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Old May 28, 2010, 12:03 PM   #1
jhart
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9mm question (gun not cycling with reloads)

Alright, just got my new Ruger SR9
I went to my trusty Lyman 48th edition Reloading Handbook and looked up a load.
Here is what I went with

115gr FMJ
4.0gr of 700x
OAL: 1.100"

This is a middle of the road load not the min but not the max, but either way my gun will not cylce properly, I get a lot of "stovepipe's", and "double-feeds".

Here is the question, I asume the load is to weak for the strong "new" recoil spring, but could it be something else? Please give me your advice,

I am thinking of going with a new load:
115 FMJ
6.1gr of Unique
OAL: 1.100"
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Old May 28, 2010, 12:19 PM   #2
demigod
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I've reloaded for a long time. I'm not a 9mm guru, but the two things I've found on my 9mm loads are...

1. Make sure the brass is resized well. Squeeze it way down. and..

2. Load the ammo to the max loads. I load for my glocks and they don't seem to run well until the ammo is loaded towards the top end. Mild loads don't want to eject or cycle very reliably.
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Old May 28, 2010, 04:53 PM   #3
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Ruger semi-autos tend to need more break-in time than most other pistols I have seen. During the break-in period, they don't appreciate mild loads.

And... like everything else in the reloading world - Every gun is different. Sometimes you'll get a pistol that can operate perfectly at 2 grains less than a starting load, but the pistol that sits next to it in your safe needs near-maximum charges to work.


I recommend running 2-3 boxes of jacketed factory ammo through it for some break-in. Then, work up your load in increments. Don't just randomly pick a mid-range load that looks good.

Start with the starting load. Load ~5-10 rounds. Increase the powder charge by 0.1gr or 0.2gr. Load ~5-10 rounds. Lather, Rinse, Repeat up to the max load. At the range, shoot one lot at a time (don't mix say, 6.1gr loads with 6.3gr loads); and take notes on how it feels, how it ejects, any feeding/ejection issues. Keep shooting until the loads are too hot to handle, or start showing pressure signs (or you reach the max). Assess all the information in your notes, as well as what 'felt' the best - that's your load.


If you are looking for a load that's just hot enough to be reliable, but not pushing a lot of velocity - you'll also need anyone else that will shoot the load to test it.
For example: I have a 122gr Lead Flat Point load for my 9mm that works great. It might be pushing 700 fps. I wanted it to be a low velocity, super-cheap plinking load, but 100% reliable. It worked great for 3 years. It cycles every 9mm in the family, as long as its in the hands of experienced shooters. However, as soon as my wife, any kids, or my brothers' wives get their hands on that load (in any pistol).... it stove-pipes, fails to feed, fails to eject, and does all kinds of funky stuff. For my "super-cheap" load to work, the shooter needs proper technique, and a good, firm grip. The kids and wives can't quite do it...

Now that the wife is shooting more, I'm going to have to bump that load up a bit (I still have my notes from developing it, so I can just jump to a different charge weight - since it's the same lot of powder). That way, she can concentrate on technique, stance, and grip - rather than, "What the ** is wrong?".
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Old May 28, 2010, 07:22 PM   #4
BigJimP
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stovepipes are probably a break in issue on the gun ...and my not be related to your specific load. But its pretty hard to tell / until you have taken the gun thru at least 500 rounds...

the double feed issue sounds like a magazine issue to me ...something causing the mag to drop a little / or to pick up a 2nd round out of the mag ...but probably not related to an ammo cycling issue.

Breaking in a new gun can be frustrating / and you could go to a hotter load closer to the max if you want / or at least try a couple of boxes of them.

Make sure your specs on the reloads are within tolerances for your loading manuals on length, etc. I reload and shoot a lot of 9mm in a variety of 1911's / and some Sig 226's and 239's ....and I load everything to a mid-range load using Hodgdon TiteGroup and usually Rainier Ballistic ( cheap ) 124 gr RN bullets...

Just try to be patient.
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Old May 28, 2010, 07:30 PM   #5
jhart
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Thanks for the input, sounds like I just need to get some "break-in" done and work on a good load. I loaded 10 rounds with Unique today going to test them tomorrow. As for OAL, my book says 1.090 for a 115gr HP but I am shooting a FMJ, my OAL is 1.103 on my reloads, anyone see any problems with that?
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Old May 28, 2010, 07:47 PM   #6
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Hollow points often present feeding issues in a number of guns ...so I wouldn't go that route. I see a lot of guys having feeding issues on hollow point reloads.....in any number of calibers.

Get some cheap plated RN bullets ....and you'll be way better off...and they will feed a lot more reliably. I don't have my reloading manuals at my office - so I don't have specs handy on overall length. But another way to evaluate your reloads --- is to mic some factory ammo / and compare the length to your reloads / and then cross reference your manuals ...especially when you're having feeding issues with your mags, etc ...
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Old May 28, 2010, 11:03 PM   #7
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Make sure your loads ARE comparable

BigJimP is right on about the round nose, though nose shape is unlikely related to your current problem. If one load works and another (seemingly identical) does not, you make as manu of the variable factors the same as possible and find out which one variable (or set of avariables) makes the difference between success and failure.

Does your gun cycle reliably with factory ammuntion?

If I had access to a chronograph, I would work up a load that had the same muzzle velocity as a well-cycling load (factory, or a trusted friend/mentor?) and see if my handloads failed to cycle, then try to see if they have less energy available to cycle the slide, which seems to be the most likely culprit.

