Polymer in collection?

Firepower! · October 27, 2009, 02:30 PM

Hi
How much are polymer handguns valuable in collection from a long term point of view. I some how dont see them as collectables. For eg: I see more value in GP100 than HK USP CT from collection aspect. Whereas in reaility HK is worth more. I am not sure why, but when it comes to polymer, I see them purely utilitarian weapons and not for collection.

What do you think?

stevieboy · October 27, 2009, 02:59 PM

In our society people collect EVERYTHING. What is today's utilitarian article may be tomorrow's valued antique. For that reason I wouldn't rule out the possibility that today's plastic framed semiautos may be tomorrow's collector's items.

One thing that will undercut their value as collectibles in the short run, however, is the volume in which they're being churned out by manufacturers. A Glock isn't exactly a difficult item to come by these days. But, who knows how easily one will be able to find one in 50 years?

jhco50 · October 27, 2009, 03:01 PM

Keep in mind this is my opinion. I don't think polymer will last as long as steel and therefore, will probably won't be around in a hundred years or so, at least in perfect working order. Polymer is plastic, pure and simple. I would imagine it will become brittle at some point in the future, maybe a 100 years or so, but it will deteriorate in some fashion.

Also, I see steel and wood making a comeback in some circles. I think people get tired of the Buck Rodgers looks of some polymer guns and yearn for something prettier they can enjoy and eventually pass down to their grandchildren.

Plastic was supposed to keep prices down on the manufacturing level so that companies could hold lower prices. All it really did was widen the profit margin for manufacturers.

So, to the question. No, I don't think polymer guns will hold their value like metal guns. This is not in all cases though. There will be exceptions.

Skans · October 27, 2009, 03:56 PM

Polymer guns will never be worth what steel guns are worth....that's because, 1,000 years from now there will still be plenty of Glocks with their polymer frames in perfect condition. Most other guns, except for a few rare examples, will revert back to iron dust.

I also predict that Global Warming will create massive amounts of new water, especially salt water, so anything made of metal is doomed.

TMUSCLE1 · October 27, 2009, 04:01 PM

I think certain polymer's will become more collectable as time goes by. Like someone said before with modern manufacturing processes they will be worth less because of the sheer number.

Speaking of the future...I think new material frames will be part of the technological advancement in firearms. I don't know what they will think of next, maybe a better polymer? I just think that will be the new thing within the next decade.

Daryl · October 27, 2009, 04:44 PM

Folks can collect what they want, and I'll do the same.

I've ownd polymer, shot polymer, and don't care for polymer for my own uses, so I'll stick with metal.

Which should make polymer lovers very happy, since it leaves more for them to buy.

Daryl

#18indycolts · October 27, 2009, 05:35 PM

to each his own, I own nothing but poly...no need for steel.

natjohnb · October 27, 2009, 10:59 PM

I'm the opposite^^^

No more poly in my collection

jhco50 · October 28, 2009, 12:29 AM

Quote "Polymer guns will never be worth what steel guns are worth....that's because, 1,000 years from now there will still be plenty of Glocks with their polymer frames in perfect condition. Most other guns, except for a few rare examples, will revert back to iron dust.

I also predict that Global Warming will create massive amounts of new water, especially salt water, so anything made of metal is doomed."
=======================================================================
Scans, I must be honest, that was funny.

The reason I come to my conclusions is because I have experience with plastics and natural materials. I am a straight razor user and have a site on the internet that teaches the Art of using them. Many of us have and use razors that are a hundred or more years old. Some are less than a hundred, out of the 20th century.

Natural materials last for the most part, but do show their age somewhat. That is just for information. Plastics, however may or may not make it. Cellulose (made from plants) especially can start deteriorating and will even ruin the blade of the razor with the gases it releases.

Newer plastics, say the 1950's are oil based products and hold up a bit better, but will become brittle.

Modern plastics are really tough and have there uses. For instance, Skoal tobacco comes in a plastic can and it is immensely better than the old cardboard cans. Modern plastics can really shine, but it is plastic. Polymer is just part of the scientific name for plastic.

Plastic, by it's very nature will have problems somewhere down the line. Isn't Smith & Wesson having a problem with the dust shield warping out of shape after shooting awhile? At least I have read posts on it.

