Yet another question? Minimum starting load?

[Xfire68]

My Lyman (49th) has "recommended starting loads". Can I safely load a few grains lower for target shooting/plinking?

I am not talking about allot but, say instead of 25g I drop it down to 22 or 21g?

Is this one of those try it and see or is there a problem with this idea to begin with?

[rtpzwms]

In my sierra loading manual every page says on the bottom of the page " LOADS LESS THAN THE MINIMUM CHARGES SHOWN ARE NOT RECOMMENDED". I think you should consider the starting loads as the MINIMUM and go up from there. If you are not sure call Lyman. I just got off the phone with Sierra with a question on the 380 load data that I wanted to confirm, they were very nice and helpful. I have no reason to think that Lyman would be different.

[mehavey]

For what you described as minor reductions,...

-If it's a flake or extruded/stick powder, most likely OK

-If a ball powder, don't be surprised if there is increasing ignition inconsistancy/velocity variation. (The nefarious 'I3/V2' syndrome)

- And if an autoloader, at some point as you drop down in charge with any of the above you might begin encountering short-stroke misfeeds. Where this actually starts cannot be reliably predicted

[HighExpert]

The other problem with reduced loads is, believe it or not, overpressure. The loading manuals are written with safety in mind. Believe them. I bet you were one who put your hand on the burner you were just told was hot to see if your Mom was lying, right?

[Brian Pfleuger]

The safest way to get reduced loads for rifles is to use a small charge of a very fast pistol powder, like Unique or Bullseye, or better yet, use Trail Boss. Trail Boss is safe for all rifles when the case is filled to a capacity of between 70% and 100% of remaining space after the bullet is seated. IMR is very clear that Trail Boss must never be compressed.

IMR explains how to work up a load here:

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

I bought Trail Boss to fireform my cases but I've found that it's really a great powder. It produces loads in my 204 at 75% fill that are so quiet you don't need hearing protection.

I produces loads in my 7mm-08 that are an absolute pleasure to shoot. It really tames the recoil of the 7mm in a handgun.

[Xfire68]

This is why I am asking. I have not tried any reduced loads but wanted to see if anyone with expert knowledge has and if there is any risks at hand.

The loads are for a AR and it would be Varget or Benchmark, 62 and 55g bullets, LC brass with CCI small rifle primers. I wanted to see if I could shoot OK target loads a bit cheaper with a little less recoil for the ladies that shoot with us. I know that the AR does not have all that much recoil to begin with but one of the girls is super thin and tiny and has said it hurt a little when she shot it.

[Xfire68]

Peetzakilla, thanks a bunch! That is some pretty cool info and I have to say it's looks like it will be fun just like they say! LOL

It would be fantastic if I could soot the AR without having hearing protection on!

[Brian Pfleuger]

It would be fantastic if I could soot the AR without having hearing protection on!

A few things to consider....

One, loads of Trail Boss in your AR will very likely not cycle the action....

Two, trajectory is "brick-like". Those loads in my 204 are at 2000fps, a full-power load is 2 inches high at 175 yards.... that load is well over a foot low.

Three, depending on barrel length, you may still need hearing protection. Trail Boss is a very fast powder, so muzzle pressure is low but the shorter the barrel the higher (and louder) it will be.

[Jim Watson]

It won't be THAT quiet.

The usual starting load is 90% of the maximum.
Lyman shows even lighter loads in some combinations. I would not go below that.

Get the Lady a shoulder pad like the Past or Rand, either a strap-on or one that clips to her bra strap.

[mehavey]

See mid page....

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...43/m/557108576

1st: Note that QL tells me that anything less than 5.7gr Blue Dot may not make it past barrel/engraving friction to go downrange. `Word to the wise....

2nd: Reference my 'standard' 77gr SMK going out of a scoped HBAR at 2,713 fps produces 1,258 ft-lbs of muzzle energy -- and shoves the rifle back at an initial ~4 fps and 3.4 ft-lbs of recoil

3rd: Compare that against a 35gr Hornady ahead of 5.7gr Blue Dot going out at 1,480 fps with 171 ft-lbs muzzle energy -- shoving the rifle back at ~1.2 fps with 0.2 ft-lbs recoil. (It gets ridiculous at this point)

The only thing I can gurantee at this point is that the action will not cycle.


NOTE-1: Standard military 150gr/2700fps Garand will move the rifle backwards at ~10 fps, with 14.3 ft-lbs of recoil energy.

NOTE-2: My .458 Winnie moves backwards at 21 fps with 60 ft-lbs recoil

NOTE-3: A couple of months ago I had two really good-lookin' gals, mid 30s, out at the range with me as RSO. They were cranking their two 375 H&H's through their paces before an Africa trip.

..... 2nd Sexiest girls I ever saw.

[stingrr]

It is not true unless you have pictures.