.38 Special Accuracy in .357 Gun?

torotoro · June 16, 2010, 11:30 PM

I wanted to know if accuracy suffers when shooting .38 Special in a gun chambered for .357 as opposed to one chambered for the .38. I am about to purchase my first handguns and figured that I would get a .357 (after I get a .22) but shoot .38s and have the option for the magnum. I will primarily be plinking at a range (indoor) that does not allow magnums. I would be getting at least a 5" (prolly 6") bbl. I am not that concerned with HD and may eventually become involved in target competition. I am being a bit premature but planning is necessary because here in the great state of NJ, permits to purchase handguns are limited to 90 days/maximum 3 guns. Thanks in advance.

Bill DeShivs · June 16, 2010, 11:38 PM

In theory, the .38 could be less accurate.
In reality, any difference would be so small, you would never notice it.

oldkim · June 16, 2010, 11:41 PM

You should not be concerned over this. It's a non issue.

Getting the 357Mag is the best route since, as you know, you have greater flexibility to shoot 2 cartridges (38Special and 357Mag) out of one gun.

No impact on accuracy.

Now, do know that the 38Special only guns can be a bit lighter so that may be a factor to some.

ScottRiqui · June 16, 2010, 11:41 PM

My S&W model 27 was noticeably more accurate with .357 ammo, but that's not to say that a different .38 load might not have been as accurate as the .357 loads.

sakeneko · June 16, 2010, 11:58 PM

The accuracy issue comes up because bullets of different sizes and powers shoot to different points of aim. I have a .357 (S&W Model 60-10), and shoot a variety of stuff from it, ranging from wimpy .38 special target loads to high-power .357 S/D rounds. I find that I have to be aware of what I'm shooting and adjust my aim. If I do, however, .38 special and .357 are equally accurate from this gun. *I* just need to know how to aim.

Old Grump · June 17, 2010, 12:40 AM

In practice you will find your 38 groups smaller than your 357 groups but probably at a different point of impact. That can be adjusted for. I lose nothing by going from one to the other and the cheaper practice with the 38 pays dividends when I am shooting my 357 at long range or hunting just because I am so familiar with the feel of the gun in my hand.

**Tom Servo** · June 17, 2010, 02:00 AM

There is the possibility that the .38 won't be quite as stable when shot out of a gun chambered for .357. You do have just a hair more freebore before the bullet engages the rifling.

Is it enough for most folks to notice? Unlikely.

As Old Grump mentioned, point of impact will be slightly different, depending on what velocity and bullet weight the gun was sighted in for.

BillCA · June 17, 2010, 03:24 AM

I remember helping resolve this question in 1976. Carter (ugh) was in office, I'd just bought a Ruger Mini-14 with bicentennial markings and owned a six-inch Colt Trooper Mk III, .357 revolver.

The person asking the question owned a 6-inch S&W Model 14 - a nice target/service revolver - and was contemplating a Python. A 3rd friend owned a Ransom rest that would accomodate our guns and a S&W Model 19. So we experiemented.

First, we assembled some .38 and .357 ammo.
- .38 Special 148gr Match wadcutter - Winchester Super-X
- .38 Special 158gr RNL - Remington (aka the "control" round)
- .38 Special 158gr JHP - Winchester Super-X
- .38 Special 110gr JHP - Super Vel
- .357 Magnum 125gr SJHP - Remington
- .357 Magnum 158gr JHP - Winchester Super-X

Shooting two five shot groups from each gun at 25 yards showed changing points of impact with varying group sizes. But the group sizes were all within (nominally) about ⅜" of each other (excluding fliers).

We move the targets to 50 yards. Now things showed up a little differently. The Colt, accurate as it was, showed group sizes opening up more than the S&W .38 special. The Colt's groups were, on average, about 1/2" larger with almost all brands of .38 Special ammo - except the Super-X 158gr JHP (which was actually as tight as the S&W). Results using the S&W Model 19, .357 (4-inch) were consistent with the Colt. The .38 special groups opened up more at 50 yards than they did with the Model 14.

When firing .357 Magnum ammo a 50 yards, the Colt outperformed the Model 19 by a slim margin (about ¼" on average). At 25 yards it was hard to tell the difference without careful measurements.

Conclusion:
Bill DeShivs has the right answer. There is a difference, but it is so minor in normal shooting that you'd never notice it. To notice it, you'd have to be shooting distances over 50 yards and striving for the best accuracy possible. Or you have to be shooting match competitions for points to see any potential differences.

