

Don P · July 6, 2011, 11:24 AM

Crush, melt down, and make lamps.

Clifford L. Hughes · July 6, 2011, 06:48 PM

Utopia Texas:

Let me share with you an experience that I had. I wanted to know how many times that a pistol cartridge could be reloaded. I took once fired .41 magnum cases to the range with my reloading press. I loaded the cases to full power and I started shooting. I believe that the cases were Remington. The first case neck spiit on firing number seven. The last case split on firing forty-three. This was fourty five years ago and my notes are lost but as well as I can remember the twenty-five cases lasted for four-hundred and seventy firings.

Semper Fi.

Ginnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

rogn · July 6, 2011, 11:38 PM

lLong ago and faraway , I used to compete extensively at bench rest. One of my rifles was a peculular wildcat and required extensive reforming from 308 BR brass. I used them as long as they were accurate. I have fired some of those cases over 100 times at full bore. Case mouths would split if not periodically anealed. The primers would be easier to seat, but I think that was from wear in the pockets, just because of the priming, depriming operations.

Dapperdan · July 7, 2011, 08:41 AM

Primer pockets on my rifle and pistol brass begin to get loose long before I get splits. This is not always the case, but generally so. I put them in a container that eventually goes to the scrap dealers, along with brass that I no longer have guns for, or military rifle cases that I don't want to fool with. This may seem extravagant to some, but I shoot at a public range and usually can find enough good brass The exception is 223 or uncommon calibers. The 223's most people are shooting these days is usually steel-cased or has military crimp, in other words, whatever they can get in bulk for cheapo! Don't know what brass is bringing these days, but, a few years ago, it was $3 a pound. It's gone down some, I know.. I once brought in 50 lbs. and got over $100., but it takes a lot of cases! I don't make a habit of scarfing up brass at the range that I can't use, others may want it, t'ain't fair. I have found that nickel cases don't last as well as brass from a splitting standpoint. Best wishes, all.

July 5, 2011, 03:51 PM	#1
UtopiaTexasG19 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 743	What Happens To Brass Cases Past Their Servicable Life? What exactly can happen to brass shell cases that have been reloaded too many times? Besides obvious visual cracks or separation how do you measure case thickness where you cannot reach or visually see? How dangerous are the results when a case separates upon firing? Anyone have pictures or personal experience with case failure? I have some "once fired" brass cases on order but realistically know some may have been re-loaded many times. Especially those from semi automatics. Thanks...

July 6, 2011, 11:24 AM	#11
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,213	Crush, melt down, and make lamps. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

July 5, 2011, 04:02 PM	#2
Steel Talon Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Posts: 138	As you said separation and cracks.. When it comes to 45 acp brass "straight wall" pistol brass it will normally crack. However case separation with a .223 while chambered can result in catastrophic explosion. Your best defense is visual inspection for stress bands on the brass.. or you can create a feeler gauge from a straightened paper clip,with one end filed to a point and bent into a "L" shape insert into empty brass move up and down gently the point will pick up many separation problems that are beggining. Speer manuals are my favorite for reloading how to there will be pictures and advice on separation issues. Other than that for me if Im not sure of the piece in question I toss it into the recycle bucket.

July 5, 2011, 04:06 PM	#3
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	You should specify if you are asking about rifle or handgun brass. They have two different failure modes. The handgun brass case will usually get a mouth split that eventually all in the lot of cases that have been fired the same number of times will soon get. Rifle brass however, usually does not get mouth splits but thins at place adjacent to where the walls of the case meet the solid head (inside the case). The popular practice of finding those "incipient head separations" is to bend the end of a paper clip 90 degrees use it to feel for a groove around the inside circumference of the case where the side walls meet that solid head.

July 5, 2011, 05:01 PM	#4
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 4,039	I just tossed away about 100 260 Remington cases (made by Norma). Up until now I never had any problem with them, but I had shot all but about 10 of them when I decided to go ahead and shoot the rest of them, resize them and check the neck thickness. To my surprise, about 25% of the cases had split necks. As I had shot them over the last 6 months, I had just put the cases back in the ammo box (neck down) and hadn't checked them as they were fired. They weren't loaded more than 5 times, so this was unexpected. As for other cases, I had one split neck on a new Hornady case (223 that was reloaded twice), but no splits on Winchester (220), Remington (270), or Nosler (223). And, if memory is correct, I had one or maybe 2 split necks on some Norma 220 cases that were loaded about 8 or 9 times and have since been 'retired'. In pistol cases, I only load 38 and 357. Seems like the old PMC cases used to split at the mouth pretty regularly, so I culled them out. Maybe newer PMC cases are better made, but I don't have any new cases by anybody.

