Reloading .351 winchester

M4Sherman · October 13, 2010, 01:58 AM

I am in the possess of trying to get some usable ammunition out of the 200 reloads I picked up at the junk store. So from the top what do I need to reload for the .351 winchester? I have heard you can use .357 magnum dies but when I tried that the case opened up to much. also what powder should I use and where can I get more bullets/boolits?

**Unclenick** · October 13, 2010, 03:18 AM

.357 dies are not really correct for .351 Win. The .351 cases have a 0.002" smaller OD, so if your chamber is tight a case sized by the .357 die may not feed into it properly,. The expander, as you discovered, needs to be 0.006" smaller.

Call Lee Precision and see if they can make you a correct sizer and expander. They are relatively inexpensive on custom work and will do what you need.

For bullets, Buffalo Arms makes a soft nose. At $.50 each, they don't exactly encourage volume shooting, but at least they are available. If you want to shoot much, I think you are going to want to consider ordering a mold and casting your own. You can custom design one and get it from Lee or Mountain Molds, which has an online design program. NEI makes a mold for a 172 grain plain base .351. Also check with DKT to see if they make any .351 bullets (616-641-7120).

QuickLOAD shows Hodgdon Lil' Gun being a top performer for the round with a bullet in the range of 180 grains. It also like 296/H110.

TXGunNut · October 13, 2010, 08:58 PM

Nothing to add, just wanted to keep the thread alive to hear more about this round. Never heard of it.
+1 on the mould tip.

M4Sherman · October 14, 2010, 12:32 PM

what kind of load does you manual show for 296 powder? I already load for my .30 carbine and if I only have to use one kind of powder that definitely simplifies things

TXGunNut · October 14, 2010, 11:30 PM

FWIW found a blog by Bob Shell where he mentions 18grs H110 under a 200gr bullet.

**Unclenick** · October 15, 2010, 12:27 AM

QuickLOAD thinks, for a 180 grain bullet you'll have between 17.5 grains and 19.5 grains. Same ballpark. Probably correct.

M4Sherman · October 15, 2010, 02:03 AM

sweet thanks dudes. Anyway after pulling 50rnds I have ended up with a 20/30 mix of cracked/good brass ratio. Right now I am crying since that means that 20 dollars of brass just bested (buck a pop for old reloads)

mapsjanhere · October 15, 2010, 08:52 AM

No need for custom dies, Midway carries them, ditto on brass (so at a $1.15 a pop).

M4Sherman · October 15, 2010, 12:30 PM

I have found carbide 357 dies actually do very well, I dont know if carbide are just smaller but they work!

**Unclenick** · October 17, 2010, 06:14 PM

New brass should solve the problem with splits. I had no idea Midway carried so many correct dies for .351. I didn't spot it on the caliber list, but a search turns up quite a list of both Redding and RCBS, and dies to get down over the bottom of the case. Never occurred to me to look.

As I suggested, the .357 die may work if the brass is in the right tolerance range and your chamber is wide enough. It's the expanders over expanding the mouth that you need to watch out for. It depends on the design. If you used a Lee Universal Expander, there would be no problem. If you used a Lyman M type .357 expander, the bullets would quite possibly end up falling in. I see you can buy RCBS expanders separately. If you have their expander die in a different chambering, one of these should screw right in and let you expand correctly.

TATER · October 20, 2010, 12:14 PM

TXGunNut, The 351 Winchester Was Carried by prison guards
In early 1900s.. Its a nifty little rifle. Numrich carries 10 round
Magazines for them along with other parts.

TXGunNut · October 20, 2010, 10:56 PM

Thanks, TATER. I did a brief search and found some interesting stuff about the round. It's not a great round but it has an interesting history. Sounds like a cool rifle indeed.

F. Guffey · October 21, 2010, 10:50 AM

Interesting, I have suggested ordering a SPECIAL ORDER CATALOG from RCBS, 1800 533 5000, free, I do not care if the catalog used is from, Redding, Hormnady, Lee or Lyman etc., but for me it is always the best place to start, The 351 Winchester forming die is a Group 1 die and available from RCBS for 100.00 dollars ($), The forming die is used to form 357 Magnum cases to 351 Winchester, my opinion, if you had the forming die kit cases for the 351 W would never cost more than the price of a 357 Magnum case, and after forming 100 cases the die is paid for.
The 351 W cases you purchased will never be worth more than they were when you acquired them, as a collector item, if the cases split during pull down expect more failures during expanding and bullet seating.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=970005 At $1.30 each +/- a few, that would be $1.32 +/- a few for 100 cases. + shipping

And if there was a demand for 351 W cases you could get with other reloaders in your area, this could off set the price of the dies.

Cases for 14+ chambers I load for will never cost me more than .08 cents each* (*the +, 7.7 Japanese).

*New pull-down 30/06 from Pat's in Ohio .08 cents each, NM new pull down for .11 cents each, knowing I was going to use them, I stocked up, I do not know what they cost today.

F. Guffey

TXGunNut · October 21, 2010, 10:28 PM

As far as catalogs go forming die sections are pretty fascinating.

HiBC · October 24, 2010, 07:02 AM

I do recall a friend running a lathe modifying a bunch of .357 brass.He was turning the rim off and cutting an extractor groove with a form tool.
I believe that would be one thing to remember about using .357 brass to make .351WSL.Rimmed/rimless
Another thing to keep in mind these rifles are unlocked breech straight blowback.Compare to a locked breech M1carbine.There is a certain amount of getting the load right necessary or that brass won't last long.
To get enough mass for the bolt to work,the forend is a shell,andpart of the bolts mass is actually reciprocating inside he wood.The bolt is massive.
I have had the fun of firing a .401 WSL a little.Its a hoot,they recoil out of proportion to the round.