P.S. A later test, using an S&W Model 28 with a full competition package done by master gunsmith Bob Chow resulted in a "one hole" 5-shot group at 25 yards with match wadcutters (three times!). The groups measured between .65" and .85" as best we could measure them.

MrBorland · June 17, 2010, 07:00 AM

I asked this question to a good revolver gunsmith once, and his opinion was that it had more to do with a bullet's smooth entry/exit into & out of the throat than the length of jump to get there. IOW, depends on the individual gun. For a gun with chambers & throats in perfect spec, there ought not be a difference between .357 & .38. BillCAs example of the tuned 28 would seem to support this.

Also, PPC competition requires the use of some seriously accurate guns, and in the heyday of PPC, those guns were revolvers shooting 148gr wadcutters. It's interesting to note that Tom Gaines, the national champion from 1969-70, used a Model 19 .357 rather than a K-38 .38. Many did use the K-38, but the M19 was also used, so I take this as further evidence that, for guns with "good throats", there wasn't enough difference to worry about, even by these superb shooters.

pythagorean · June 17, 2010, 07:11 AM

I've always found .357s of any brand to shoot .38 Target Wadcutters tighter than a magnum load, or at least equal the precision up to 25 yards.

My most recent buy is a 27-2 and the shop didn't have any Target wadcutters to buy so I bought Winchester .38 Special 150 grain semi wadcutter lead ($33.49 per 50 versus the $26.69 per 50 of .357 Remington 125 gr JSPs) to try out.

I posted this on my thread ".357, .41, .44 Magnums; I got them all now" proving once again the .357 is capable of shooting .38s as if custom designed to do so.

Personally I've never had a .357 except for a Blackhawk of new manufacture fail to shoot .38s with equal or better accuracy. The argument about the bullet having to jump freebore doesn't cut it with me.

A .38 dedicated Colt Python or SW 52 MIGHT do a fraction better, but not enough to justify the expense when limited to only .38 compared to the .357.

spacecoast · June 17, 2010, 07:26 AM

This is probably contrary to popular opinion, but last Sunday I was significantly more accurate off-hand DA at 15 yards with my 6" 686-4 using relatively hot .357s than I was mild .38s (both are my reloads). Maybe the gun just likes them more, or I was not concentrating as much with the .38s. Below is a group of 12 .357s at 15 yards.

DocDizz · June 17, 2010, 07:32 AM

The only difference I have when I shoot .38's instead of .357's in my 19-4 is they tend to hit low, but it's sighted for full mags at 25 yards.

natman · June 17, 2010, 10:37 AM

For serious target use, I'd use a revolver chambered in 38 Special.

For practical field use, I'd get a 357 and go shooting.

briandg · June 17, 2010, 11:03 AM

In my experience, and as you have read in previous posts, unless you are able to drop all of your rounds into the X ring consistently, you probably aren't good enough to see an honest difference between one and the other in terms of true accuracy.

People who see those differences are probably noticing many other variables, and not really seeing the honest effect of the free bore jump. My colt trooper fires jacketed .38 more accurately (tighter groups) than lead .357, is that a good reason to say that the whole issue is a load of hogwash? No, it is just proof that every gun, load, and shooter have their quirks.

Free bore in rifles does have accuracy repercussions, a burned out throat will increase group size. But, in a rifle, what does that mean? an inch or so at 100 yards? at 50 feet, what would that be,1/8-1/4 inch? It's pretty tough for me to say that the extra free bore in a .357 won't cause larger groups, intuitively, it should, but I don't believe that it will be noticeable.

I'd get the .357, unless you are determined to get the smaller frame .38. There is no really good reason to own a dedicated .38 otherwise, IMHO.

Russ5924 · June 17, 2010, 11:38 AM

Most of my .357 have never seem a .357 load.You just have to be aware that if you shoot a lot of .38 they will carbon up the chambers. So if loading .357 they may jam up or won't go in all the way. Just keep your chambers clean and you should have no problem

robhof · June 17, 2010, 12:34 PM

When I hunted with a 357 Dan Wesson in Louisiana, many years ago. I carried a speed loader of 38 wad cutters for varmits. They are extremely accurate as stated above out to 30 or so yds. I even took a squirrel with one with a shoulder/head shot at about 10yds. I was in a tree stand and the tree rat was determined to alert every animal in the woods to my presence, he even threw sticks at me, but when squirrel droppings hit me, the 38's came out and down came the squirrel.

kraigwy · June 17, 2010, 12:51 PM

I've been practicing a bit for an ICORE match coming up this weekend. I've been practicing with my Model 64 with a bunch of 38 loads (4.5 grns Unique pushing a 150 grn SWC).

