How to Kill Primers

[Dis-1-Shooter]

Became aware that one can not use Remington 1 1/2 small pistol primers for reloading 40 S&W. Well, I have 2,000 cases prep and primed with Remington 1 1/2 small pistol primers . How do I safely defuse the primers for removal? I was thinking that I soak the primers in motor oil, degrease, dry and deprime with a 45 ACP deprime die (with a 45 ACP deprime die I think it will not change the bell on the brass). What is everyone's thoughts or suggestions.

Thanks

[Sport45]

You can search the forums about killing primers and find lots of opinions. I believe the consensus is that there's no guaranteed effective way to kill them. Do you reload for something that does use Remington 1-1/2 primers? If so, I recommend cleaning up your spent primer collection system, putting on your eyes and ears and start depriming with a .45acp or universal depriming die. Collect the primers and use them for reloading range fodder.

Just don't put all 2000 of them in a glass jar. I'd separate them into ziplok bags of 100 or so if I didn't have the original trays to store them in.

[Unclenick]

Why would a standard small pistol primer not be suitable in such a short case? All the Hodgdon listed 40 S&W loads use a standard small pistol primer, though theirs is Winchester.

None of the immersion methods of spoiling primers has proven reliable. Some have been soaked in WD-40 and other penetrants for over 2 weeks and still fired. Ditto water-base solutions. If you have a reason other than misinformation for removing the primers, wear glasses, gloves, and hearing protection, and gently decap them with your sizing die. Reuse them later.

[SL1]

1. Why not just use them for lower-pressure plinking loads. The problem is with high pressures around 35,000 psi. But,they should be OK with loads that develop 20,000 to 25,000 psi. I can make loads in that range that cycle my P-229 nicely.

or, 2. You can decap those case without deactivating the primers. The key is to do it SLOWLY. It IS possible that one could go off, and, if it does, it will come flying out of the pocket with some speed. So, wear eye protection when you do it. But, usually, you can do it without setting any off. Also, don't let the still-live primers get loose on the floor, because you are more likely to set one off down there by accident than you are when you carefully deprime them.

but, 3. If you are dead-set on deactivating them, it is pretty hard to do with any reliability. Getting them wet or soaking them in oil MIGHT work, but they are ususally manufactured to be resistant to those things. So, it might works on some but not ALL of them. How would you know? For that reason, I think it is best to treat them as live and deal with them that way. Of course, you could put each one in your gun and fire it, but, that takes a lot of effort.

SL1

[jepp2]

+1 on using them with low pressure loads. I would think given where you are, that is the lowest risk option.

I have deprimed live primers and reused them, but I never had to deal with 2000. There is always the potential to set one off, and the question if the extra pressure on the anvil from decapping changes the primers ability to initiate.

[SwampYankee]

The issue with the 1 1/2 primers is that the cup is thinner than the 5 1/2 and they may flow into the firing pin hole more easily. That said, I have used them in the past for moderate loads and never had a problem. If it were me, I would shoot 10 of them and see what happens.

You will not be able to disable those primers chemically. Many have tried, all have failed. I have deprimed hundreds (sadly) of primers using standard dies and never had one detonate. SL1 is right, if you go slowly, you should not have a problem.

you could put each one in your gun and fire it

This is really your best option for assuring the primers are 100% disarmed. I've done that too...

[Dis-1-Shooter]

To Unclenick, Remington warns about using their 1 1/2 small pistol primers in 40 S&W, 357 SIG and 357 Mag loads. The Remington 5 1/2 small pistol primers are better. I was not aware of this until I read a tread pertaining to the subject in the forums. Thanks for everyone's response and suggestions. I will sit on the 2,000 cases until I decide what to do with them. I am leaning toward the low pressure loads for plinking option. As always, I will test a few samples first.

[SwampYankee]

Yes, Remington does warn about it. But that is because Remington is a large company trying to mitigate liability. 40 S&W is a high pressure round and if you load really hot .40 S&W, the pressure may be a problem for thin primers. But frankly, I suspect this issue is somewhat overblown. If you were to keep to starting loads, you will not have a problem.

[rattletrap1970]

I'd finish loading a round or two, fire them, and check the condition of the primer. Unless you are loading the crap out of the rounds I'd say you'll be ok.

[reloader28]

I'm with everyone else. Dont throw them away. That $70 worth of primers around here.Load a few light to medium rounds and try them. As long as they're hot enough that your gun cycles, they should be perfectly fine.

[margiesex]

Frankly, I don't understand the issue at all. Some mention higher pressure - yet they rec. a mag. small pistol primer in the .357! Sounds like a backward statement to me.

I have loaded 1k's of .40's with the 1 and 1/2 - I did NOT know about the warning - and they all work just fine.

However, my load is 5.4 grains of Unique - which is: a. the accuracy load in the Sierra 50th manual with 180 grain bullets; and b. Only a tick above the starting load of Unique which is 5.1 grains in the same manual.

Therefore, though I won't load any more .40's with the Rem. Primers (beside, who would manufacture a primer that doesn't work in one of, if not the most popular calibers out there, anyway? so let's say I'm suspicious of it all) - I'll go with something else.

(all of which people carp about - CCI's malfunction; Wolf's too hard for semi's, Fed. blow up in your hand primer tray;....)

All that said, I have also pulled my share of unfired primers over the years, too. And, again, never had a problem. The process I use has been mentioned above - I simply run them through (yes, slowly) the decapping/resize die of the same caliber. I have reused them all, and can say that NONE have ever not fired, or have come apart in the decapping process, nor have any exploded as I decapped.

Sorry you have so many primed cases - that is a bummer.

God bless.

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and sooner than we think.

