Is it the load?

kenfa03 · September 2, 2009, 11:37 PM

1st shot out of cold barrel 1.5" high next 2 in bull last 3 days. Help?

Gbro · September 2, 2009, 11:42 PM

Need more data.
caliber, rifle, load data, range distance, rifle cleaned before each group, was the barrel oiled???? was the oil swabbed out prior to 1st shot???

kenfa03 · September 2, 2009, 11:56 PM

Rem BDL 270. barrel not cleaned. All groups after 1st are in the same area. just the first shot from cold barrel thats high, or the rest are low.

jamaica · September 3, 2009, 12:13 AM

I had an ADL that did that. I took it out of the stock, then put it back in and tightened the screws. It stopped walking. Weird, I know, but it was good after that.

Scorch · September 3, 2009, 01:14 AM

Often the first shot out of a cleaned barrel will be off. If it concerns you, remember to take a fouling shot before you start shooting.

wpsdlrg · September 3, 2009, 06:12 PM

I agree with Scorch. Your barrel probably needs a fouling shot or two.

kenfa03 · September 3, 2009, 06:39 PM

It hasn't been cleaned in about 30 shots.

LHB1 · September 3, 2009, 07:46 PM

Possibly barrel bedding or even barrel dimensional variation as barrel gets hot. Have heard that barrels which are "straightened" during barrel making process can warp slightly when they heat up from firing. I can not confirm or deny this from personal experience.

James R. Burke · September 4, 2009, 04:39 PM

Like Jamacia said you might take it out of the stock, and retighten. I also would try cleaning in between sessions, and see what happens. With a clean barrel you do need that fouling shot or two. It might be something you will have to live with. So you can adjust when target shooting, and when hunting sight in with the cold barrel, knowing your first shot is going to be right on, then there going to go low on you. Or leave it dead on and know hunting it is going to throw the first one high. I have a old 8mm that does the same thing. Tryed everything with it. I have it now so the first shot is dead on, then it is going to go low after that. But I very seldom use it anymore. It is fairly accurate but like I said that first cold shot will go high with it. Hope you can get yours correct. I am sure lots of folks on here will give you some better advice so you get it taken care of. Good luck.

.284 · September 4, 2009, 08:04 PM

Kenfa03,
Do you reload? This is the reloading area of TFL. Not trying to be a jerk but, what are you shooting? If you use factory ammo that's fine. If your are reloading, maybe you just haven't found the right load. Are you having the same results regardless of what grain bullet, powder charge, type of powder, ans so on? Are you shooting off a quality rest like a Cadwell Lead Sled? Maybe it's the rifle....maybe not. Need to have more info.

Blue · September 4, 2009, 11:39 PM

Knowing POI for each shot in a string is part of marksmanship. In your case if you want the bull - aim 1.5 lower. Then adjust the next shot to match where your weapon will put it.

Got to know your weapon. If it was me -- all three would be Bull.

One thing though, I never go 30 without cleaning. Cleaning enhances predictability - unless, of course, you have a lemon. I've had a few lemons and it can be very frustrating. I sell them to hunters. A lemon for me is a 600 yard group two inches larger than my non- lemon M40 clones. Good enough for hunting though. Several very satisfied "hunter" customers.

Work on your methods and read here (TFL) for some very good "best practices".

Going 30 between cleanings is not a "best practice".

snuffy · September 5, 2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

One thing though, I never go 30 without cleaning. Cleaning enhances predictability - unless, of course, you have a lemon. I've had a few lemons and it can be very frustrating. I sell them to hunters. A lemon for me is a 600 yard group two inches larger than my non- lemon M40 clones. Good enough for hunting though. Several very satisfied "hunter" customers.

Work on your methods and read here (TFL) for some very good "best practices".

Going 30 between cleanings is not a "best practice".

I sometimes go a whole summer without cleaning. Several hundred shots. Making all encompassing statements leads to disagreements. More rifles have been ruined by cleaning,(well,, improper cleaning), than by leaving them the heck alone.

Of course it depends a lot on the type of firearm. I once had an 06 that copper fouled terribly in 5 shots. It had to be cleaned often. 10 rounds of fine grit firelapping cured that!

Modern smokeless powders do not foul enough to be worried about corrosion, or causing bad accuracy. Unless they copper foul, then accuracy will go south quickly.

koolminx · September 5, 2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

POI
Knowing POI for each shot in a string is part of marksmanship. In your case if you want the bull - aim 1.5 lower. Then adjust the next shot to match where your weapon will put it.

Got to know your weapon. If it was me -- all three would be Bull.

One thing though, I never go 30 without cleaning. Cleaning enhances predictability - unless, of course, you have a lemon. I've had a few lemons and it can be very frustrating. I sell them to hunters. A lemon for me is a 600 yard group two inches larger than my non- lemon M40 clones. Good enough for hunting though. Several very satisfied "hunter" customers.

Work on your methods and read here (TFL) for some very good "best practices".

Going 30 between cleanings is not a "best practice".