This morrning I picked up my Model 27 and tried it with the same loads. Screw that, I'm leaving the Model 64 home.

I dont shoot good enough where as I can tell the differance in accuracy in using 38s in 38 vs using 38s in a 357 (not sure there are many who can while standing on your hind legs). But I do know I can shoot my Model 27 a heck of a lot better.

I think it boils down to which gun you shoot the best, disregarding whether its 38 or 357.

rep1954 · June 18, 2010, 11:01 PM

I was certainly pleased with this 357 shooting 38's on it's first time out and I'm sure shooting from a rest would have resulted in groups half this size.

Buzzcook · June 19, 2010, 01:50 AM

Buy the gun not the caliber.
If you find a real good .38, get it. If you find a real good .357, get that instead.

Don't overlook a K-38 Masterpiece because it's not a .357. Don't ignore a Colt Python because it isn't a dedicated .38.

torotoro · June 19, 2010, 02:16 AM

I understand your point buzz, but "finding" a gun in NJ ain't so easy as you may think

Buzzcook · June 19, 2010, 01:30 PM

Torotoro: You're right I don't know much about gun shopping in New Jersey. My experience is limited to 40 years of buying and trading for gun in Oregon and Washington.

Even given my lack of knowledge I'm willing to bet that you'll be able to find a gun you like.
I just googled "New Jersey gun shops" and found this guy
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/bytownresults.asp?ID=4223

I can't say Jim's Gun Shop has the best deals, but they do have a selection of .38's and .357's to choose from.

I also googled "New Jersey gun ranges" and found out that it is legal to rent guns in your state.
http://www.shoreshotpistolrange.com/

Don't know anything about this place, except that it does rent guns. It's possible it might rent ones you're interested in trying out.

torotoro · June 19, 2010, 06:32 PM

Buzz:
I was actually steered away from Jim's by folks at my range (club). I understand he's very clique-ish and caters pretty much to his own (LEO) crowd. There are very few stand alone gun shops in my area and most don't have much on hand for you to actually hold in your hand, they can of course order "anything you want".

I'm way in the NE corner of the state, very close to NYC (part of the problem) and the range you linked is at least an hour or more away from me. There is one rental range that's not nearly as far away that I've yet to visit (still awaiting permit). When I mentioned that place to the folks at the range most either turned up their nose or just gave a blank look. I have a much better chance fondling the guns of the other members at my club, but most are semi guys. Thanks for your effort any way.

rep1954 · June 19, 2010, 06:55 PM

torotoro, I've had good luck dealing with buds gun shop. In the last 2 years I have bought 3 Colts and 1 Ruger.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php

dgludwig · June 20, 2010, 03:55 PM

As others have noted, I doubt that there's any meaningful difference in terms of intrinsic accuracy between most revolvers chambered for the .357 Magnum when they are fired with Magnum loads as compared to .38 Special loads. However, the greater recoil and attendant muzzle "jump" when using .357 Magnum rounds will likely result in some shooters getting better scores with .38 Special rounds. Any substantial differences in group size will mostly reflect the proficency level of the shooter as opposed to how well the revolver shoots either cartridge.

johnbt · June 20, 2010, 06:27 PM

Years ago I bought my father a couple of cases of "Winchester Super Match 148-grain Lead Mid-Range Wadcutter" to shoot in his favorite Python.
He'd tried some of 'Federal Premium Gold Medal .38 Special 148-Gr. Lead Wadcutter Match' that I'd lucked into ($8/box because the gun store found a couple of cases in the back of the warehouse and it had a few light stains on the outer box), but the Winchester was better for him.

Anyway, one day I took some of the Federal ammo to the range and tried it in my old trusty 4" Ruger Police Service Six. Dang. Even with my bad eyes and the fixed sights, but an excellent factory trigger, I had to move to the 50-yard range because shooting at 25 wasn't too challenging. I let other people try it. It was like magic ammo or something.

Of course, for $30 or $35 a box these days it would have to be pure magic to get me to buy it by the case.

