3.5" 45ACP Accuracy Load

gmt210 · May 13, 2010, 06:58 AM

I'm looking for next step recommendations on a reasonable target load for a Colt MK-IV Series 80 Officer 3.5" 45ACP.

I've started with W231 5.0gr to 5.4gr without much consistancy, random 6" groupings at 7yds, without any signs of key-holing, leading or jams though.

Current Components to play with:
Cast WW + 1% SN, air-cooled, Alox & JPW tumble lubed.
Lee 200 grain SWC, Sized .0015 over bore size.
Measured Bhn 15.8 hardness, avg of 5.
W231, Tightgroup, Universal Clays, H110, SR7625.
Wolf LP primers
Sufficient quantities of multiple case brands
Hornady LNL
Hornady New Dimension Carbide dies & Lee FCD

Thanks GMT

wxl · May 13, 2010, 02:30 PM

6 inch group at 7 yds is not accepable BUT is tis free hand? Have you tried shooting off a rest? May be your loads but would not expect 6 inch group. How much reloading have you done? If it is your procedure, then new recipe may not help.

kodiakbeer · May 13, 2010, 03:02 PM

Short barrel - go with the fastest powder you have.

Burn rates: http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

helg · May 13, 2010, 03:52 PM

I would shoot a mag or two of factory ammo under the same conditions to check if the groups shrink. It may well be an inconsistent locking or some other problem with the gun.

And... you shoot from a rest, right?

gmt210 · May 13, 2010, 08:01 PM

Answers & Clarifications:

Bore had previously slugged out to 0.4512, I size my cast bullets to 0.4528. I am very familiar with the Lee FCD, crimp just barely removes the flare & pulled bullets measure 0.4525. I recheck and pull the first couple every time I change headstamps.

7yd reference was done indoors with 2 hands, did not have factory ammo with me to try. I usually do not have any trouble holding my CZ-75D or GP100 to well under 1.5" at those distances off with my cast reloads with medium and full power loads. I've loaded and shot 1,000's or those rounds. This 45 is new to me.

I don't consider the recoil to be out of the ordinary, and surely less than the medium to full power 357 loads.

I agree that the Officer should do better than this at the short distance. I need to pickup some factory ammo and see how it shoots from a rest.

helg · May 13, 2010, 09:13 PM

Carbide ring on the 45 FCD is .474" (you can measure yours to check). Brass walls at the deepest point where the bullet seats are .011" thick (you can measure your brass as well). With this numbers, the largest bullet that is not being deformed by the ring is .474-2*.011 = .452". You see, it is on the edge in your case.

Try to do the same math with your numbers to see is your bullet being deformed in your shell. If you find that it is, and this is a source of the problem, you can open carbide ring to a desired diameter with a fired shell and valve lapping compound. 45ACP caliber has only .004" taper (.473" at neck and .476" at web), and oversized cast bullets can be touched by FCD' carbon ring.

Tacoma · May 13, 2010, 09:49 PM

3.9gr of clays (not universal clays!) behind that 200 gr lead SWC should be sweet in that gun. Burns clean too!

WESHOOT2 · May 15, 2010, 12:48 AM

My uber-accuracy 45 ACP gets Bullseye first.

If that doesn't succeed I switch bullets.
If that doesn't succeed I switch to Nitro 100
or AA2 or AA2 Improved or 700X or W231.

Sidewinder72 · May 15, 2010, 01:29 PM

My accuracy load for hardcast bullets are 5.6 W231 and 200 grn hardcast. I do not use a FC die. 45's are picky on cast bullets. Load short and most will cycle fine. I started with bullseye but got better accuracy with W231.

gmt210 · June 1, 2010, 08:21 PM

It appears that I have a sloppy housing/bushing/barrel fit. I can wiggle the assembly without much effort.

Any 1911 gunsmith recommendations for Northeast Ohio?

GMT

WESHOOT2 · June 2, 2010, 10:37 AM

www.americanpistol.com

And Brownells (www.Brownells.com) also has a gunsmith listing.

iblong · June 2, 2010, 11:45 AM

My Series 80 officer has had reliability work done and shoots the loads below very well.

230 gr.Rn or fmj. a little under 800 fps
5.3 gr.231/hp38
seated 1.268

5.3 and 5.5gr 231
200gr hard cast lswc. about 850 fps average
seated 1.250

5.5gr Unique a little under 800 fps.
230 LRN
seated 1.250

not hot loads but very goog accuracy in mine.

sorry, the above velocities were in my 5" did not crony out of my officer.

hoistfixer · June 2, 2010, 12:31 PM

I load the following:

Remington 230gr FMJ
Remington Brass
CCI 300 Large Pistol Primers
7.0 gr IMR Hi-skor 800-X

Pistol - S&W 457S w/3-3/4" barrel

Grouping 1" to 1-1/2" at 7yds standing two hand stance

Fire Rate - Slow - definitely no double taps

gmt210 · June 3, 2010, 06:28 PM

Well I finally had some time to take down my Colt Officer's ACP and here are the numbers.

Housing ID = 0.765
Bushing OD = 0.759
Bushing ID = 0.703
Barrel OD = 0.694

Based on these numbers I would have a total stacked clearance of 0.0075 if I'm thinking about this correctly.

Looks like I need to order a bushing from EGW, while I'm ordering has anyone tried EGW's reverse plug and guide rod kit?