As a rep from Glock once enumerated...when a gun with a plastic frame costs more than $200, it becomes polymer. I personally cannot trust polymer completely when it is around 50,000 psi of pressure. That is just one reason why I don't own one. That doesn't keep you from enjoying them...I just don't think they will all be in working condition in a 100 or so years.

CARGUY2244 · October 28, 2009, 12:44 AM

My S&W Performance Center revolvers are made from space age unobtanium, rare collectors' pistols with the recoil control of polymer, the rust resistance of blue steel, and accuracy only surpassed by my 1986 Model 19 that cost $269. But they sure look cool.

Playboypenguin · October 28, 2009, 12:52 AM

I have several polymer guns. H&K, Glock, and Kahr...but I consider them all tools and not collection pieces. They are not bought because they are beautiful or to pass down. They are bought to serve a purpose until replaced.

Elvishead · October 28, 2009, 12:58 AM

Firepower!

Quote:

What do you think?

I don't think.

I don't collect, I acquire. And when I'm dead, I don't need them.

One small, one tall, one skinny, one light, one heavy, one with a million, and one that only needs one.

More than poly guns, pretty much everything, but we all are human, and sometimes two of each is unavoidable. Sometimes we like different colors of the same thing.

Sport45 · October 28, 2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

How much are polymer handguns valuable in collection from a long term point of view.

Firearms in general, whether polymer or not, are not good investments if you are only concerned about their monetary value. Some older models are collectibles, but unless you buy from someone who doesn't know what they have you'll pay too much to make it a worthwhile investment. I say these things just from a dollars and cents standpoint.

I don't think it's any different than muscle cars a couple decades ago and tech stocks after that. If you want to make money you have to foresee the demand and then sell before the collapse. The things that someday will become collectibles are stuff that most folks throw away or abuse when they were new. Like tin lunch boxes from the 60's. I never knew I was eating my PB&J from a $100 box...

gyvel · October 28, 2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Polymer guns will never be worth what steel guns are worth....that's because, 1,000 years from now there will still be plenty of Glocks with their polymer frames in perfect condition. Most other guns, except for a few rare examples, will revert back to iron dust.

I also predict that Global Warming will create massive amounts of new water, especially salt water, so anything made of metal is doomed.

ROFLMAO!!

And what of the "metal" parts of the Glocks (slides, barrels, etc.)? Will these revert back to iron dust?? Will they be immune from the ravaging effects of the salt water???

Of course, with the impending global warming, you have overlooked the possibilty that the polymer frames might melt.

Skans · October 28, 2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Of course, with the impending global warming, you have overlooked the possibilty that the polymer frames might melt.

Hmmm, I might have to rethink my theory a bit.

I'm still waiting for the all ceramic gun to come out, equipped with ceramic springs and all. When it does, I'm getting it in faux chrome.

Brian Pfleuger · October 29, 2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Polymer is just part of the scientific name for plastic.

Plastic, by it's very nature will have problems somewhere down the line. Isn't Smith & Wesson having a problem with the dust shield warping out of shape after shooting awhile? At least I have read posts on it.

As a rep from Glock once enumerated...when a gun with a plastic frame costs more than $200, it becomes polymer. I personally cannot trust polymer completely when it is around 50,000 psi of pressure. That is just one reason why I don't own one. That doesn't keep you from enjoying them...I just don't think they will all be in working condition in a 100 or so years.

Saying that polymer is just another word for plastic is like saying steel is just another word for metal. Both are technically true statements.... and both are completely meaningless. Saying that something is made of "plastic" is exactly the same as saying that something is made of "metal".
Are you impressed with a gun made of "metal"? Uh, well, what kind of metal? You could make a gun out of mercury if you get it cold enough.
Same with plastic. What kind of plastic? The stuff they use to make legos.... or the "new" stuff? Stronger than steel, lighter than aluminum....

It's made of "plastic"... ok, is it....
Polymethyl methacrylate
Polytetrafluoroethylene
Polyetheretherketone (PEEK)
Polyetherimide
Phenolics
Urea-formaldehyde
Polypropylene (PP)
Polystyrene (PS)
High impact polystyrene (HIPS)
Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS)
Polyethylene terephthalate (PET)
Polyester (PES)
Polyamides (PA) (Nylons)
Poly(vinyl chloride) (PVC)
Polyurethanes (PU)
Polycarbonate (PC)
Polyvinylidene chloride (PVDC) (Saran)
Polyethylene (PE)

Or is it none of the above, one of the God only knows how many other varieties? I really wish people would stop saying "plastic" as if it tells you something about the strength or quality of an item.