June 16, 2010, 11:30 PM	#1
torotoro Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 29	.38 Special Accuracy in .357 Gun? I wanted to know if accuracy suffers when shooting .38 Special in a gun chambered for .357 as opposed to one chambered for the .38. I am about to purchase my first handguns and figured that I would get a .357 (after I get a .22) but shoot .38s and have the option for the magnum. I will primarily be plinking at a range (indoor) that does not allow magnums. I would be getting at least a 5" (prolly 6") bbl. I am not that concerned with HD and may eventually become involved in target competition. I am being a bit premature but planning is necessary because here in the great state of NJ, permits to purchase handguns are limited to 90 days/maximum 3 guns. Thanks in advance.

June 16, 2010, 11:38 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,103	In theory, the .38 could be less accurate. In reality, any difference would be so small, you would never notice it. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 16, 2010, 11:41 PM	#3
oldkim Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 462	no concerns You should not be concerned over this. It's a non issue. Getting the 357Mag is the best route since, as you know, you have greater flexibility to shoot 2 cartridges (38Special and 357Mag) out of one gun. No impact on accuracy. Now, do know that the 38Special only guns can be a bit lighter so that may be a factor to some.

June 17, 2010, 12:40 AM	#6
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	In practice you will find your 38 groups smaller than your 357 groups but probably at a different point of impact. That can be adjusted for. I lose nothing by going from one to the other and the cheaper practice with the 38 pays dividends when I am shooting my 357 at long range or hunting just because I am so familiar with the feel of the gun in my hand. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

June 17, 2010, 02:00 AM	#7
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,093	There is the possibility that the .38 won't be quite as stable when shot out of a gun chambered for .357. You do have just a hair more freebore before the bullet engages the rifling. Is it enough for most folks to notice? Unlikely. As Old Grump mentioned, point of impact will be slightly different, depending on what velocity and bullet weight the gun was sighted in for. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

June 16, 2010, 11:41 PM	#4
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	My S&W model 27 was noticeably more accurate with .357 ammo, but that's not to say that a different .38 load might not have been as accurate as the .357 loads.

June 16, 2010, 11:58 PM	#5
sakeneko Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 644	The accuracy issue comes up because bullets of different sizes and powers shoot to different points of aim. I have a .357 (S&W Model 60-10), and shoot a variety of stuff from it, ranging from wimpy .38 special target loads to high-power .357 S/D rounds. I find that I have to be aware of what I'm shooting and adjust my aim. If I do, however, .38 special and .357 are equally accurate from this gun. I just need to know how to aim.

June 17, 2010, 03:24 AM	#8
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,116	I remember helping resolve this question in 1976. Carter (ugh) was in office, I'd just bought a Ruger Mini-14 with bicentennial markings and owned a six-inch Colt Trooper Mk III, .357 revolver. The person asking the question owned a 6-inch S&W Model 14 - a nice target/service revolver - and was contemplating a Python. A 3rd friend owned a Ransom rest that would accomodate our guns and a S&W Model 19. So we experiemented. First, we assembled some .38 and .357 ammo. - .38 Special 148gr Match wadcutter - Winchester Super-X - .38 Special 158gr RNL - Remington (aka the "control" round) - .38 Special 158gr JHP - Winchester Super-X - .38 Special 110gr JHP - Super Vel - .357 Magnum 125gr SJHP - Remington - .357 Magnum 158gr JHP - Winchester Super-X Shooting two five shot groups from each gun at 25 yards showed changing points of impact with varying group sizes. But the group sizes were all within (nominally) about ⅜" of each other (excluding fliers). We move the targets to 50 yards. Now things showed up a little differently. The Colt, accurate as it was, showed group sizes opening up more than the S&W .38 special. The Colt's groups were, on average, about 1/2" larger with almost all brands of .38 Special ammo - except the Super-X 158gr JHP (which was actually as tight as the S&W). Results using the S&W Model 19, .357 (4-inch) were consistent with the Colt. The .38 special groups opened up more at 50 yards than they did with the Model 14. When firing .357 Magnum ammo a 50 yards, the Colt outperformed the Model 19 by a slim margin (about ¼" on average). At 25 yards it was hard to tell the difference without careful measurements. Conclusion: Bill DeShivs has the right answer. There is a difference, but it is so minor in normal shooting that you'd never notice it. To notice it, you'd have to be shooting distances over 50 yards and striving for the best accuracy possible. Or you have to be shooting match competitions for points to see any potential differences. P.S. A later test, using an S&W Model 28 with a full competition package done by master gunsmith Bob Chow resulted in a "one hole" 5-shot group at 25 yards with match wadcutters (three times!). The groups measured between .65" and .85" as best we could measure them.