I think I need to come watch you shoot! I really suck at 600 yards! I don't even know if some of my rounds get that far....

castnblast · September 5, 2009, 05:22 PM

It may be your load. I had an issue with my 22-250. Sort of similar. We chrono'd the shots, and discovered as the barrel heated, it lost velocity with each shot, thus giving crappy groups. I've changed powder and I'm going to go to the range to test them. I got really good results from 53 grs. of H4350 pushing a 130 btsp around 2881. Very little change in velocity = tight groups. If you have a chrono, or could borrow one, I'd recomend it. You may be getting the same issue. Remember, it's the first shot that counts when hunting, so you'll want it on. Plus, it's going to be colder when you pull the trigger in November. May want to look at your powder, but don't go changing until you put it on a chrono to see if that is an issue or not. My
'250 was dropping by over 50fps per shot in a 3 shot group, thus giving me goofy patterns. The powder was Benchmark.

September 2, 2009, 11:37 PM	#1
kenfa03 Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Posts: 71	Is it the load? 1st shot out of cold barrel 1.5" high next 2 in bull last 3 days. Help?

September 2, 2009, 11:42 PM	#2
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	Need more data. caliber, rifle, load data, range distance, rifle cleaned before each group, was the barrel oiled???? was the oil swabbed out prior to 1st shot??? __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

September 3, 2009, 01:14 AM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,249	Often the first shot out of a cleaned barrel will be off. If it concerns you, remember to take a fouling shot before you start shooting. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 4, 2009, 11:39 PM	#11
Blue Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2009 Posts: 113	POI Knowing POI for each shot in a string is part of marksmanship. In your case if you want the bull - aim 1.5 lower. Then adjust the next shot to match where your weapon will put it. Got to know your weapon. If it was me -- all three would be Bull. One thing though, I never go 30 without cleaning. Cleaning enhances predictability - unless, of course, you have a lemon. I've had a few lemons and it can be very frustrating. I sell them to hunters. A lemon for me is a 600 yard group two inches larger than my non- lemon M40 clones. Good enough for hunting though. Several very satisfied "hunter" customers. Work on your methods and read here (TFL) for some very good "best practices". Going 30 between cleanings is not a "best practice".

September 2, 2009, 11:56 PM	#3
kenfa03 Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Posts: 71	Rem BDL 270. barrel not cleaned. All groups after 1st are in the same area. just the first shot from cold barrel thats high, or the rest are low.

September 3, 2009, 12:13 AM	#4
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	I had an ADL that did that. I took it out of the stock, then put it back in and tightened the screws. It stopped walking. Weird, I know, but it was good after that.

September 3, 2009, 06:12 PM	#6
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	I agree with Scorch. Your barrel probably needs a fouling shot or two.

September 3, 2009, 06:39 PM	#7
kenfa03 Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Posts: 71	It hasn't been cleaned in about 30 shots.

September 3, 2009, 07:46 PM	#8
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Possibly barrel bedding or even barrel dimensional variation as barrel gets hot. Have heard that barrels which are "straightened" during barrel making process can warp slightly when they heat up from firing. I can not confirm or deny this from personal experience.

September 4, 2009, 04:39 PM	#9
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	Like Jamacia said you might take it out of the stock, and retighten. I also would try cleaning in between sessions, and see what happens. With a clean barrel you do need that fouling shot or two. It might be something you will have to live with. So you can adjust when target shooting, and when hunting sight in with the cold barrel, knowing your first shot is going to be right on, then there going to go low on you. Or leave it dead on and know hunting it is going to throw the first one high. I have a old 8mm that does the same thing. Tryed everything with it. I have it now so the first shot is dead on, then it is going to go low after that. But I very seldom use it anymore. It is fairly accurate but like I said that first cold shot will go high with it. Hope you can get yours correct. I am sure lots of folks on here will give you some better advice so you get it taken care of. Good luck.

September 4, 2009, 08:04 PM	#10
.284 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2009 Location: davison, michigan Posts: 665	Kenfa03, Do you reload? This is the reloading area of TFL. Not trying to be a jerk but, what are you shooting? If you use factory ammo that's fine. If your are reloading, maybe you just haven't found the right load. Are you having the same results regardless of what grain bullet, powder charge, type of powder, ans so on? Are you shooting off a quality rest like a Cadwell Lead Sled? Maybe it's the rifle....maybe not. Need to have more info.

September 5, 2009, 05:22 PM	#14
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	It may be your load. I had an issue with my 22-250. Sort of similar. We chrono'd the shots, and discovered as the barrel heated, it lost velocity with each shot, thus giving crappy groups. I've changed powder and I'm going to go to the range to test them. I got really good results from 53 grs. of H4350 pushing a 130 btsp around 2881. Very little change in velocity = tight groups. If you have a chrono, or could borrow one, I'd recomend it. You may be getting the same issue. Remember, it's the first shot that counts when hunting, so you'll want it on. Plus, it's going to be colder when you pull the trigger in November. May want to look at your powder, but don't go changing until you put it on a chrono to see if that is an issue or not. My '250 was dropping by over 50fps per shot in a 3 shot group, thus giving me goofy patterns. The powder was Benchmark.