I'm going to start referring to non-plastic guns as "metal", no matter if they're $50 pot-metal crap or stainless $2000 guns.

50,000psi? The plastic doesn't handle 50kpsi any more than the frame of a "metal" gun does. The barrel does ALL the pressure work. If the barrel fails then you're SOL, "plastic" or "metal".

headbangerJD · October 29, 2009, 11:57 AM

PEETZAKILLA!

BigJimP · October 29, 2009, 02:12 PM

I don't want or own any polymer guns ..... and they have no value long term in my opinion .....

But Peetzakilla / still wins the debate ...( but its all Tupperware, in my opinion ) ....and I don't like it either...

gyvel · October 29, 2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Or is it none of the above, one of the God only knows how many other varieties? I really wish people would stop saying "plastic" as if it tells you something about the strength or quality of an item.

Nevertheless, there are guns that are centuries old extant that are made of some form of ferrous material and wood. I just wonder how many guns with frames made of non-ferrous, non-metallic materials will survive.

Brian Pfleuger · October 29, 2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Nevertheless, there are guns that are centuries old extant that are made of some form of ferrous material and wood. I just wonder how many guns with frames made of non-ferrous, non-metallic materials will survive.

Two things:

1)The less than paper thin plastic of which we make water bottles is supposedly going to be clogging our landfills for millions of years to come, but I'm supposed to be worried that the much more high-tech, much thicker and reinforced plastic in my gun is going to break down and make it unusable in a couple of decades?

2)Even if it does, inexplicably IMO, break down then why do I care? Tell me that I'm really supposed to be buying a handgun based on the condition that it may be in, theoretically, 200 years from now? Just on the off chance that not just my son (or daughter) but my 3rd or 4th or 5th generation progeny will still give a damn about the gun that their great-great-great grandfather owned? Sure, there are guns that are 200 years old. How many of them have any TRUE sentimental value or family heritage? Every day on TFL there are posts about some gun that someone's father or grandfather owned, even fought in war with, and the owner is looking to see how much cash they can get for it. I'm sorry, theoretical potential for sentimental value in 100 years has no bearing on my decision. Frankly, it had no part of the decision with the guy who bought that 100 year old gun "NIB" either. 100 years ago they bought steel and wooded guns because.... it's all they had!

Sport45 · October 29, 2009, 09:22 PM

Wood isn't exactly a "for all the ages" material either. And yet there are wooden parts for all kinds of old stuff still around, even on firearms. I have no doubt that a polymer pistol frame or rifle stock with proper care will last every bit as long as the stock on a 1903A1.

Blue Grass · October 29, 2009, 09:31 PM

I don't collect for future value. All my fire arms are working shooters. Is there any evidence that shows polymer guns will break down in a certain length of time? I've read that plastic water bottles will take 400 years to break down. If plastic guns will last that long,why should we care? We will break down and decompose a long time before that. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust. Plastic to jellied dinosaurs.

Huntergirl · October 29, 2009, 10:07 PM

I do have some collectable guns, that I'm holding till retirement, then sell. Others are my shooters. The only poly I have is an XD45 and a Walther P99. They happen to be my current favorites.

finrot · October 29, 2009, 10:18 PM

I guess that the plastic water bottles must be a lot tougher than polymer frames since they are telling us that they will last 1000 years in a landfill.

Teuthis · October 29, 2009, 10:58 PM

Technology is progressing too fast for much of anything to be considered valuable for its longevity in the distant future. When I was a photographer I had fine, Leica and Nikon cameras that are now obsolete, and of little or no value. Black powder weapons made in the black powder era are now obsolete, and have value because so few of them survived, and are associated with a special history of our nation.

In not too many decades gunpowder will be obsolete and people will lose interest in the obsolete guns that shot bullets with it. Plastic pistols will have collectors value only if few of them survive.

The material used in the frames of the "plastic" frames could last for many decades. But it is likely at some point to catastrophically fail on short notice, if its essential oils degenerate. Who knows when and how that will occur. It is inevitable.