October 13, 2010, 01:58 AM	#1
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	Reloading .351 winchester I am in the possess of trying to get some usable ammunition out of the 200 reloads I picked up at the junk store. So from the top what do I need to reload for the .351 winchester? I have heard you can use .357 magnum dies but when I tried that the case opened up to much. also what powder should I use and where can I get more bullets/boolits?

October 13, 2010, 03:18 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,732	.357 dies are not really correct for .351 Win. The .351 cases have a 0.002" smaller OD, so if your chamber is tight a case sized by the .357 die may not feed into it properly,. The expander, as you discovered, needs to be 0.006" smaller. Call Lee Precision and see if they can make you a correct sizer and expander. They are relatively inexpensive on custom work and will do what you need. For bullets, Buffalo Arms makes a soft nose. At $.50 each, they don't exactly encourage volume shooting, but at least they are available. If you want to shoot much, I think you are going to want to consider ordering a mold and casting your own. You can custom design one and get it from Lee or Mountain Molds, which has an online design program. NEI makes a mold for a 172 grain plain base .351. Also check with DKT to see if they make any .351 bullets (616-641-7120). QuickLOAD shows Hodgdon Lil' Gun being a top performer for the round with a bullet in the range of 180 grains. It also like 296/H110. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 15, 2010, 12:27 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,732	QuickLOAD thinks, for a 180 grain bullet you'll have between 17.5 grains and 19.5 grains. Same ballpark. Probably correct. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 15, 2010, 08:52 AM	#8
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	No need for custom dies, Midway carries them, ditto on brass (so at a $1.15 a pop). __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 17, 2010, 06:14 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,732	New brass should solve the problem with splits. I had no idea Midway carried so many correct dies for .351. I didn't spot it on the caliber list, but a search turns up quite a list of both Redding and RCBS, and dies to get down over the bottom of the case. Never occurred to me to look. As I suggested, the .357 die may work if the brass is in the right tolerance range and your chamber is wide enough. It's the expanders over expanding the mouth that you need to watch out for. It depends on the design. If you used a Lee Universal Expander, there would be no problem. If you used a Lyman M type .357 expander, the bullets would quite possibly end up falling in. I see you can buy RCBS expanders separately. If you have their expander die in a different chambering, one of these should screw right in and let you expand correctly. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 13, 2010, 08:58 PM	#3
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Nothing to add, just wanted to keep the thread alive to hear more about this round. Never heard of it. +1 on the mould tip.

October 14, 2010, 12:32 PM	#4
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	what kind of load does you manual show for 296 powder? I already load for my .30 carbine and if I only have to use one kind of powder that definitely simplifies things

October 14, 2010, 11:30 PM	#5
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	FWIW found a blog by Bob Shell where he mentions 18grs H110 under a 200gr bullet.

October 15, 2010, 02:03 AM	#7
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	sweet thanks dudes. Anyway after pulling 50rnds I have ended up with a 20/30 mix of cracked/good brass ratio. Right now I am crying since that means that 20 dollars of brass just bested (buck a pop for old reloads)

October 15, 2010, 12:30 PM	#9
M4Sherman Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 408	I have found carbide 357 dies actually do very well, I dont know if carbide are just smaller but they work!

October 20, 2010, 12:14 PM	#11
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	TXGunNut, The 351 Winchester Was Carried by prison guards In early 1900s.. Its a nifty little rifle. Numrich carries 10 round Magazines for them along with other parts.

October 20, 2010, 10:56 PM	#12
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Thanks, TATER. I did a brief search and found some interesting stuff about the round. It's not a great round but it has an interesting history. Sounds like a cool rifle indeed.

October 21, 2010, 10:50 AM	#13
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Interesting, I have suggested ordering a SPECIAL ORDER CATALOG from RCBS, 1800 533 5000, free, I do not care if the catalog used is from, Redding, Hormnady, Lee or Lyman etc., but for me it is always the best place to start, The 351 Winchester forming die is a Group 1 die and available from RCBS for 100.00 dollars ($), The forming die is used to form 357 Magnum cases to 351 Winchester, my opinion, if you had the forming die kit cases for the 351 W would never cost more than the price of a 357 Magnum case, and after forming 100 cases the die is paid for. The 351 W cases you purchased will never be worth more than they were when you acquired them, as a collector item, if the cases split during pull down expect more failures during expanding and bullet seating. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=970005 At $1.30 each +/- a few, that would be $1.32 +/- a few for 100 cases. + shipping And if there was a demand for 351 W cases you could get with other reloaders in your area, this could off set the price of the dies. Cases for 14+ chambers I load for will never cost me more than .08 cents each* (the +, 7.7 Japanese). New pull-down 30/06 from Pat's in Ohio .08 cents each, NM new pull down for .11 cents each, knowing I was going to use them, I stocked up, I do not know what they cost today. F. Guffey

October 21, 2010, 10:28 PM	#14
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	As far as catalogs go forming die sections are pretty fascinating.

October 24, 2010, 07:02 AM	#15
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	I do recall a friend running a lathe modifying a bunch of .357 brass.He was turning the rim off and cutting an extractor groove with a form tool. I believe that would be one thing to remember about using .357 brass to make .351WSL.Rimmed/rimless Another thing to keep in mind these rifles are unlocked breech straight blowback.Compare to a locked breech M1carbine.There is a certain amount of getting the load right necessary or that brass won't last long. To get enough mass for the bolt to work,the forend is a shell,andpart of the bolts mass is actually reciprocating inside he wood.The bolt is massive. I have had the fun of firing a .401 WSL a little.Its a hoot,they recoil out of proportion to the round.