July 5, 2011, 07:39 PM	#5
UtopiaTexasG19 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 743	So what is the current wisdom of trying to extract part of a broken case left in the rifle chamber? I have only found one post so far in the archives touting a bent piece of wire but I wonder if a thin screwdriver bent 90 degrees right at the tip might be a bit more stout? Heating the tip first with a acetylene torch would let one bend just a tiny part of the tip. I've made similiar tools for rebuilding Ford Model T's and extracting parts fallen in places where the should not be!

July 5, 2011, 08:20 PM	#6
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	I do not think a home made tool is suitable for extracting a case from a rifle chamber, it may be possible for a bore brush to be pushed partially thru a case lodged in the chamber and pull the case out providing it is a bolt gun. William

July 5, 2011, 10:49 PM	#9
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	I agree with dahermit about using the proper tool for the job, I have a GI shell casing tool that was missing a piece that I fabricated that has never been used. Non the less I have it if it is ever needed, usually three to four firings and I pitch the brass into my recycle bucket and call it done. I've been collecting brass for years and have plenty for the rest of my shooting days! William

July 5, 2011, 10:57 PM	#10
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 2,006	I had a case separation on a 22 hornet rifle a couple of years back. I first tried an oversize bore brush (25 calibre). That failed. Then I tried screwing an easy out into the case to loosen it. That failed. Then I packed wet toilet paper into the barrel with the bollt closed. After letting it set for a while, I opened the bolt and tried pushing the paper out the action end of the barrel. That failed. ( Covered the bolt with something, as this method was suggested by a co-worker that has seen it used when a hunting partner encountered this problem out in the boonies. The issue for me was that the 22 hornet is a bottle shaped cartridge.) Then I tried screwing a tap into the stuck case. That failed. Then I took it to a good smith. $120 later it was fixed. The smith polished the chamber, and told me there was some roughness that may have contibuted. Good luck!

July 6, 2011, 06:48 PM	#12
Clifford L. Hughes Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2011 Location: Southern Californis Posts: 795	Utopia Texas: Let me share with you an experience that I had. I wanted to know how many times that a pistol cartridge could be reloaded. I took once fired .41 magnum cases to the range with my reloading press. I loaded the cases to full power and I started shooting. I believe that the cases were Remington. The first case neck spiit on firing number seven. The last case split on firing forty-three. This was fourty five years ago and my notes are lost but as well as I can remember the twenty-five cases lasted for four-hundred and seventy firings. Semper Fi. Ginnery sergeant Clifford L. Hughes USMC Retired

July 6, 2011, 11:38 PM	#13
rogn Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2005 Posts: 203	lLong ago and faraway , I used to compete extensively at bench rest. One of my rifles was a peculular wildcat and required extensive reforming from 308 BR brass. I used them as long as they were accurate. I have fired some of those cases over 100 times at full bore. Case mouths would split if not periodically anealed. The primers would be easier to seat, but I think that was from wear in the pockets, just because of the priming, depriming operations.

July 7, 2011, 08:41 AM	#14
Dapperdan Member Join Date: June 17, 2011 Posts: 47	Primer pockets on my rifle and pistol brass begin to get loose long before I get splits. This is not always the case, but generally so. I put them in a container that eventually goes to the scrap dealers, along with brass that I no longer have guns for, or military rifle cases that I don't want to fool with. This may seem extravagant to some, but I shoot at a public range and usually can find enough good brass The exception is 223 or uncommon calibers. The 223's most people are shooting these days is usually steel-cased or has military crimp, in other words, whatever they can get in bulk for cheapo! Don't know what brass is bringing these days, but, a few years ago, it was $3 a pound. It's gone down some, I know.. I once brought in 50 lbs. and got over $100., but it takes a lot of cases! I don't make a habit of scarfing up brass at the range that I can't use, others may want it, t'ain't fair. I have found that nickel cases don't last as well as brass from a splitting standpoint. Best wishes, all.