cast vs swaged

Jeff H · September 17, 2009, 07:16 PM

Being new to the whole lead bullet thing, I'm not really sure what the difference is and what the benefits/short comings of each type are. A little explanation would be helpful.

Thanks

**Unclenick** · September 17, 2009, 07:29 PM

Casting is melting lead or a lead alloy and pouring it into a mold to form a bullet.

Swaging is using a pressure ram to force a slug of lead wire into a forming die hard enough to force it to assume the shape of the die.

Swaging alloy has to be malleable enough to be formed in a die at practical pressures. There is a limit to how hard it can be, therefore. Cast bullets are not quite as dimensionally uniform as swaged bullets, but the mold lets you pour alloys without regard for their solidified hardness. Typically, cast bullet are therefore harder. Also, you can mold recessed rings into them for accepting larger quantities of lubricant than you can get the surface of a swaged bullet to accept. Taken together, these two things mean they can usually be driven to higher velocities. Swaging is more suited to high speed mass production than molding, so most lead bullets from large volume bullet makers are swaged, while cast bullets are more common among smaller volume and independent lead bullet makers.

Crosshair · September 17, 2009, 08:35 PM

Unclenick nailed it.

Swaging by design will produce very soft bullets. This is fine and in many cases desirable in lower pressure rounds, but this limits how hard they can be driven. No metal is melted.

Casting is where you physically melt metal and pour it into a mold. As mentioned before, this means you can use a wide variety of alloys that are MUCH harder than swaged.

It used to be the general rule that swaged bullets would be cheaper and more available than cast, but over the last decade or so it seems, commercially cast bullets like Oregon Trail and others have come on the scene and sell quality cast bullets at a very competitive price vs swaged bullets

jmorris · September 18, 2009, 12:18 AM

All of the above it true and I’ll add that a cast bullet has to cool in the mold where a swaged bullet is stamped out in the blink of an eye, thus a lot greater production rate.

Ozzieman · September 18, 2009, 08:58 AM

Although I agree with jmorris on the production rate,,,, the equipment for casting bullets is much simpler and cheaper.
Since I use lead bullets in every case that I load for handguns (7 total) and two of them are mag I have never used Swaged due to the hardness issue. Cast on the other hand I purchase from Penn bullets and I have pushed his hard cast in a 44 mag rifle up to 1400 fps and had little leading.
My recommendation is and always will be cast.
http://www.pennbullets.com/calibers.html

Unclenick nailed it. +1

TEDDY · September 18, 2009, 03:45 PM

the only swaged bullet I use is the hornady HBWC because of my S&W 52.
the S&W mod 10 bull gets cast wc from lyman 4 cavity.I have used the hoenady in the 10 when shooting bullseye because it has a bomar rib and target trigger.

MADISON · September 18, 2009, 07:36 PM

Swaged must be soft[er] because they are made in a pressing process.

Cast bullets are harder and can be made as hard as you have the metal to make them.

**Unclenick** · September 19, 2009, 02:47 AM

Despite the above, there are occasions where the swaged bullets seem preferable. My old 3" Charter Bulldog will keep groups under 2" at 25 yards shooting the 240 grain Hornady swaged SWC over 2.9 to 3.9 grains of Bullseye powder. This is target and even sub-target velocity, but for that application the uniformity of the bullets outweighs the disadvantage of their softness. Also, with the pressures as low as those loads produce, a soft bullet obturates the bore more easily to help avoid leading due to gas bypass.

**Mike Irwin** · September 19, 2009, 09:10 AM

I've never had any success in using swaged bullets at anything other than the lowest velocities.

I simply quit using them because they didn't allow me to get where I wanted and if I tried, would lead the hell out of my bore.

Edward429451 · September 19, 2009, 03:09 PM

What they said is true for swaged lead bullets but soft lead can be swaged into jackets also for some very premium bullets. I swage 451 cal only and because of the precise weight control the bullets shoot as match bullets.
Very cool stuff.