P. S. Has anyone HAD a bad experience with the Rem. primers in a .40? I'd like to hear what happened.

[oneounceload]

Just deprime the cases and trade them with someone who can use them - it isn't hard, and can be very easily done if you don't try and do it like you're on an assembly line

[NavyLT]

Just poke them out with a decapper. You'll be fine.

[SwampYankee]

Some mention higher pressure - yet they rec. a mag. small pistol primer in the .357! Sounds like a backward statement to me.

There is a lot of confusion about the 5 1/2 Remington primer. Many people believe that it is a magnum primer. It is not a magnum primer, it simply has a harder, thicker cup. The explosive charge in a 1 1/2 and a 5 1/2 is the same. The consequence is that you will get misfires when using 5 1/2 primers if your gun has a light hammer strike.

[Inspector3711]

Just punch them out gently. You can usually reuse them. WEAR SAFETY GLASSES just in case.

[Shoney]

What amazes me is that the 357Sig and 9mm also have high pressure loadings, but were not mentioned in the Remington caveat.

SL1 in post #4 says it for me.

I have used around 8K 1.5 Remington primers in 40SW cast plinking loads.

[GP100man]

I`ve loaded many a load with 1 1/2 rem primers & never blew 1 or even thought it was close .purty sure I ran em to 35,000 psi maybe even more!

1 1/2 are "softer" than 5 1/2 though, I had a 586 that refused to hit em hard enuff to make em pop !

I now opt for WW & I feel there "softer" than the rems.

As far as decappin em just have your eyes & ears on & go slow, but I`d try my load first !!

[PCJim]

I just posted in another thread regarding the Rem 1 1/2 primers. As long as you are not loading to maximum charge, you should not have a problem. I, too, wonder why they aren't including the 9mm cartridge, a similar high pressure round, in their safety warning.

[rc]

That sucks!!! But don't lose all hope. It looks to me like Remington doesn't trust their own primers to hold high pressures. Winchester small pistol primers work fine in magnum loads with flake powders. As far as I know so do CCI small pistol primers. I don't know what's going through those flakes heads at Remington. If you are worried about using full pressure 40 S&W loads at about 35,000psi, you can still loade those cases with reduced target loads at around 20,000psi and should be fine. You should be able to load lead 155 LSWC bullets to about 850fps to 950fps using Winchester 231 or AA#5 and they should be pleasant accurate loads that will still function in your pistol. Punching out primers etc etc, is in my opinion too much work and more of a hassle than just adjusting your loads to work with those primers. rc

[Sport45]

Rock185's post in another thread. YMMV

[bluetopper]

Load a few of them up as you originally intended. I'll bet they will work just fine.

I believe in being cautious as much as the next guy but in this case I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Unclenick]

Swamp Yankee,

Are you sure the 5 1/2 isn't magnum? Their 7 1/2 BR sure is, though their online table doesn't use the term "magnum". I've seen it take velocity and pressure up 5% over a Federal 205 with the same powder charge. Also, they don't make any other SP primer for the purpose. Just curious.

[Elkins45]

I suspect you would be putting yourself in less danger by shooting them in low pressure plinking loads than you would if you decapped all 2K of them.

At least when shooting them you have a gun between you and the explosion!

If you do decide to decap them then wear thick gloves, and dual (shield+goggles) eye protection.

[SwampYankee]

Unlenick,

I'm sure they are not magnum. I've run them both side by side (1 1/2 and 5 1/2) and seen no significant or reproducible difference in velocity. I have to admit though, I have only used one powder for this test. The other two standard/magnum pistol primers I have compared are the CCI 300 and 350s and you get an easy 30 fps increase with the 350 magnums. Sometimes it will spike to 50 fps or more.

Additionally, neither the .40 S&W nor the .357 SIG require a magnum primer for even HS-6 (which does require a magnum primer in some .45 colt loads). Yet Remington recommends using the 5 1/2 for .40 S&W, .357 SIG and .357 Magnum as standard practice. As you know, you don't generally pick a magnum vs. standard primer based on caliber- you do it based on specific powder and charge. It seems like a very, VERY bad idea for Remington to be cavalierly recommending regular use of magnum primers to users of these already very high pressure calibers.

Every reloading manual in the world, out of an abundance of caution says, "Don't use magnum primers in .357 magnum". Of course you can but they are just covering their collective behinds by trying to stop new reloaders from blowing themselves up. Why would Remington decide to buck this trend in liability coverage?

Finally, a guy on another forum was tired of this constant debate. So he called up Remington and they said the only difference is the cup thickness. I'm reposting his post and a link here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloadi...l-primers.html

rem 1&1/2 vs rem 5&1/2, being disatisfied with all forum answers about a year ago, i call rem factory, and got this answer. NO change in
power, just cup thickness. they use 5&1/2 for factory loaded 357 sig and 40 S&W to prevent flow-back into the firing pin opening. i use it for everything including 38spl & 380 with no problems. they said it is NOT a magnum primer.

john

I'm satisfied that they are not magnum primers.

[medalguy]

Just FWIW, I had 18,000 rounds of corrosive .30-06 that I bought really cheap many years ago. I pulled the bullets and saved the powder to reuse, but I wanted to get rid of those corrosive primers. I tried soaking them in soapy water for several days, then deprimed them. I went VERY slowly and carefully and had only one primer detonate on me. They still had water in them when I deprimed them, and even with the soaking wet brass one primer fired. Not bad, and it really woke me up, but the worst part was having to remove the die and wash it off so it didn't rust.

The moral of this story is, if you still want to deprime the brass, it's unlikely you can destroy the primer. Just use an RCBS universal depriming tool and work very slowly and very carefully.