I believe that the older, more astutely and masterfully made Smith and Wesson revolvers will retain considerable value, as they are now no longer made. What Smith and Wesson is making now is certainly not nearly as well crafted. The obsolete calibers are already collectors items.

Some Rugers and Colts will share that distinction; but overall I believe the mass-produced, modern "plastic" framed handguns will not be highly sought after. They are not designed to be classics or treasures. Like all modern weapons of the military and police, they are designed to be used up and replaced.

October 28, 2009, 12:44 AM	#10
CARGUY2244 Junior member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Posts: 119	materials My S&W Performance Center revolvers are made from space age unobtanium, rare collectors' pistols with the recoil control of polymer, the rust resistance of blue steel, and accuracy only surpassed by my 1986 Model 19 that cost $269. But they sure look cool.

October 29, 2009, 11:57 AM	#17
headbangerJD Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 322	and the winner of the debate is... PEETZAKILLA!

October 29, 2009, 09:22 PM	#21
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Wood isn't exactly a "for all the ages" material either. And yet there are wooden parts for all kinds of old stuff still around, even on firearms. I have no doubt that a polymer pistol frame or rifle stock with proper care will last every bit as long as the stock on a 1903A1. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

October 27, 2009, 02:30 PM	#1
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Polymer in collection? Hi How much are polymer handguns valuable in collection from a long term point of view. I some how dont see them as collectables. For eg: I see more value in GP100 than HK USP CT from collection aspect. Whereas in reaility HK is worth more. I am not sure why, but when it comes to polymer, I see them purely utilitarian weapons and not for collection. What do you think?

October 27, 2009, 02:59 PM	#2
stevieboy Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2008 Posts: 1,695	In our society people collect EVERYTHING. What is today's utilitarian article may be tomorrow's valued antique. For that reason I wouldn't rule out the possibility that today's plastic framed semiautos may be tomorrow's collector's items. One thing that will undercut their value as collectibles in the short run, however, is the volume in which they're being churned out by manufacturers. A Glock isn't exactly a difficult item to come by these days. But, who knows how easily one will be able to find one in 50 years?

October 27, 2009, 03:01 PM	#3
jhco50 Junior member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Posts: 243	Keep in mind this is my opinion. I don't think polymer will last as long as steel and therefore, will probably won't be around in a hundred years or so, at least in perfect working order. Polymer is plastic, pure and simple. I would imagine it will become brittle at some point in the future, maybe a 100 years or so, but it will deteriorate in some fashion. Also, I see steel and wood making a comeback in some circles. I think people get tired of the Buck Rodgers looks of some polymer guns and yearn for something prettier they can enjoy and eventually pass down to their grandchildren. Plastic was supposed to keep prices down on the manufacturing level so that companies could hold lower prices. All it really did was widen the profit margin for manufacturers. So, to the question. No, I don't think polymer guns will hold their value like metal guns. This is not in all cases though. There will be exceptions.

October 27, 2009, 03:56 PM	#4
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,332	Polymer guns will never be worth what steel guns are worth....that's because, 1,000 years from now there will still be plenty of Glocks with their polymer frames in perfect condition. Most other guns, except for a few rare examples, will revert back to iron dust. I also predict that Global Warming will create massive amounts of new water, especially salt water, so anything made of metal is doomed.

October 27, 2009, 04:01 PM	#5
TMUSCLE1 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Posts: 174	I think certain polymer's will become more collectable as time goes by. Like someone said before with modern manufacturing processes they will be worth less because of the sheer number. Speaking of the future...I think new material frames will be part of the technological advancement in firearms. I don't know what they will think of next, maybe a better polymer? I just think that will be the new thing within the next decade.

October 27, 2009, 04:44 PM	#6
Daryl Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Posts: 2,350	Folks can collect what they want, and I'll do the same. I've ownd polymer, shot polymer, and don't care for polymer for my own uses, so I'll stick with metal. Which should make polymer lovers very happy, since it leaves more for them to buy. Daryl

October 27, 2009, 05:35 PM	#7
#18indycolts Junior member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Indpls Posts: 1,159	to each his own, I own nothing but poly...no need for steel.