September 17, 2009, 07:16 PM	#1
Jeff H Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 176	cast vs swaged Being new to the whole lead bullet thing, I'm not really sure what the difference is and what the benefits/short comings of each type are. A little explanation would be helpful. Thanks

September 17, 2009, 07:29 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,733	Casting is melting lead or a lead alloy and pouring it into a mold to form a bullet. Swaging is using a pressure ram to force a slug of lead wire into a forming die hard enough to force it to assume the shape of the die. Swaging alloy has to be malleable enough to be formed in a die at practical pressures. There is a limit to how hard it can be, therefore. Cast bullets are not quite as dimensionally uniform as swaged bullets, but the mold lets you pour alloys without regard for their solidified hardness. Typically, cast bullet are therefore harder. Also, you can mold recessed rings into them for accepting larger quantities of lubricant than you can get the surface of a swaged bullet to accept. Taken together, these two things mean they can usually be driven to higher velocities. Swaging is more suited to high speed mass production than molding, so most lead bullets from large volume bullet makers are swaged, while cast bullets are more common among smaller volume and independent lead bullet makers. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 17, 2009, 08:35 PM	#3
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Unclenick nailed it. Swaging by design will produce very soft bullets. This is fine and in many cases desirable in lower pressure rounds, but this limits how hard they can be driven. No metal is melted. Casting is where you physically melt metal and pour it into a mold. As mentioned before, this means you can use a wide variety of alloys that are MUCH harder than swaged. It used to be the general rule that swaged bullets would be cheaper and more available than cast, but over the last decade or so it seems, commercially cast bullets like Oregon Trail and others have come on the scene and sell quality cast bullets at a very competitive price vs swaged bullets __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

September 18, 2009, 03:45 PM	#6
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	swaged the only swaged bullet I use is the hornady HBWC because of my S&W 52. the S&W mod 10 bull gets cast wc from lyman 4 cavity.I have used the hoenady in the 10 when shooting bullseye because it has a bomar rib and target trigger.

September 18, 2009, 07:36 PM	#7
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	cast vs swaged Swaged must be soft[er] because they are made in a pressing process. Cast bullets are harder and can be made as hard as you have the metal to make them.

September 18, 2009, 12:18 AM	#4
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	All of the above it true and I’ll add that a cast bullet has to cool in the mold where a swaged bullet is stamped out in the blink of an eye, thus a lot greater production rate.

September 18, 2009, 08:58 AM	#5
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Although I agree with jmorris on the production rate,,,, the equipment for casting bullets is much simpler and cheaper. Since I use lead bullets in every case that I load for handguns (7 total) and two of them are mag I have never used Swaged due to the hardness issue. Cast on the other hand I purchase from Penn bullets and I have pushed his hard cast in a 44 mag rifle up to 1400 fps and had little leading. My recommendation is and always will be cast. http://www.pennbullets.com/calibers.html Unclenick nailed it. +1

September 19, 2009, 02:47 AM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,733	Despite the above, there are occasions where the swaged bullets seem preferable. My old 3" Charter Bulldog will keep groups under 2" at 25 yards shooting the 240 grain Hornady swaged SWC over 2.9 to 3.9 grains of Bullseye powder. This is target and even sub-target velocity, but for that application the uniformity of the bullets outweighs the disadvantage of their softness. Also, with the pressures as low as those loads produce, a soft bullet obturates the bore more easily to help avoid leading due to gas bypass. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 19, 2009, 09:10 AM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,642	I've never had any success in using swaged bullets at anything other than the lowest velocities. I simply quit using them because they didn't allow me to get where I wanted and if I tried, would lead the hell out of my bore. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 19, 2009, 03:09 PM	#10
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	What they said is true for swaged lead bullets but soft lead can be swaged into jackets also for some very premium bullets. I swage 451 cal only and because of the precise weight control the bullets shoot as match bullets. Very cool stuff.