Some Questions

[jman841]

Ok so i started reloading this week and have come across a few different questions.

I am loading for .308 win with the lee classic set. I purchased a bunch of other odds and ends for it as well.

First, i picked up a Nosler reloading book, not thinking about the fact that the bullets i bought were hornady. Will the loads for the Nosler rounds transfer over equally well as long as i use the charts for the same weight bullets?

Second, I accidentally picked up a box of 7.62 x 51 corrosive ammo. So i decided to pull the bullets and reload them into my own brass with my own primers. The brass i loaded it in was also 7.62 x 51mm brass, can i just use the same powder from the original load in the new brass without any problems? Also, since it is only the primer that is corrosive, am i all set? or is the powder corrosive as well.

Next, another accidental purchase was i got some .308 150 gr Round Nose bullets. Can these be safely and properly loaded into a .308 win rifle? I know that they are intended for .30-30 lever guns. And what COL would be appropriate for the RN in a .308 bolt action because they bullets are so much shorter than the regular 150 gn. FMJ's i have.

Finally, I have alot of 7.62 x 51mm brass that i resized and trimmed. How much less grains should i start with for a load using the Military brass which has a little less area? I am using IMR 4064 and i also have a pound of H4895.

ok 1 more... what is your favorite powder to use for .308 win? I wanted to pick up some Varget but they didnt have any at them time.

Sorry for all the questions but thank you for any answers.

Jason

[jman841]

Also, for some reason my reloads are very tight fitting in the chamber of my rifle. I have a Rem M700 SPS-V and it is fairly difficult to close the bolt on the reloads. I checked all the dimensions with the book and with factory ammo i have and it seems to be identical. Not sure why this is happening? Is it safe to fire?

[5R milspec]

first of all I would throw away the old powder/brass.no need to use it at all.and the RN bullets should be OK to load.or you can seat one to see if it will give you a 2.800 measurement.if so its good to go.and yes the noler book will be a good guid to loading any type of name brand bullet.and with a milspec case I would start at a lower end and work up.if you have a 168 grain bullet I might would try 42g of 4064 and work up.and make sure that your die is set up correctly.run your die in till it touches the shell holder then give it 1/4 more of a turn and this should work just fine.and with milspec brass that is mostly shot out of an auto is blown out because of the over sized chamber.you might need to get a small body die to help with this.when a case is resized it should chamber with no problem.but some shooter's like to feel a little resistance.this is when the die is set up to bump the shpulder back at just .002 of an inch.jusst take your time and be safe.when in doubt ask a question.and things will be just fine.hope this is what you are looking for in an answer.....John

[Uncle H]

I've had very good luck with Varget under 168gr. Sierra Game Kings.

Haven't ever used mil-spec brass other than new IMI.

[Unclenick]

jman841,

I am not following perfectly, but I infer these are Hornady round nose bullets loaded in the rounds that are fitting tightly? If so (or even if not), the problem is most likely that they are seated out too far and are jamming into the throat of the rifling. A short, blunt or round shape cannot be seated out as far as a pointy shape, so 2.800" will not be a correct Cartridge Overall Length (COL) for those round nose bullets. The Hornady manual includes the same 150 grain round nose bullet for both 30-30 and .308. The correct COL for that bullet in the .308 is 2.520".

Second, be aware that how deeply you seat a bullet in the case changes the peak pressure on firing. This is because it changes the amount of room the powder burns in behind bullet. Changing the case brand also changes the amount of room, particularly in .308 where there is a significant range in case weight and internal volume, brand to brand. The outsides are about the same but the insides are not. So, in order for a load from one cartridge to go to another unchanged, you must verify not only the weight of the bullet matches, but also that the base of the bullet goes into the cases the same amount. This is called seating depth. You must also verify the cases have the same internal capacity or that the new case has a larger capacity than the original. Larger will lower pressure.

To verify the seating depth for two different bullets is the same, Measure the length of each bullet type. The difference in length will be the difference in COL when both have the same seating depth. If one bullet is 1/4" shorter than the other, then its COL will be 1/4" shorter when the seating depths for the two are the same.

Second is the matter of case capacity. If the outside dimensions of the two cases are the same, the lighter case has more capacity. Don't forget to include the weight of the primers. If the two are not quite the same, or one is Boxer primed while the other is Berdan primed, then case capacity is measured by the weight of the water each case will hold. In general, military cases have the least capacity, while Winchester brand cases have the most. Remington and other commercial brands are in between.

[5R milspec]

unclenick glade you caught that for me.I am so sorry that I posted that you should be OK a an OAL of 2.800 with a RN bullet.I guess I was thinking of a pointed bullet when I replied.don't really use RN bullets.as I said I am sorry for the wrong OAL of 2.800.but glade unclenick caught me on it.

[jman841]

Hmm, interesting. I'll pull the bullet from the one i made and try again. Also I found out the reason it was fitting tight in the chamber was because i did not seat the die low enough. I had it flush with the press instead of Flush plus a 1/4 of a turn. After adjusting that it fixed it. however i made about 20 or so rounds already and will probably shoot them as they are not to tight.

For seating depth, i used the ring around the bullet as a marker. Not sure if this is the correct way to do it or not but (sorry for wrong terminology) i seated it so the ring was just above the cartridge and lightly crimped it in place there. I was under the impression that the COL of 2.800" was the maximum allowed COL however it could be less than that. Mine varied, waht is the minimum COL that would still be safe to fire, using the 150 gr FMJ BT hornady's?

I test fired one of the round noses and it worked, not sure how accuracy is going to be but it didn't blow the gun up or show any signs of case damage so thats a good start.