GMT

May 13, 2010, 06:58 AM	#1
gmt210 Junior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 11	3.5" 45ACP Accuracy Load I'm looking for next step recommendations on a reasonable target load for a Colt MK-IV Series 80 Officer 3.5" 45ACP. I've started with W231 5.0gr to 5.4gr without much consistancy, random 6" groupings at 7yds, without any signs of key-holing, leading or jams though. Current Components to play with: Cast WW + 1% SN, air-cooled, Alox & JPW tumble lubed. Lee 200 grain SWC, Sized .0015 over bore size. Measured Bhn 15.8 hardness, avg of 5. W231, Tightgroup, Universal Clays, H110, SR7625. Wolf LP primers Sufficient quantities of multiple case brands Hornady LNL Hornady New Dimension Carbide dies & Lee FCD Thanks GMT

May 15, 2010, 12:48 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	since my dies are set My uber-accuracy 45 ACP gets Bullseye first. If that doesn't succeed I switch bullets. If that doesn't succeed I switch to Nitro 100 or AA2 or AA2 Improved or 700X or W231.

June 2, 2010, 10:37 AM	#11
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	look here www.americanpistol.com And Brownells (www.Brownells.com) also has a gunsmith listing.

June 2, 2010, 12:31 PM	#13
hoistfixer Member Join Date: December 31, 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 30	3-3/4" Barrel .45ACP I load the following: Remington 230gr FMJ Remington Brass CCI 300 Large Pistol Primers 7.0 gr IMR Hi-skor 800-X Pistol - S&W 457S w/3-3/4" barrel Grouping 1" to 1-1/2" at 7yds standing two hand stance Fire Rate - Slow - definitely no double taps

May 13, 2010, 02:30 PM	#2
wxl Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 81	6 inch group at 7 yds is not accepable BUT is tis free hand? Have you tried shooting off a rest? May be your loads but would not expect 6 inch group. How much reloading have you done? If it is your procedure, then new recipe may not help.

May 13, 2010, 03:02 PM	#3
kodiakbeer Junior member Join Date: April 10, 2010 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 791	Short barrel - go with the fastest powder you have. Burn rates: http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

May 13, 2010, 03:52 PM	#4
helg Junior Member Join Date: May 13, 2010 Posts: 2	I would shoot a mag or two of factory ammo under the same conditions to check if the groups shrink. It may well be an inconsistent locking or some other problem with the gun. And... you shoot from a rest, right?

May 13, 2010, 08:01 PM	#5
gmt210 Junior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 11	Answers & Clarifications: Bore had previously slugged out to 0.4512, I size my cast bullets to 0.4528. I am very familiar with the Lee FCD, crimp just barely removes the flare & pulled bullets measure 0.4525. I recheck and pull the first couple every time I change headstamps. 7yd reference was done indoors with 2 hands, did not have factory ammo with me to try. I usually do not have any trouble holding my CZ-75D or GP100 to well under 1.5" at those distances off with my cast reloads with medium and full power loads. I've loaded and shot 1,000's or those rounds. This 45 is new to me. I don't consider the recoil to be out of the ordinary, and surely less than the medium to full power 357 loads. I agree that the Officer should do better than this at the short distance. I need to pickup some factory ammo and see how it shoots from a rest.

May 13, 2010, 09:13 PM	#6
helg Junior Member Join Date: May 13, 2010 Posts: 2	Carbide ring on the 45 FCD is .474" (you can measure yours to check). Brass walls at the deepest point where the bullet seats are .011" thick (you can measure your brass as well). With this numbers, the largest bullet that is not being deformed by the ring is .474-2*.011 = .452". You see, it is on the edge in your case. Try to do the same math with your numbers to see is your bullet being deformed in your shell. If you find that it is, and this is a source of the problem, you can open carbide ring to a desired diameter with a fired shell and valve lapping compound. 45ACP caliber has only .004" taper (.473" at neck and .476" at web), and oversized cast bullets can be touched by FCD' carbon ring.

May 13, 2010, 09:49 PM	#7
Tacoma Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2004 Location: SE New England Posts: 620	3.9gr of clays (not universal clays!) behind that 200 gr lead SWC should be sweet in that gun. Burns clean too!

May 15, 2010, 01:29 PM	#9
Sidewinder72 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 130	My accuracy load for hardcast bullets are 5.6 W231 and 200 grn hardcast. I do not use a FC die. 45's are picky on cast bullets. Load short and most will cycle fine. I started with bullseye but got better accuracy with W231.

June 1, 2010, 08:21 PM	#10
gmt210 Junior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 11	It appears that I have a sloppy housing/bushing/barrel fit. I can wiggle the assembly without much effort. Any 1911 gunsmith recommendations for Northeast Ohio? GMT

June 2, 2010, 11:45 AM	#12
iblong Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2008 Location: MN Posts: 559	My Series 80 officer has had reliability work done and shoots the loads below very well. 230 gr.Rn or fmj. a little under 800 fps 5.3 gr.231/hp38 seated 1.268 5.3 and 5.5gr 231 200gr hard cast lswc. about 850 fps average seated 1.250 5.5gr Unique a little under 800 fps. 230 LRN seated 1.250 not hot loads but very goog accuracy in mine. sorry, the above velocities were in my 5" did not crony out of my officer.

June 3, 2010, 06:28 PM	#14
gmt210 Junior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 11	Well I finally had some time to take down my Colt Officer's ACP and here are the numbers. Housing ID = 0.765 Bushing OD = 0.759 Bushing ID = 0.703 Barrel OD = 0.694 Based on these numbers I would have a total stacked clearance of 0.0075 if I'm thinking about this correctly. Looks like I need to order a bushing from EGW, while I'm ordering has anyone tried EGW's reverse plug and guide rod kit? GMT