June 17, 2010, 07:00 AM	#9
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	I asked this question to a good revolver gunsmith once, and his opinion was that it had more to do with a bullet's smooth entry/exit into & out of the throat than the length of jump to get there. IOW, depends on the individual gun. For a gun with chambers & throats in perfect spec, there ought not be a difference between .357 & .38. BillCAs example of the tuned 28 would seem to support this. Also, PPC competition requires the use of some seriously accurate guns, and in the heyday of PPC, those guns were revolvers shooting 148gr wadcutters. It's interesting to note that Tom Gaines, the national champion from 1969-70, used a Model 19 .357 rather than a K-38 .38. Many did use the K-38, but the M19 was also used, so I take this as further evidence that, for guns with "good throats", there wasn't enough difference to worry about, even by these superb shooters. Last edited by MrBorland; June 17, 2010 at 07:28 AM. Reason: spelling

June 17, 2010, 07:11 AM	#10
pythagorean Junior member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 970	I've always found .357s of any brand to shoot .38 Target Wadcutters tighter than a magnum load, or at least equal the precision up to 25 yards. My most recent buy is a 27-2 and the shop didn't have any Target wadcutters to buy so I bought Winchester .38 Special 150 grain semi wadcutter lead ($33.49 per 50 versus the $26.69 per 50 of .357 Remington 125 gr JSPs) to try out. I posted this on my thread ".357, .41, .44 Magnums; I got them all now" proving once again the .357 is capable of shooting .38s as if custom designed to do so. Personally I've never had a .357 except for a Blackhawk of new manufacture fail to shoot .38s with equal or better accuracy. The argument about the bullet having to jump freebore doesn't cut it with me. A .38 dedicated Colt Python or SW 52 MIGHT do a fraction better, but not enough to justify the expense when limited to only .38 compared to the .357.

June 17, 2010, 07:26 AM	#11
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	This is probably contrary to popular opinion, but last Sunday I was significantly more accurate off-hand DA at 15 yards with my 6" 686-4 using relatively hot .357s than I was mild .38s (both are my reloads). Maybe the gun just likes them more, or I was not concentrating as much with the .38s. Below is a group of 12 .357s at 15 yards.

June 17, 2010, 07:32 AM	#12
DocDizz Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Posts: 257	The only difference I have when I shoot .38's instead of .357's in my 19-4 is they tend to hit low, but it's sighted for full mags at 25 yards.

June 17, 2010, 10:37 AM	#13
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2008 Posts: 2,681	For serious target use, I'd use a revolver chambered in 38 Special. For practical field use, I'd get a 357 and go shooting.

June 17, 2010, 11:03 AM	#14
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	In my experience, and as you have read in previous posts, unless you are able to drop all of your rounds into the X ring consistently, you probably aren't good enough to see an honest difference between one and the other in terms of true accuracy. People who see those differences are probably noticing many other variables, and not really seeing the honest effect of the free bore jump. My colt trooper fires jacketed .38 more accurately (tighter groups) than lead .357, is that a good reason to say that the whole issue is a load of hogwash? No, it is just proof that every gun, load, and shooter have their quirks. Free bore in rifles does have accuracy repercussions, a burned out throat will increase group size. But, in a rifle, what does that mean? an inch or so at 100 yards? at 50 feet, what would that be,1/8-1/4 inch? It's pretty tough for me to say that the extra free bore in a .357 won't cause larger groups, intuitively, it should, but I don't believe that it will be noticeable. I'd get the .357, unless you are determined to get the smaller frame .38. There is no really good reason to own a dedicated .38 otherwise, IMHO.

June 17, 2010, 11:38 AM	#15
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	Most of my .357 have never seem a .357 load.You just have to be aware that if you shoot a lot of .38 they will carbon up the chambers. So if loading .357 they may jam up or won't go in all the way. Just keep your chambers clean and you should have no problem

June 17, 2010, 12:34 PM	#16
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof When I hunted with a 357 Dan Wesson in Louisiana, many years ago. I carried a speed loader of 38 wad cutters for varmits. They are extremely accurate as stated above out to 30 or so yds. I even took a squirrel with one with a shoulder/head shot at about 10yds. I was in a tree stand and the tree rat was determined to alert every animal in the woods to my presence, he even threw sticks at me, but when squirrel droppings hit me, the 38's came out and down came the squirrel.