[Sport45]

Originally Posted by jman841

however i made about 20 or so rounds already and will probably shoot them as they are not to tight.

Load in batches of 5 or so until you find the combination that your rifle likes. You don't gain anything blasting away ammo once you've seen it doesn't group worth a hoot.

There's really no need to crimp for bolt guns and your brass will last longer if you don't.

[jman841]

yea, it was 5 batches of 4 with different loads in them. I did sets of 4 because my rifle's magazine holds 4. And thanks for the heads up on the crimping, ive read a few different things about doing it. Some people say it helps maintain constant pressure and will increase accuracy. However others say its only needed if using an autoloader or if the ammo is going to take some abuse for some reason.

[Uncle Buck]

Could he just try to seat the bullets deeper in the rounds he has already produced?

I have also wondered what the minimum OAL should/would be for different cartridges. Is there a safe way to figure it out?

[wncchester]

" Will the loads for the Nosler rounds transfer over equally well as long as i use the charts for the same weight bullets?"

Yes.


"The brass i loaded it in was also 7.62 x 51mm brass, can i just use the same powder from the original load in the new brass without any problems?"

Yes, but it would be safer if you drop maybe a half grain or more off each charge to be sure.


"only the primer that is corrosive, am i all set?"

Yes. And even if you did shoot the corrosive, it's not fatal. It's really pretty easy to clean out with a few water-wetted patches followed by oil.


" is the powder corrosive as well."

No.


"i got some .308 150 gr Round Nose bullets. Can these be safely and properly loaded into a .308 win rifle?"

Yes.


I know that they are intended for .30-30 lever guns."

Try to load in the speed range of a 30-30 and they will be good for deer, much faster and they may blow up on game and fail to penetrate. If you're just blowing them down range on targets shoot any safe velocity you wish.


"what COL would be appropriate for the RN in a .308 bolt action because they bullets are so much shorter than the regular 150 gn. FMJ's i have."

Any COAL that will fit in your magazine will be fine but why not just seat and/or crimp them at the cannalure for now?


"Finally, I have alot of 7.62 x 51mm brass that i resized and trimmed. How much less grains should i start with for a load using the Military brass which has a little less area?"

The "rule" for any routine load change is to drop back to, or at least near, the suggested starting load levels and watch for pressure signs as you work up towards book max limits. That is all you need do to compensate for ANY component change, simply using a different rifle from what the book makers used is a far bigger change than a case or bullet or powder lot change, etc, can be.


"I am using IMR 4064 and i also have a pound of H4895."

Both are fine powders for that round, and both are actually very close to Varget.

[Powderman]

Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I was under the distinct impression that there is really no such thing as corrosive 7.62 NATO. Am I wrong?

[wncchester]

"I was under the distinct impression that there is really no such thing as corrosive 7.62 NATO. Am I wrong?"

I know the US never made any (I think I know that), but them other NATO guys I don't know much about.

[jman841]

It was actually some old sellier & bellot. Think it might have been commercial .308. The box is green and labeled with 7.62 x 51 and .308 win.

I made some test loads today with seating the Hornady 150 Gr FMJ-BT's at a COL of 2.800 instead of seating them at the cannalure. When seating at the cannalure the COL is around 2.720 which seems kinda short.

Is there any negative consequences to seating a bullet short of the maximum COL?

[Unclenick]

The only U.S. made corrosive 7.62x51 was the Frankford Arsenal 1956 International Match ammunition. The rest is non-corrosive.

Sellier & Bellot is in Czechoslovakia, and would have been manufacturing non-corrosive ammo long before the U.S. was. They didn't begin manufacturing to CIP standards unit 1972, and I don't believe they started exporting to the US until they were de-nationalized in 1992. It is therefore extremely unlikely that anything of theirs that is on this side of the pond is corrosive unless it says so on the label.

If you are unsure, you can email them to ask: [email protected]. Give them the label information and any lot data that may be on in. They became an ISO 9001 company in 1998, so records should be in good order, though I don't know how far back?

[jman841]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...?a=597940&pn=1

that is what it is. It says it is corrosive but it is .308 win not 7.62 x 51 Nato.

Mine is stamped 83 so i believe that is the year it was manufactured.

[Unclenick]

I still have a bunch of .308 that came in those same blue boxes that I got in '92. I think maybe they were 146 grain bullets when I pulled and measured them? The powder was a stick powder and I recall it was packed very tightly and was very hard to shake out of the cases. Had to use a swizzle stick to loosen some of it. Lousy ammo, too, often firing weakly and failing to make my M1A cycle and terribly inaccurate. Also Berdan primed. Not corrosive though. I shot the stuff for a week at a training school. Fortunately I'd taken some match handloads, too, because this stuff wasn't up to hitting things at a distance. It was just cheap. We cleaned the guns once a day, but I never saw any indication it was corrosive and it was not sold to me as such, or I would not have bought it.

Mine came in a wood crate og 1060 cartridges. I still have the crate and it is labeled ".308 Winchester (7,62 x 51 mm)" as were the blue boxes. "123/82" is in the corner of the crate. The headstamps say ".308Win O 82 O" wrapping around the head, with the letter's O on a diameter opposite one another and between the name and date. The cases have military style annealing discoloration at the shoulder and neck, and there is red primer sealant on the primers. Only the headstamp suggests it's not military. The Letter O is a Sellier and Bellot stamp. I don't know of anyone was still making corrosive primers at that late date, but I won't say never. I just think Sportsman's Guide may be in error in this instance.

Again, checking with S&B by e-mail may be the best bet.