If I did not have access to a Chronograph (my situation for 30 years) I would observe where my (successfully) ejected casings landed and see it that suggsested any ideas.

Other ideas:

Are your reloads sticky on the outside; that is, do they easily slide in and out of the chamber? Dismantle your gun and, with the barrel alone, try several of your reloads for fit.

Find a way to find out if your gun is fully cycling to the rear for ejection (a close-up video where you can stop action frame-by-frame is useful here). Take care to protect your lens from escaping gasses.

Does your slide lock open reliably when firing the last round in the magazine? Just brainstorming here.

Does it perform differently with different magazines? (I have heard that most feed problems are related to the magazine, particularly feed lip shape and mag spring strength).

That's all I can think of from the top of my head right now. It has been a long week at work, and a root canal to boot.

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Last edited by Lost Sheep; May 28, 2010 at 11:05 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 28, 2010, 11:20 PM   #8
riverwalker76
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I'm not sure if you stated this or not, but how many rounds do you have down the pipe so far?

It could be a break in issue. I think most Rugers have a break-in period of 200+ Factory Rounds. In a new pistol things are too tight to tell if the reloads will feed and fire reliably.

Also, get you a 'Go / No Go' gauge for your rounds. You check them after reloading to ensure they will feed into your chamber. Here is a pic of the one I use. They work great and eliminate the possibility of an oversized case being the issue.

Lyman Cartridge Gauge :

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Old May 29, 2010, 12:27 AM   #9
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
Hollow points often present feeding issues in a number of guns ...so I wouldn't go that route. I see a lot of guys having feeding issues on hollow point reloads.....in any number of calibers.
I have never had an issue feeding Hollow Points in any weapon, except my .380 Auto. For the .380, I eyeballed the ogive of the HP against an FMJ until it was close, when seated in the case. I seated bullets for 5 dummy rounds, and cycled them until I felt the OAL was reliable. My OAL was shorter than most books recommended, but I backed off on the starting load by 0.5gr (to avoid low-volume/high-pressure issues), and haven't had a problem since I worked the load up.

Almost all HPs can be made to work in most pistols. It's usually a matter of playing with the OAL. Sometimes... using a hotter load can help. Getting a little extra slide velocity can help pound that binding round into the chamber, rather than causing a stoppage (not something to mess with, if you have set-back issues).
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Old May 29, 2010, 01:14 AM   #10
DocAitch
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9mm

I am admittedly not the most fastidious gun owner/shooter so the first thing that I do when load that has worked previously doesn't cycle the pistol is to lube the pistol (I clean it after the range session.)
If it is a new load, I bump the charge if I am still within the charge range.
I suspect that the new pistol will smooth out in a few hundred rounds as the guys have pointed out above.
I also tend to stay at the faster end of the burn rate chart and don't see any reason to switch from the 700x.
I also find that different pistols work more easily with light loads-my CZ 75 will cycle just about any round in the legit recipe books but my Glock 34 requires a bit more boost, but there are too many variables to examine with that phenomenon.
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Old May 29, 2010, 10:20 AM   #11
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Here's a different angle to look for:

How are you metering that powder? 700x has been (accurately) compared to trying to meter crushed Oreo cookies from many powder throwing devices.

If you are hand weighing each charge, then I have no insight to offer that hasn't already been given.

But if you are flipping a handle on a measure or using something like the Lee Autodisk powder measure, then I would be very suspect of what charge is actually being dumped when using 700x.

I would be equally skeptical of any charge you think is being dumped if you use Unique. These two powders, along with 800x and any of the "Dot" powders (Blue Dot, Red Dot, Green Dot, Promo) are horrible through most powder measures and they can't dump a consistent charge.

You may see 4.0 grains of 700x dumped once, and you may see 3.6, 3.8, 4.1 and 3.5 get dumped on the next four charges.

If you'd like to try a powder that works very well in most powder measures, try Alliant Power Pistol or Hodgdon Titegroup for 9mm loads.
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Old May 29, 2010, 01:37 PM   #12
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Sevens has a good point, a good test is to dump 10 charges into your scales and divide by 10, (makes it easy for us non-mathematicians) and if your load isn’t what you started out with on single dump, you know you have a problem with your measurer.

And never, never never start out with MAX load.
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Old May 30, 2010, 03:18 PM   #13
jhart
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I loaded some 115gr FMJ, with 6.1 gr of unique, the case OAL was 1.100". They showed a little bit of mushrooming on the primer face, so I am going to back the load down to 5.7gr. But overall they performed great, no malfunctions at all. Thanks for all the input everyone.
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Old June 1, 2010, 03:00 PM   #14
WillyBow8
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I too have a new Ruger SR9. I shot it for the second time this past weekend with almost the exact Unique loads that you are proposing. I can not remember what AOL Iloaded to, but the head was 115gr RN. It shot well and I had no cycling problem what so ever.

The groups were high which might mean the loads were a bit hot, but with a Ruger I sorta doubt it. Anyway, I think you'd be OK with those Unique loads that you are proposing.
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Old June 1, 2010, 10:38 PM   #15
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If I read you thread right you have an SR9 Ruger. I myself have the PR 95 and was suprised as to how accurate my gun shot. Anway, (I digress) my pistol shot well until I cleaned it one day and the next my pistol went to the sooting range it would not cycle. I later found out that I had cleaned the pistol to well. I recleaned and relubed and relubed again and my cycling problem has not returned. (My pistol was to dry)

Just a thought;
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