June 17, 2010, 12:51 PM	#17
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,060	I've been practicing a bit for an ICORE match coming up this weekend. I've been practicing with my Model 64 with a bunch of 38 loads (4.5 grns Unique pushing a 150 grn SWC). This morrning I picked up my Model 27 and tried it with the same loads. Screw that, I'm leaving the Model 64 home. I dont shoot good enough where as I can tell the differance in accuracy in using 38s in 38 vs using 38s in a 357 (not sure there are many who can while standing on your hind legs). But I do know I can shoot my Model 27 a heck of a lot better. I think it boils down to which gun you shoot the best, disregarding whether its 38 or 357.

June 18, 2010, 11:01 PM	#18
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	I was certainly pleased with this 357 shooting 38's on it's first time out and I'm sure shooting from a rest would have resulted in groups half this size.

June 19, 2010, 01:50 AM	#19
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Buy the gun not the caliber. If you find a real good .38, get it. If you find a real good .357, get that instead. Don't overlook a K-38 Masterpiece because it's not a .357. Don't ignore a Colt Python because it isn't a dedicated .38.

June 19, 2010, 02:16 AM	#20
torotoro Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 29	I understand your point buzz, but "finding" a gun in NJ ain't so easy as you may think

June 19, 2010, 01:30 PM	#21
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Torotoro: You're right I don't know much about gun shopping in New Jersey. My experience is limited to 40 years of buying and trading for gun in Oregon and Washington. Even given my lack of knowledge I'm willing to bet that you'll be able to find a gun you like. I just googled "New Jersey gun shops" and found this guy http://www.gunshopfinder.com/bytownresults.asp?ID=4223 I can't say Jim's Gun Shop has the best deals, but they do have a selection of .38's and .357's to choose from. I also googled "New Jersey gun ranges" and found out that it is legal to rent guns in your state. http://www.shoreshotpistolrange.com/ Don't know anything about this place, except that it does rent guns. It's possible it might rent ones you're interested in trying out.

June 19, 2010, 06:32 PM	#22
torotoro Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 29	Buzz: I was actually steered away from Jim's by folks at my range (club). I understand he's very clique-ish and caters pretty much to his own (LEO) crowd. There are very few stand alone gun shops in my area and most don't have much on hand for you to actually hold in your hand, they can of course order "anything you want". I'm way in the NE corner of the state, very close to NYC (part of the problem) and the range you linked is at least an hour or more away from me. There is one rental range that's not nearly as far away that I've yet to visit (still awaiting permit). When I mentioned that place to the folks at the range most either turned up their nose or just gave a blank look. I have a much better chance fondling the guns of the other members at my club, but most are semi guys. Thanks for your effort any way.

June 19, 2010, 06:55 PM	#23
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	torotoro, I've had good luck dealing with buds gun shop. In the last 2 years I have bought 3 Colts and 1 Ruger. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php

June 20, 2010, 03:55 PM	#24
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,487	As others have noted, I doubt that there's any meaningful difference in terms of intrinsic accuracy between most revolvers chambered for the .357 Magnum when they are fired with Magnum loads as compared to .38 Special loads. However, the greater recoil and attendant muzzle "jump" when using .357 Magnum rounds will likely result in some shooters getting better scores with .38 Special rounds. Any substantial differences in group size will mostly reflect the proficency level of the shooter as opposed to how well the revolver shoots either cartridge. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

June 20, 2010, 06:27 PM	#25
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Years ago I bought my father a couple of cases of "Winchester Super Match 148-grain Lead Mid-Range Wadcutter" to shoot in his favorite Python. He'd tried some of 'Federal Premium Gold Medal .38 Special 148-Gr. Lead Wadcutter Match' that I'd lucked into ($8/box because the gun store found a couple of cases in the back of the warehouse and it had a few light stains on the outer box), but the Winchester was better for him. Anyway, one day I took some of the Federal ammo to the range and tried it in my old trusty 4" Ruger Police Service Six. Dang. Even with my bad eyes and the fixed sights, but an excellent factory trigger, I had to move to the 50-yard range because shooting at 25 wasn't too challenging. I let other people try it. It was like magic ammo or something. Of course, for $30 or $35 a box these days it would have to be pure magic to get me to buy it by the case.