October 27, 2009, 10:59 PM	#8
natjohnb Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 507	I'm the opposite^^^ No more poly in my collection

October 28, 2009, 12:29 AM	#9
jhco50 Junior member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Posts: 243	Quote "Polymer guns will never be worth what steel guns are worth....that's because, 1,000 years from now there will still be plenty of Glocks with their polymer frames in perfect condition. Most other guns, except for a few rare examples, will revert back to iron dust. I also predict that Global Warming will create massive amounts of new water, especially salt water, so anything made of metal is doomed." ======================================================================= Scans, I must be honest, that was funny. The reason I come to my conclusions is because I have experience with plastics and natural materials. I am a straight razor user and have a site on the internet that teaches the Art of using them. Many of us have and use razors that are a hundred or more years old. Some are less than a hundred, out of the 20th century. Natural materials last for the most part, but do show their age somewhat. That is just for information. Plastics, however may or may not make it. Cellulose (made from plants) especially can start deteriorating and will even ruin the blade of the razor with the gases it releases. Newer plastics, say the 1950's are oil based products and hold up a bit better, but will become brittle. Modern plastics are really tough and have there uses. For instance, Skoal tobacco comes in a plastic can and it is immensely better than the old cardboard cans. Modern plastics can really shine, but it is plastic. Polymer is just part of the scientific name for plastic. Plastic, by it's very nature will have problems somewhere down the line. Isn't Smith & Wesson having a problem with the dust shield warping out of shape after shooting awhile? At least I have read posts on it. As a rep from Glock once enumerated...when a gun with a plastic frame costs more than $200, it becomes polymer. I personally cannot trust polymer completely when it is around 50,000 psi of pressure. That is just one reason why I don't own one. That doesn't keep you from enjoying them...I just don't think they will all be in working condition in a 100 or so years.

October 28, 2009, 12:52 AM	#11
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	I have several polymer guns. H&K, Glock, and Kahr...but I consider them all tools and not collection pieces. They are not bought because they are beautiful or to pass down. They are bought to serve a purpose until replaced.

October 29, 2009, 02:12 PM	#18
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I don't want or own any polymer guns ..... and they have no value long term in my opinion ..... But Peetzakilla / still wins the debate ...( but its all Tupperware, in my opinion ) ....and I don't like it either...

October 29, 2009, 09:31 PM	#22
Blue Grass Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Posts: 398	I don't collect for future value. All my fire arms are working shooters. Is there any evidence that shows polymer guns will break down in a certain length of time? I've read that plastic water bottles will take 400 years to break down. If plastic guns will last that long,why should we care? We will break down and decompose a long time before that. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust. Plastic to jellied dinosaurs.

October 29, 2009, 10:07 PM	#23
Huntergirl Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 907	I do have some collectable guns, that I'm holding till retirement, then sell. Others are my shooters. The only poly I have is an XD45 and a Walther P99. They happen to be my current favorites.

October 29, 2009, 10:18 PM	#24
finrot Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Location: Stamford Ct. Posts: 94	I guess that the plastic water bottles must be a lot tougher than polymer frames since they are telling us that they will last 1000 years in a landfill.

October 29, 2009, 10:58 PM	#25
Teuthis Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 537	Technology is progressing too fast for much of anything to be considered valuable for its longevity in the distant future. When I was a photographer I had fine, Leica and Nikon cameras that are now obsolete, and of little or no value. Black powder weapons made in the black powder era are now obsolete, and have value because so few of them survived, and are associated with a special history of our nation. In not too many decades gunpowder will be obsolete and people will lose interest in the obsolete guns that shot bullets with it. Plastic pistols will have collectors value only if few of them survive. The material used in the frames of the "plastic" frames could last for many decades. But it is likely at some point to catastrophically fail on short notice, if its essential oils degenerate. Who knows when and how that will occur. It is inevitable. I believe that the older, more astutely and masterfully made Smith and Wesson revolvers will retain considerable value, as they are now no longer made. What Smith and Wesson is making now is certainly not nearly as well crafted. The obsolete calibers are already collectors items. Some Rugers and Colts will share that distinction; but overall I believe the mass-produced, modern "plastic" framed handguns will not be highly sought after. They are not designed to be classics or treasures. Like all modern weapons of the military and police, they are designed to be used up and replaced.