Bad Ammo???

74camaroman · November 21, 2010, 04:45 PM

OK. I hope I am in the right place (if I should by in handgun section please put this there), because I have never seen this happen before:
My brother in law and I went to the range on Wed. He has a fairly new (100rds,so far) Springfield Loaded Operator 1911. He bought some ammo from someone his sister knows that works somewhere where they load ammo. He bought 500rds. 230gr. FMJ from them. He got 500rds loose in a box and a bag of about 100rds which are the ones he fired on Wed. The first Mag had a Jam after the 4th shot. He dropped the magazine, then cycled the action and a primer button came out of the Magazine compartment. I picked up the shell and sure enough the primer was not in the shell. This happened two more times during shooting. I checked all the empties and I could drag my finger nail and hook the primer with my nail on most all the shells. When we got back he looked and the loose ammo in the box and they all had RED, like nail polish, covering the back of the primer, he hasn't shot any of this ammo. What would cause the primer to completely come out of the back of the shell casing? What would be the reason for the Red (like nail polish) to be applied to the back of the primer? What would cause the primer to back out of the shell casing after firing? I don't reload handgun or rifle shells but I do reload shot shells and have never had this happen with shot shells. Any and all answers will be appreciated, Thank you. Bob

k4swb · November 21, 2010, 05:11 PM

Sounds like the brass has been loaded enough times to cause the primer pockets to become overly large and someone used something (colored red) in hopes it would keep the primers stuck in the pocket long enough to sucker someone in.
I would politely try returning the ammo and if that didn't work, I'd probably become less polite.

brickeyee · November 21, 2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

I checked all the empties and I could drag my finger nail and hook the primer with my nail on most all the shells

.

Primer cratering can be caused by high pressure or a sloppy ft between the fring pin and the hole it is in.
Has cratering been present on other commercial ammunition?

Quote:

When we got back he looked and the loose ammo in the box and they all had RED, like nail polish, covering the back of the primer, he hasn't shot any of this ammo.

Lacquer is used in a lot of ammunition to provide a better seal around the primer.
It is usually just applied to the edge of the primer.

Maybe these are discards from setting up machinery?

Quote:

What would cause the primer to completely come out of the back of the shell casing?

High pressure, oversize primer pocket (manufacturing error on new brass).

Quote:

What would be the reason for the Red (like nail polish) to be applied to the back of the primer?

A better seal. Also answered above.

Quote:

What would cause the primer to back out of the shell casing after firing?

Very low pressure or high pressure can both cause primers to be proud of the case head.

Low pressure (very low) pushes the primer partly out but is not high enough to then stretch the case tight to the breech face and re-seat the primer.

Very high pressure can stretch the case head making the primer pocket oversize and lose enough to even fall out (VERY high pressure).

farmerboy · November 21, 2010, 05:18 PM

brickeye pretty well summed it up for ya.

Tanker6 · November 21, 2010, 08:23 PM

How 'bout this as an explanation?

---the reloader didn't have any large primers, so he used small primers instead?

---then, realizing he had a problem, used the polish to try to keep 'em from fallin' out....

farmerboy · November 21, 2010, 08:33 PM

how bout if a frog had wings? I guess anything is possible though

Tanker6 · November 21, 2010, 08:38 PM

Laugh if you want, but I know another guy who really did that (small primers in 45 acp loads). Then he asked me (like I'm an expert

), "I can't figure out why my primers were falling out while I was loading the clip at the range."

November 21, 2010, 04:45 PM	#1
74camaroman Member Join Date: April 24, 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 50	Bad Ammo??? OK. I hope I am in the right place (if I should by in handgun section please put this there), because I have never seen this happen before: My brother in law and I went to the range on Wed. He has a fairly new (100rds,so far) Springfield Loaded Operator 1911. He bought some ammo from someone his sister knows that works somewhere where they load ammo. He bought 500rds. 230gr. FMJ from them. He got 500rds loose in a box and a bag of about 100rds which are the ones he fired on Wed. The first Mag had a Jam after the 4th shot. He dropped the magazine, then cycled the action and a primer button came out of the Magazine compartment. I picked up the shell and sure enough the primer was not in the shell. This happened two more times during shooting. I checked all the empties and I could drag my finger nail and hook the primer with my nail on most all the shells. When we got back he looked and the loose ammo in the box and they all had RED, like nail polish, covering the back of the primer, he hasn't shot any of this ammo. What would cause the primer to completely come out of the back of the shell casing? What would be the reason for the Red (like nail polish) to be applied to the back of the primer? What would cause the primer to back out of the shell casing after firing? I don't reload handgun or rifle shells but I do reload shot shells and have never had this happen with shot shells. Any and all answers will be appreciated, Thank you. Bob

November 21, 2010, 05:11 PM	#2
k4swb Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2009 Posts: 389	Sounds like the brass has been loaded enough times to cause the primer pockets to become overly large and someone used something (colored red) in hopes it would keep the primers stuck in the pocket long enough to sucker someone in. I would politely try returning the ammo and if that didn't work, I'd probably become less polite.

November 21, 2010, 05:18 PM	#4
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	brickeye pretty well summed it up for ya.

November 21, 2010, 08:23 PM	#5
Tanker6 Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 193	How 'bout this as an explanation? ---the reloader didn't have any large primers, so he used small primers instead? ---then, realizing he had a problem, used the polish to try to keep 'em from fallin' out....

November 21, 2010, 08:33 PM	#6
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	how bout if a frog had wings? I guess anything is possible though

November 21, 2010, 08:38 PM	#7
Tanker6 Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 193	Laugh if you want, but I know another guy who really did that (small primers in 45 acp loads). Then he asked me (like I'm an expert ), "I can't figure out why my primers were falling out while I was loading the clip at the range."